Hardening sole - horse has been given 50-50 chance of survival!

Not a very scientific response from me but iodine alone WILL harden the foot; you do not "need" the sugar as stated in a previous post. To harden (not thicken) the sole pack it with thoroughly wrung out iodine swabs and dress. I used nappies and duct tape with the iodine solution the colour of weak tea.

A previous practice told me to use sugar iodine mix but the frog never truly hardened; current vet explained why but I can't figure out how to convey it on here! He instructed the use of the diluted iodine swabs and it worked. The foot was like solid fibreglass it was so hard. I know this also isn't ideal but I have a specific horse with a specific condition and under guidance from vet and trimmer.

Re your mare. Ideally you want to thicken the sole not harden it. To do this the foot requires stimulation. I know you said that your mare can't cope with out shoes but if you take a step back that should set off alarm bells. We are so conditioned that it's hard (and scary) to think and look outside of the box at times.

So she's shod for protection... shoes are 1/4" thick rims; at best these "protect" the sole from stones and gravel <1/4" but what about everything else that will be in contact with her extremely sensitive sole? In this situation hoof boots with varying pads will provide complete protection and gentle stimulation allowing her comfy steps and it's those steps that will enable the sole to develop.

I think it's a condition of us horse owners to keep doing the same thing expecting different results. It's bad farriery that has put your mare in this position and even the best farriery can't give or grow a healthy foot.

I'm guessing that you're probably dismissing this bf stuff as nonsense that's maybe ok for cobs and ponies but not horses like yours who does need shoes. I thought the same, if not worse, as my sensitive TB mare NEEDED shoes and couldn't cope without them. Alarm bells should have been going off but I had, what I believed at the time to be, good vets and I had a good regular shoeing regime.

Unfortunately it took me losing that mare and some verbal abuse from a BFer on here before I clicked on. Have a read of Lucy Priory's blog/website; it was on there that my first light bulb switched on that a horse who is not sound without shoes is not sound.

Read Rockley blog

Read the thousands of BF posts in this section of the forum. Read all the users who said their horses couldn't and now they are!

Pete Ramey's website and books

Feet First book (although disregard the info 're feeding seaweed -don't).

Perhaps speak to a non horsey person as they can often see things logically whereas we are so conditioned that sometimes we can't see the wood from the trees.

For another viewpoint read about barefoot running and what being barefoot is doing for humans; some of the points are transferable.

I'd imagine that most BF advocates taking the time to reply are doing so because they've been where you are and know the heartbreak ing distress and anguish. To be out of options and have the "experts" tell you what you should do and to suggest anything different is blown out of the water. If things didn't break we wouldn't need to look elsewhere for answers and sometimes it takes until you are at a "nothing to lose" point. Rockley used to get horses who'd been through vets, shoeing, pads, tildren, etc etc and nothing had worked so with nothing to lose why not try barefoot. The success rate is unbelievable. Now horses are going there as a first option. You can do it at home and it does take work but it is doable.

I really wish you and your mare the very best
 
TPO said:
Not a very scientific response from me but iodine alone WILL harden the foot; you do not "need" the sugar as stated in a previous post. To harden (not thicken) the sole pack it with thoroughly wrung out iodine swabs and dress. I used nappies and duct tape with the iodine solution the colour of weak tea.

A previous practice told me to use sugar iodine mix but the frog never truly hardened; current vet explained why but I can't figure out how to convey it on here! He instructed the use of the diluted iodine swabs and it worked. The foot was like solid fibreglass it was so hard. I know this also isn't ideal but I have a specific horse with a specific condition and under guidance from vet and trimmer.

Re your mare. Ideally you want to thicken the sole not harden it. To do this the foot requires stimulation. I know you said that your mare can't cope with out shoes but if you take a step back that should set off alarm bells. We are so conditioned that it's hard (and scary) to think and look outside of the box at times.

So she's shod for protection... shoes are 1/4" thick rims; at best these "protect" the sole from stones and gravel <1/4" but what about everything else that will be in contact with her extremely sensitive sole? In this situation hoof boots with varying pads will provide complete protection and gentle stimulation allowing her comfy steps and it's those steps that will enable the sole to develop.

I think it's a condition of us horse owners to keep doing the same thing expecting different results. It's bad farriery that has put your mare in this position and even the best farriery can't give or grow a healthy foot.

I'm guessing that you're probably dismissing this bf stuff as nonsense that's maybe ok for cobs and ponies but not horses like yours who does need shoes. I thought the same, if not worse, as my sensitive TB mare NEEDED shoes and couldn't cope without them. Alarm bells should have been going off but I had, what I believed at the time to be, good vets and I had a good regular shoeing regime.

Unfortunately it took me losing that mare and some verbal abuse from a BFer on here before I clicked on. Have a read of Lucy Priory's blog/website; it was on there that my first light bulb switched on that a horse who is not sound without shoes is not sound.

Read Rockley blog

Read the thousands of BF posts in this section of the forum. Read all the users who said their horses couldn't and now they are!

Pete Ramey's website and books

Feet First book (although disregard the info 're feeding seaweed -don't).

Perhaps speak to a non horsey person as they can often see things logically whereas we are so conditioned that sometimes we can't see the wood from the trees.

For another viewpoint read about barefoot running and what being barefoot is doing for humans; some of the points are transferable.

I'd imagine that most BF advocates taking the time to reply are doing so because they've been where you are and know the heartbreak ing distress and anguish. To be out of options and have the "experts" tell you what you should do and to suggest anything different is blown out of the water. If things didn't break we wouldn't need to look elsewhere for answers and sometimes it takes until you are at a "nothing to lose" point. Rockley used to get horses who'd been through vets, shoeing, pads, tildren, etc etc and nothing had worked so with nothing to lose why not try barefoot. The success rate is unbelievable. Now horses are going there as a first option. You can do it at home and it does take work but it is doable.

I really wish you and your mare the very best
Click to expand...

What a great post! I hope the OP takes everything you say on board
 
Fourthed!

To back up what TPO says my horse who had "typical tb feet" and was lame in shoes due to flat feet and VERY thin soles is now successfully barefoot. 1yr after her shoes came off she was hunting barefoot.

The first vet who saw her said she wouldn't be able to leave her deep shavings bed without heart bars. Two weeks later she trotted up sound on concrete and sand in hoofboots and comfort pads (as advised by Lucy Priory on here). It took a while for her to be comfortable without the boots but the minute she got them on she wasn't just sound she was moving better than ever!

I overhauled her diet with advice from oberon on here which helped her build the strong feet she needed to come out of the boots.

Buying some cheap hoofboots and pads was honestly the best thing I ever did for my horse. They cost £75 a pair for the boots and under £10 for the pads. The boots are still wearable now and saved me a fortune in remedial farriery.

My vet was gobsmacked (she hadn't seen them before) although I subsequently changed to a more supportive vet at the same practice. My farrier has been totally supportive despite the effects on his profits, in fact he is training as a BF trimmer too.

Please at least look at the sources TPO mentions. It may well save your horse's life!
 
Another who fully believes in what TPO says, my TBxID had rubbish feet, cracked, split and walked like he had a broken leg if a shoe fell off.

Now, he's unshod, a change of diet and a farrier who was open to options have my lad sound, his feet no longer crack or split, they look better than ever, and he walks just fine on stoney ground.
 
They are but sometimes I think there is nothing better than hearing from someone who was sceptical and has been there. As the owner of a native you would presume he would have good enough feet to do it so I don't ever feel like I'm in the position to push it as a suggestion for some other breeds.
 
OLDGREYMARE said:
Your vet should email the xrays to you without argument,then you can post them on the facebook site.
Click to expand...


Actually the x rays are the copyright of the vet, and although they will always share with a second opinion vet, they will not always release to the client, especially not If they think they are going to be used to ask non vets for their opinion on Facebook.
 
ester said:
They are but sometimes I think there is nothing better than hearing from someone who was sceptical and has been there. As the owner of a native you would presume he would have good enough feet to do it so I don't ever feel like I'm in the position to push it as a suggestion for some other breeds.
Click to expand...

If anyone can be bothered searching my previous posts my story/journey/whatever is on here. I've got to live with the guilt but having made the mistakes and suffered the losses if anyone can avoid the same by getting some benefit from my tale of woe then it's not in vain.

The information, and proof, is there for anyone to see but you have to want to know and be receptive to it. If BF is a complete no and that door is shut then nothing anyone on here posts will change that (although CPT done a good job on me!!). You can only do what you can do with what you know and what is available at the time.

I really hope OP and mare get a happy ending regardless of the path they pursue.
 
Hi I have a flat footed ex race horse and he has been bare foot since April last year due to when he is shod it restricts the the blood supply to the point that he does not grow any foot so after 2 sets of shoes can not be shod - vicious circle!!
I have found that a mixture of hoof boots and building him up gradually has worked really well allong with changing the feeding to Simple Systems feeds, expensive remedial farriery (including a couple of sets of glue on shoes) and a new farrier. His feet are now fantastic shape, I now have heels and concave soles with a really good rim round the edge of the hoof.
My only problem is trying to keep the feet good with all the wet weather! Added to the lack of schooling facilities and a all weather turn out this is a bit of a problem, so I am having to go back to hoof boots again having not needed them for months!

So keep going it can work!
 
TPO said:
Not a very scientific response from me but iodine alone WILL harden the foot; you do not "need" the sugar as stated in a previous post. To harden (not thicken) the sole pack it with thoroughly wrung out iodine swabs and dress. I used nappies and duct tape with the iodine solution the colour of weak tea.

A previous practice told me to use sugar iodine mix but the frog never truly hardened; current vet explained why but I can't figure out how to convey it on here! He instructed the use of the diluted iodine swabs and it worked. The foot was like solid fibreglass it was so hard. I know this also isn't ideal but I have a specific horse with a specific condition and under guidance from vet and trimmer.

Re your mare. Ideally you want to thicken the sole not harden it. To do this the foot requires stimulation. I know you said that your mare can't cope with out shoes but if you take a step back that should set off alarm bells. We are so conditioned that it's hard (and scary) to think and look outside of the box at times.

So she's shod for protection... shoes are 1/4" thick rims; at best these "protect" the sole from stones and gravel <1/4" but what about everything else that will be in contact with her extremely sensitive sole? In this situation hoof boots with varying pads will provide complete protection and gentle stimulation allowing her comfy steps and it's those steps that will enable the sole to develop.

I think it's a condition of us horse owners to keep doing the same thing expecting different results. It's bad farriery that has put your mare in this position and even the best farriery can't give or grow a healthy foot.

I'm guessing that you're probably dismissing this bf stuff as nonsense that's maybe ok for cobs and ponies but not horses like yours who does need shoes. I thought the same, if not worse, as my sensitive TB mare NEEDED shoes and couldn't cope without them. Alarm bells should have been going off but I had, what I believed at the time to be, good vets and I had a good regular shoeing regime.

Unfortunately it took me losing that mare and some verbal abuse from a BFer on here before I clicked on. Have a read of Lucy Priory's blog/website; it was on there that my first light bulb switched on that a horse who is not sound without shoes is not sound.

Read Rockley blog

Read the thousands of BF posts in this section of the forum. Read all the users who said their horses couldn't and now they are!

Pete Ramey's website and books

Feet First book (although disregard the info 're feeding seaweed -don't).

Perhaps speak to a non horsey person as they can often see things logically whereas we are so conditioned that sometimes we can't see the wood from the trees.

For another viewpoint read about barefoot running and what being barefoot is doing for humans; some of the points are transferable.

I'd imagine that most BF advocates taking the time to reply are doing so because they've been where you are and know the heartbreak ing distress and anguish. To be out of options and have the "experts" tell you what you should do and to suggest anything different is blown out of the water. If things didn't break we wouldn't need to look elsewhere for answers and sometimes it takes until you are at a "nothing to lose" point. Rockley used to get horses who'd been through vets, shoeing, pads, tildren, etc etc and nothing had worked so with nothing to lose why not try barefoot. The success rate is unbelievable. Now horses are going there as a first option. You can do it at home and it does take work but it is doable.

I really wish you and your mare the very best
Click to expand...
Great post.

I've only read to page 7 and am no PPID (Cushings) expert but it may well be a big factor in the thin soles. Diet is going to be crucial so I recommend you contact Forage Plus for diet advice and join the FB group suggested. There are a multitude of pad and boot combinations that can help with comfort, protection and stimulation so find someone experienced with boot and padding systems if possible.

In my understanding sole thickness is inextricably linked to lamina health (good attachment) and sole corium health which are both linked to appropriate diet.
Pete Ramey has a good article on sole.
 
Thank you for all your replies. Two weeks on from her visit to Newmarket, our mare is virtually sound. She is looking absolutely amazing, too! Only problem is, we've been told to turn her out in the arena, not our waterlogged paddocks, but she chews the fences so we've had to stick a grazing muzzle on her, which sends her into a mega sulk! Vet is coming out to see her next week. She's now on Happy Hoof, Fast Fibre, Blue Chip Lami Light, Global Herbs Rebuilder, Formula 4 Feet plus OH's homeopathic stuff (he's a homeopath). And, of course, we're still using the sugar and iodine mixture on her soles every day. Fingers crossed for her, please!
 
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ImmyS said:
What's her diet, management, turnout, grazing like? Putting chemical products on her hooves won't help.
Click to expand...

Actually I disagree, there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting chemical products on the hoof to harden it, it will help and it will stop the poor mare feeling pain. It may not be a long term solution, but in the immediate future it's exactly what I would do, op keratex hoof hardener is a fantastic product. Also I second getting in touch with rockley.
 
keeperscottage said:
Wagtail, she had Imprint shoes fitted when she had laminitis over a year ago - she really struggled in them and slipped with every step! The shoes fitted now are lightweight, just a few nails plus glue. She's currently sound, by the way.
Click to expand...

No, she is not currently sound op, she has metal shoes on masking her unsoundness, there is a huge difference, furthermore, reading through this I have bitten my tongue until now... There is NO SUCH THING as typical TB flat feet. At this moment in time, I'm not to sure I'd be taking the poor girl completely barefoot, but I sure as hell wouldn't be driving nails into her hooves. I'd be looking at hardening the soles with a topical treatment, overhauling the diet and using boots.
 
Keratex hoof hardener contains a well known carcinogenic (Formalin/Formaldehyde), not something to paint on living tissue IMO.

ETA - I do agree with QB in regards to boots being an option for this horse. I also can't stand the 'typical TB feet' thing. Generally it is code for unhealthy (often shoe sick) hooves, which of course can occur in any breed. Also the phrase implies that TB's are doomed to having crappy hooves - this is not true.
 
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keeperscottage said:
Thank you for all your replies. Two weeks on from her visit to Newmarket, our mare is virtually sound. She is looking absolutely amazing, too! Only problem is, we've been told to turn her out in the arena, not our waterlogged paddocks, but she chews the fences so we've had to stick a grazing muzzle on her, which sends her into a mega sulk! Vet is coming out to see her next week. She's now on Happy Hoof, Fast Fibre, Blue Chip Lami Light, Global Herbs Rebuilder, Formula 4 Feet plus OH's homeopathic stuff (he's a homeopath). And, of course, we're still using the sugar and iodine mixture on her soles every day. Fingers crossed for her, please!
Click to expand...

For gods sake, ditch the sodding happy hoof!!!
 
photo.php


There's a new product called Horse-crocz. It can be used to cover a poultice so the horse can be turned out. Could it be used to offer some support?

http://www.horsecrocz.co.uk
 
Faracat said:
Keratex hoof hardener contains a well known carcinogenic (Formalin/Formaldehyde), not something to paint on living tissue IMO.
Click to expand...

Faracat, did you know that if you pour in boiling water to coffee granules it turns carcinogenic, that tuna fish in brine is considered to have carcinogenic properties, as is the 'olivio' type of spreads, so many things have carcinogenic properties, but I reckon for a horse of that age to have it painted on the soles of its feet for a short term solution well sometimes you have to weigh up your options, and to me it would be no contest.
 
Keeper I feel for you and think you've been given good advice here. My now 15 yo mare, also TB, was screwed up royally by an ex farrier that pretty much butchered her on a trim while heavily pregnant. That was 4 years ago. We had to pad her and it was another 2 months before we could put shoes on. Every attempt we had at taking the shoes off she was crippled. She has now been back to shoeless for just under a year. Obviously not as bad as your mare but seeing her foot healthy again is a thrill. Not saying your mare has to go bare but that there is hope. I really thought she would have to stay in shoes no matter how hard we tried to get her right. She now has some concavity and her sole is hard. Before so thin and on the ground.

Good luck
terri
 
harveysmom said:
keretex hoof hardener, it really works
Click to expand...

I used this on my TB as he had to have his shoes removed and it worked wonders!

My current horse suffers with girth galls and i used surgical spirit on those to harden the skin, but not when there is any broken skin as it would sting like mad!
 
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