Harness question

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dragonflys

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Will a harness and lead on a dog, instead of a collar and lead, teach the dog not to pull?

I have read different things about harness but am pulling my hair out with a dog that despite my best efforts still pulls like a train.
Maybe best efforts have been wrong :(
 
Nope. Look at huskies, why do you think that they run in harness? Because it helps them pull harder.

Get yourself a good leather training lead, a half check collar and go back to square one. If it takes you weeks of stopping and starting, it will be worth it.

What are you using now, and how are you trying to stop it?
Isn't she a collie or am I confusing you with someone else?
Have you considered a training class?
 
No, a harness goes around the strongest part of a dog and will basically reward them for pulling more.

I had great success with a halti, followed by a slip/choke lead, but if you use a tool like that then you still have to have a consisent approach.

*whistles for CC to copy-paste latest loose-leash walking guide* :p
 
Edited a bit as it was specific to the OP

The best way to stop pulling is to gain focus under distraction and make yourself more attractive than everything else
This begins at home and in the garden and can be a long process. IMO all young dogs should be focus trained as it makes everything else so much easier.

Obviously for dogs with certain drives, that is more difficult.

If it means witholding normal feeds and feeding from your pocket, so be it.

Bear in mind a lot of dogs naturally pull against restriction, IE a lead, they do not know it is attached to you, they just feel a force pulling them backwards and they want to escape it.
They also have four legs as opposed to two and want to get somewhere faster than you can go and that sounds like the issue here, youthful exhuberance at the start of a walk.

Harnesses and flat collars allow the dog to use their weight against you. We use both for tracking and protection because it actually allows the dog more freedom and so they can work remotely.

Try also stopping dead, turning in circles, so she learns, the more I pull, the less and less further ahead I go, if I return to her side, I get praise and a treat. it's further and faster she wants to go when she pulls, so pulling = nowhere, walking on a loose line, progress, although not as fast as she would like it to be.

I remember PM'ing Cayla in floods of tears about B, who at that time was pulling through an 'anti-pull' harness (and in pain, he ballsed up my back) worrying that I was hurting HIM (hahahaha!).

I got the slip lead out went up the back lane with him and spent about a week with him, every day, with a bloody MP3 player on to stop myself going mad marching up to the top of the hill and back down again, you pull, you go nowhere or backwards, you stay with me, awesome times.
I looked like a berk but it worked.

He now walks mostly on a long, loose line, I still do heelwork with him sporadically through the walk, and if there are cars, bikes, people passing (he sometimes comes to heel without being asked in that instance, because he knows I will make him anyway) and even on a loose line he will often come back and check in with me and he is praised and told he is a good boy every time.

I also think there is a big bonus in teaching the dog the difference between heel/close and hup-hup (pull your fat ma up the hill) and 'free' and OK! let's go.
So pulling could become like a command, although I can't see the attraction in a smaller dog in a flat area.

It can be hard work but get it straight in your own head, don't be wishy-washy, be consistent.
I used to think B was 'challenging' me, he wasn't, I was just inconsistent, I was complaining about his pulling and admonishing him, but then afterwards, just let him haul me about again, because it was the easy option, so, the more he pulled, the further he got, but I kept telling him 'no' - his head was up his backside!

Whole thread:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=400510
 
Hi
Thanks for all replies.
Yes she is a collie, we are going to training classes but i still seem to be getting no where with this. Everything else she is very good. Apart from wanting to chase cars.... :(

I thought that harnesses would do that but other people had said 'no, no they're great' etc.
I just use a collar and lead atm, just a bog standard one. She is just over 5 months old so i didnt know if anything else would be appropriate at that age.
I will arm myself with Ipod and a hill and march up and down with fingers crossed, and stop and start in the garden.

Thanks again :)
 
No worries.

I'd get yourself a good snug fitting half-check or martingale collar and as mentioned, a leather lead.

She sounds like she will be a very smart girlie, going to copy and paste again from another post re focus training, which will help with the car-chasing.

"You need to work on focus at home, in the garden, and then take it outside. She is still of a good age to learn this - if she wants something, she has to be looking at and listening to you - IE her dinner, treat, a toy, if she wants in, or out - she must be looking at you and the longer you hold her gaze, the bigger the reward."

You can use a command like 'watch' or 'look'. If you're training this, do it on an empty stomach so she has to work for her food, you can pour some of her kibble in your pocket so her meal comes from you, and not a bowl. IE you, and paying attention to you = food.

See all those collies that do obedience and gaze up at their owners? That's focus, but it starts out at home, when you're pottering in the kitchen, when you're watching the soaps, give her the 'watch' command whenever you have a spare moment and reward her with a treat or praise.
Then out in the garden, then in the park, then out on walks.

Basically she will learn, all good things come from looking at you, if she looks or tries to chase cars, she gets nowt, or even a good strong lead-pop, don't be afraid to hurt her - if she goes under the wheels of a car, she will hurt a lot more.
Then when she looks back to you for guidance - praise and reward.

In time I would actually go to a busy road and just stand there for as long as it takes (tie her to a fence or lamp-post for extra security, if you like, but still hold onto the lead as well) and the more she learns to ignore the cars, the better the praise and reward.
 
OP
My 6 month old puppy pulls like a train, we got her a harness becasue OH is soft and thought she was hurting herself straining against her collar. I have somehow managed to injure my hand / arm so hanging onto her was a nono. We bought her a slip lead last week, she gets a tug and 'heel' when she starts to pull. When she ignores me (Most of the time!) we stop untill she sits next to me calmly, if she still does in we just do hundereds of circles untill she gets the idea.

It's a very slow process but she eventually gets the idea and she is ALWAYS better after a huge run.

I treat her pulling the same way I treat a horse that jogs. (May help if you are horsey!) We move forward calmly or not at all.
 
Thanks again for replies.
Please can i ask why a leather lead?
And is 5 months ok for a martingale collar?

Yes she becomes very focused on some things and she is generally very quick to learn.
Last week we did the first lesson in working sheep, she was totally fantastic and it was the best thing i have done for years!! So that is going to be our thing.
But part of the pleasure of having a dog (for me anyway) is going for walks, and this is not a pleasure atm.
So thanks for all help, certainly a lot to try. I always go for a loose lead and leave her alone when it is loose but telling her good girl when she is trotting alongside me. But it is a rare moment!
 
Leather is just easier on your hands IMO. I am sure she will be fine with that age, mine were all on half checks at that age.

So pleased to hear she is working sheep :) that's what she's bred for, I bet she'll be brill.
 
CC, what in your opinion is better? I've been googling most of the day and the choice is:
Canny collar
Halti headcollar
or a half choke.

and what's a martingale collar?

Small finely built terrier, speed demon, who detests shop bought kibble (I'm having to cook sausages daily!)
 
I would always go for a half check (a martingale is a half check, but just made all of leather or fabric as opposed to a leather/fabric bit with a chain IYSWIM.
After that, a Canny collar or Gencon or similar, seem to have a better action.

Get frankfurters from a jar or can and cut them up with scissors, much easier!
 
ahh thankyou :D

I did look last night but thought the half check looked better. I only ask as mine has a thick neck and slim head and I'm worried about losing her with the canny collar, but think after all the worrying and decision making I'm going to carry on using the harness (for security) with a half check and two leads.

Off to make purchases this afternoon, and if that fails after a few weeks I'll try the canny collar.
 
You could also get a long training lead, which has clips at each end, and use that, rather than two leads, so harness when she is behaving but you have the other end of the line on the half check for close work if you need/want it, quite a few of our boys do that.
 
That's a good idea, thankyou. I've been taught to use the lead across my body, and it's something we're both used to - is this still possible with a double ended long lead? are they long enough?
 
Agree harnesses are pointless,just allow the dog to get more leverage.

Try these best buy i ever made,http://www.dogmatic.org.uk/

get the leather one,its stronger an better made than any of the other fabric ones,when u get it use saddle soap on it to prepare it for the weather.

I dont use mine any more but its fantastic for teaching a dog to heel.i doubled mine up with a full check collar,but a 1/2 check will do for you,(i have big dogs)haltis i have found can be slipped by an intelligent dog,also i depends on the shape of the head,my dogs heads are very "blocky",as regards chasing cars,wow, i advise halving dogs food,so more receptive to treats,giving him a damn good walk,then taking him to busy road an showing him treats are more interesting than cars.Good luck.Any questions please feel free to message me an ill try to help.

P.s i take my 3 out on my own,they have a combined weight of 17stone,im 5f 4" an just under 12stone.like previous posters have said it all a case of being patient,1st rule is dont get angry,dont go out if you have other things to do.It all takes time,when it comes together you will be proper proud.
 
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