Has anyone a valid reason...................

Goldenstar said:
Well good for you just because you have found an acceptable way forward does not mean I have .
I want well cut purpose made riding clothes and no one is making it I ride every day in breeches and long leather boots and I cannot find hi vis clothing that does not restrict and is comfortable .
While running and cycling stuff works fine in summer it's not suitable for hacking on horses in winter .
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I put a hiviz cycling gilet in very thin fabric over my expensive waterproof coat in winter. It means that I don't have to compromise on the features of my outerwear for safety. If the light is poor I put hiviz LED armbands on too. Sealskinso gloves have reflective strips on them and I wear these for hacking though they now make their riding gloves in full hi-viz. A hat band is also very effective. I would think that there is a solution in there for you GS

Count Oggy said:
When hunt are around this way they completely block the road, there are so many horses and followers it would be impossible to miss them, you generally hear them first anyway. They are not the same as one bay horse on a miserable day or in the shadow of trees.
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The hunt I go with have a vehicle behind on the roads and that is showing hazard lights.

alainax said:
I wear mine under. Not ideal, but better than nothing.

NeroHack_zps0b6dc041.jpg
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Get a long sleeved hi-viz and you will be much more visible

Tobiano said:
interesting thread!

A couple of things that haven't been mentioned.

I have never seen the Hunt go past dressed in hi-viz, and they definitely go on the roads. I am not sure what reception one would get if one turned up in hi viz to hunt - does anyone know? Therefore is it a valid reason not to wear one because you are hunting?

second point is, air jackets. If you put something on top of them it can interfere with them operating. in the past I have had to not wear a hi viz tabard in order not to interfere with my air jacket.

I would say that I am pretty safety conscious, but I don't normally wear hi viz, mainly because I am not normally far from home or on the roads, as we have lovely off road hacking on the farm where I keep my horse. I do go on the roads maybe once a week for up to 50 yards, and wouldn't go in poor visibility whether I had hi viz on or not.

I don't put hi viz sheets on my horse because he would get too hot.

Those seem to me like reasonable reasons not to wear hi viz (apart from the hunting one which I don't really understand still!)
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If you can't put a sheet on your horse try a Parsons rump, leg bands or neck straps/ breastplate.

You can buy air jackets in hiviz or put a long sleeved hiviz under them and remain visible. You can also use things like hathat bands arm bands etc to increase visibility.

Remember it isn't just about cars on the roads seeing you it is about aircraft, mountain bikers, shooters, dog walkers, Greenlaners, farmers, and the emergency services seeing you.

I would not wish to see hiviz made compulsory but for me on a basic risk assessment there are many good reasons to wear it, and no real disadvantages it is also cheap and easy so I always wear at the very least a tabard when I hack. And if the light is poor of it is getting late I display a white light in front and a red one to the rear as I am legally required to do.
 
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I have read this thread with interest, maybe I can give the pure (non-horse related) safety related view on hi-viz clothing.

I have been in high risk health & safety management for over 25 years, I have a Masters Degree in Safety Management and I am currently Global Head of Health & Safety for a division of one of the worlds largest companies, who are also the worlds largest logistics company... we buy more hi-viz clothing than any other organisation on the planet! Hence I hope my experience with high visibility clothing may be of use.

Wearing hi-viz clothing around vehicles reduces the risk of being hit and the severity of injures if you are hit. Fact.

We would not spend millions of pounds each year on high visibility clothing for our employees if there was not a clear link with being able to be seen more clearly and reducing the chance of being hit by a vehicle. It makes drivers more likely to see you, sooner and react quicker ideally to avoid a collision, but also if they do hit you, they are likely to be travelling slower at the point of impact, hence reduce severity.

You will note the use of a number of critical words there, such as reduce, likely and severity.

Safety is not an on/off switch. There are few situations where risk can be completely eliminated, unless the activity ceases, and with riding horses that's not the aim. Although avoiding riding on roads does reduce the risk significantly, but not eliminate it. It is exactly the same reason that new cars have daytime running lights that are permanently illumined. It makes vehicle easier to see, sooner. It does not eliminate collisions, it reduces the risk.

Wearing high visibility clothing will not make you visible of you are obscured from the drivers view (such as by a reversing vehicle) or where the driver is travelling so fast he cannot stop within the distance he can see (but it may reduce severity of the impact as he could see you sooner hence it may occur at a lower speed).

Interestingly in our organisation we have also used 'high-contrast' clothing for some roles, which seems to work well, but that has no reflective element so does not work as well at night or where there are no external light sources.

The overall aim should be to wear something that distinguishes you very clearly from your background. Yellow/orange high visibility clothing with reflective strips is designed for that purpose, hence does the best job, and is readily available. White is also highly visible, including in low-light conditions.

Clearly for horse riders it is personal choice as there is no legal or employment requirement (in most cases), it boils down to the riders individual attitude to their own and their horses safety, just as it does for cyclists and other vulnerable road users.

I was bought up to take the approach that it is no use lying in hospital with both legs cut off saying, "well it wasn't my fault". I should also add that I am a motorcyclist and racing cyclist, so I am well aware of exposure to road risk.
 
Thank you Crugeran, I'm really shocked by some of the vitriol on this post.

To insinuate that someone deserves to die because they're not wearing hi viz is appalling.

No one would say a woman deserves to be raped because she's wearing a short skirt would they?! It's complete victim blaming and I'm genuinely shocked by it.

I'm all for wearing hi viz, I really am but sometimes I don't. I go for a little plod around the block, some of it on quiet country roads, some on fields and I don't wear any hi viz. if I go further afield and know I'm going to encounter more cars going at speed, then I will. It doesn't mean I deserve to die if I get hit by a car!

Honestly people, get a grip.
 
I always wear a hi viz jacket even if just mooching down the country lane - did have drawbacks years ago when I kept horse at a yard where the school was rubbish so used to sneak into one of their fields to school very early morning before the farmer appeared but always used to think I was too easily seen! If going off road, I think it is also important as it gives cyclists/dog walkers etc more chance to see you early.
 
Im assuming there's some argueing going on here looking at the amount of pages... personally, I dont see how there can be. Yes, everyone should wear high viz. Its intelligent to do so and anything that increases your chances of getting home safely should surely be encouraged. I drive past a lady yesterday hacking out, she was riding against trees and wearing nothing but brown (horse was also bay) - I must admit that she was NOT very obvious especially in the misty light. Why on earth she didnt wear something high viz...

I wear a Rockfish bright yellow jacket for ridiing out, if its hot in the summer I wear one of those old school tabards.
 
An old friend fell off one christmas morning riding on her farm. Luckily - and it sounds odd to say it - her horse took to the road to get home so people saw it and the alarm was raised. She was badly injured and had to be airlifted. They had the devil of a job finding her in her old barbour and dark jods. She would never have thought to put on hi viz to just jog round the farm.
But I would add to my earlier post, how many people have done their Riding and road safety? A driving test recently? read their highway code since passing their test? We all bear a bit of responsibility for our own safety.
 
I wear a high viz cycling top, with long arms. Hacking where I am is only accessible by crossing (and at times travelling along) quite busy roads. I feel more visible and feel I need to 'meet drivers half way' I'm expecting them to be polite and courteous towards me, so therefore need to do all I can to be visible. I also ensure I at least nod and smile if not put a hand up to all that pass having slowed down etc. In an ideal world I wouldn't have to ride on the road, but we have to share it and whether you are on foot, horse, wheels or anything else I believe you should give others the best chance you can of seeing you and acting accordingly.

Some years ago I needed to be airlifted following a nasty riding accident and high viz definitely helped them, my riding buddy had to go to the nearest house (about 2 miles away) to use the phone as we had no signal.. The ambulance found me with just his directions and instructions that I was wearing a high viz jacket.

Would feel very strange riding without it now, same as BP. Would be quite good if BP's came in high viz too!!
 
Goldenstar said:
Well good for you just because you have found an acceptable way forward does not mean I have .
I want well cut purpose made riding clothes and no one is making it I ride every day in breeches and long leather boots and I cannot find hi vis clothing that does not restrict and is comfortable .
While running and cycling stuff works fine in summer it's not suitable for hacking on horses in winter .
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Err you can get winter weight waterproof running coats/jackets in bright colours, designed to be used in winter...
 
minkymoo said:
It doesn't mean I deserve to die if I get hit by a car!
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No it doesn't, and has anyone actually said that?

There is an element of personal responsibility though, whenever a horse goes out into a public environment, and making yourself as safe as possible, IN CASE of an accident.

I just think back to the trial I had for jury service this year and I can vividly remember the photos we were shown. Hi viz may have meant a different outcome for ALL involved...
 
There's no problem at all wearing high viz over an air jacket. Work wear waistcoats are velcro fastened and will pop open if the airbag goes off. Just buy a size that will go over coat and air jacket.

There's also no problem with overheating the horse. Mesh quarter sheets are available. I just use a very lightweight xxl high viz waistcoat over my horse's bum, arm holes to the rear. All off ebay for a pittance.
 
Both Joyriderz and Rockfish seem to have gone bust, shame as I have a very good rockfish hi viz gilet. Lunarider stuff is quite well designed. I'd not not wear it, as a driver I get annoyed with cyclists and dog walkers who like to wear dark clothing against hedgerows in low sun so it makes sense for me to wear it. Contrasting colours can help too-I like wearing bright red and it really stands out in my landscape.
 
Going back to the original question surely the valid point is I dont have to! its that simple really.
How many of you can stick your hand up and say honestly you have never broken the speed limit. A driver of a car should dtive in accordance with all conditions and expect all eventualities . The high viz zealots seem to be trying to take away all responsibility from drivers because the other option is to bring in a 10mph speed limit on country roads which will also make a big difference to horse safety. If I go out in less than ideal conditions I will take the right precautions which will include hi viz. However seeing as its this time of year perhaps some of you may like to do a little experiment . Go out when the sun is shinig bright and low in the sky and then see which you can see best hi viz or dark clothing with the sun shining strasight in your eyes. Theres a time and a place for all sorts of safety clothing .
I am afraid a lot of riders on the road today should not be there in the first place however they think donning a bit of hi viz takes away the basic requirements for common sense . In a life time of riding I have not as much as had a near miss on the road and that has included whipping in next to major roads your most important piece of safety equipment is between your ears and not a piece of hi viz material. If said organ says use hi viz thats fine but dont say that makes you safer than me if I dont.

Perhaps it should be mandatory for us humans to wear hi viz at all times in life so that those driving cars know where everybody is or indeed people wont bump into each other in the street ,im afraid as stupid as it sounds thats the natural extension of whats proposed.
 
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popsdosh said:
Perhaps it should be mandatory for us humans to wear hi viz at all times in life so that those driving cars know where everybody is or indeed people wont bump into each other in the street ,im afraid as stupid as it sounds thats the natural extension of whats proposed.
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You're right, it does sound stupid.
 
Well, I'd love to see this brand's range of clothing. I'm imagining hi vis leopard print with cut out bits? : )

ycbm said:
Was that sarcasm?


I ride every day in Mountain Whorehouse coats from the sales, fifteen quid jodphurs, and Decathlon rubber riding boots :D But if I did want a well cut, expensive hi viz coat and there wasn't one available, it wouldn't stop me wearing hi viz because my experience is that it improves my safety on the road by a big margin.
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ozpoz said:
Well, I'd love to see this brand's range of clothing. I'm imagining hi vis leopard print with cut out bits? : )
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It's what we call it, I can't remember why we started, but now we can't stop :D

Does anyone ever pay the introductory price in Mountain Whorehouse? Just wait a few days, and it will be cut by fifty percent! I've got a great cycling orange breathable waterproof though. Thirty five quid. Big pocket across the bum is really useful for carrying things up to my friend's house.
 
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And in other news I read in the paper that they are now painting Dartmoor ponies with reflective paint stripes to try and cut the numbers run over on the moors. It also mentioned that sheep were also being hit so I assume they too must be getting a coating of paint.

Though it also mentioned that the paint only lasted 3 days or so so they were trying to come up with a longer lasting paint.


In other news I suspect the greater problem isn't drivers, nor cars nor reflective clothing but simply oversaturation of the system. Increase the number of cars and the number of accidents will go up no matter what you try.
 
SpottyMare said:
For those of you who want style with your high viz... :) While her equestrian stuff isn't high viz per se, it does come in some bright colours that would stand out in daylight. Not cheap though! :D She was at Blenheim last year, and it all looked really nice quality too.

Ahttp://www.georgiaindublin.com/product/dublette-equestrian-rainjacket/

http://www.georgiaindublin.com/product/d1-style-vest-equestrian-high-viz/
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Gorgeous coat , and I love the ladies hi vis vest .
Thank you for posting .
 
There is a small yard by me. There are about 10 race horse and two girls in thier late teens who ride them. They are all bays and they wear dark clothes, its so hard to see them. Some of the horses are strong and don't always appear to be under control.

I dont understand it personally, I would never ride without HI Viz.
 
Are we the only country in the world with this obsession with health and safety ? Do riders in other countries wear high viz ? I don't know the answer for sure but I suspect it's just us ?
 
bonny said:
Are we the only country in the world with this obsession with health and safety ? Do riders in other countries wear high viz ? I don't know the answer for sure but I suspect it's just us ?
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It's a good question , I do think in the UK we hack more and use the roads more for riding than in other European countries .
 
bonny said:
Are we the only country in the world with this obsession with health and safety ? Do riders in other countries wear high viz ? I don't know the answer for sure but I suspect it's just us ?
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In many countries they have not even got round to wearing hats let alone hi vis .
 
bonny said:
Are we the only country in the world with this obsession with health and safety ? Do riders in other countries wear high viz ? I don't know the answer for sure but I suspect it's just us ?
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Well I don't know about an obsession with H&S but I was talking to someone who hunts in a patey and won't let his children wear hi viz when they hack out as he thinks it looks stupid, he's also not that keen on them wearing BPs when they hunt either. His argument was all about the nanny state and free will but as I pointed out to him if he suffered a fall and had a serious head injury, he'd expect the NHS to sort him out and help to support his children if he didn't "make it". People who don't wish to take sensible precautions on the basis of freedom of choice are perfectly free to pay for their medical treatment but I doubt many do.
 
Anyone who doubts that can look stylish in hi viz should look at some of the sparkle sister's recent hacking pictures, both looked very glam in bright pink!
 
oldie48 said:
Well I don't know about an obsession with H&S but I was talking to someone who hunts in a patey and won't let his children wear hi viz when they hack out as he thinks it looks stupid, he's also not that keen on them wearing BPs when they hunt either. His argument was all about the nanny state and free will but as I pointed out to him if he suffered a fall and had a serious head injury, he'd expect the NHS to sort him out and help to support his children if he didn't "make it". People who don't wish to take sensible precautions on the basis of freedom of choice are perfectly free to pay for their medical treatment but I doubt many do.
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But that's no different to people who drive badly and have accidents , eat badly and get type two diabetes , exercise too much and wear out their joints etc etc the list is endless.
Personally I only wear a BP if forced ,my BP was a factor when I broke my back it prevented my spine curving to allow it to absord the impact in what was admittedly an unusual fall therefore I chose not to wear one unless I must.
 
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