Has anyone a valid reason...................

I do wear hi viz when I'm out but the times I have had a near miss it wouldn't have made any difference if I was wearing it or not. I do think that it is a case of victim blaming saying that it should be compulsory to wear it.
 
Rapidash said:
I appreciate and agree with the "you might as well wear it you have nothing to lose" argument but really dont think the evidence is strong enough to warrant accusations of idiocy... It's not like the wearing a helmet/ drink driving/ seatbelt debates where the evidence mounted up.
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But many of these things which were once a matter of choice have since become a matter of law. I remember when the seatbelt law came in, there were many people who felt they should be able to choose whether to risk being thrown through the windscreen in the event of an accident or not. I haven't seen anyone on this thread be able to give a valid REASON (sorry, not shouting, I don't know how to make it bold) why they don't wear hiviz on the road, other than that it is a matter of choice. Which isn't a very good reason imho.

I don't ride on the road because I don't have to, and because the roads round here are too dangerous, but I still wear hiviz offroad because I want people to see me sooner, and if I part company with my horse, I would like the horse to be more visible and me to be found sooner if I'm incapacitated. Valid reasons.
 
I don't ride a horse on the roads but do ride a motorbike. I always wear a hi-viz vest, no matter what time of day it is or what the conditions. It's just part of my gear.

I'm always a bit baffled when I see other bikers/cyclists etc without hi-viz. Not in a judgemental way (honest....), just genuine surprise.

Really, what is the downside to wearing hi-viz?

I get the freedom of choice argument, sure I wouldn't like to have it forced on me either. And no, there isn't a huge amount of evidence that it saves lives. But i am surprised to see such strong anti-hi-viz feelings as I genuinely don't see what the downside is.
 
HGA-12 said:
For anyone interested I found these tonight at Tesco, thought they would be brilliant on our carriage when we drive as they just clip on, and if you put a elastic band in the tail you could clip this on your horses tail. they were £ 1. 20 or something - so I thought I would share the tip

IMG_1998_zps62ul06z8.jpg
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I had something similar to this on the dogs collars that I got a few years ago at Tescos in the cycling section - at least I know what direction to shout them back when they bogged off after foxes :) They also had velcro arm bands with with a strip of red lights that you could set to flashing that went round their necks from the same place, about a pound each at the time. They worked really well on the short haired dogs not so well on the long haired ones though.
 
cbmcts said:
I had something similar to this on the dogs collars that I got a few years ago at Tescos in the cycling section - at least I know what direction to shout them back when they bogged off after foxes :) They also had velcro arm bands with with a strip of red lights that you could set to flashing that went round their necks from the same place, about a pound each at the time. They worked really well on the short haired dogs not so well on the long haired ones though.
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these ones are bigger than the dog ones they measure 2 1/2 inches across
 
Several years ago on a Sunday morning, lovely day weather wise, nice straight road, 40mph limit as just come out the village and my horse got hit by a van by a driver who 'didn't see me' he wasn't speeding.

My horse was grey, he had a hi viz exercise sheet on and I had a hi viz coat on..

Luckily my horse wasn't hurt other than bruising so I'm very 'meh' about the hi viz argument now. I don't find drivers react any different if I'm wearing it or not.

Strangely enough I found the traffic slowed down when I won an ROR jacket with writing on the back and people slowed down to read it.
 
dollyanna said:
I'd be interested to know where they circulated it, 353 responses in 4 months is very little in comparison to the number of riders out there. Also using social media in itself would skew the results - many of the riders near me who ride without reflectives are much older and I know that many if not most of them do not use social media much if at all. I would also wonder if those who are bothered about taking part in these type of projects are keener on safety and therefore more likely to ear reflectives - those who are less bothered about their own safety are also less likely to bother responding.
Not a particularly valid piece of research to my mind, and I also think they should do the research with drivers as much as riders - I could report several near misses when I have been driving due to very poor visibility of riders in my area, and I drive carefully because I know where they are likely to be and are not likely to be visible.
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Exactly. It is very hard to quantify prevention. This is why money for crime prevention is always at risk of being cut. We are always, as a group, moaning about lack of courtesy from the general public. The minor humiliation of wearing a hi viz is just a common courtesy to other road users. I know I appreciate it and always notice people wearing them sooner than those who don't wear them.
 
With the research it is very hard to prove that hi viz does not work as it is very hard to measure accidents that did not happen due to drivers seeing a horse earlier. Hi Viz may not slow down all drivers and some people may drive responsibly so they will see a horse and slow down anyway regardless of Hi Viz or not.

If Hi Viz is not effective why do so many workmen have to wear it as it is an extra cost for companies to provide Hi Viz workwear to staff.

I wonder if like with hat wearing it is the more professional riders that are less likely to wear hi viz because they think they are less likely to have an accident as they are better riders and on better schooled horses or if it is a cultural thing because they may not hack out as much as leisure riders. Tabards are light and easy to put on and will fit over bulky winter jackets and are cool enough to wear in hot weather too so not wearing it is not saving time in getting ready to ride out.

I expect there are people who don't wear it as they think it looks unprofessional or that they don't look fashionable or because of cost. {If you can't afford to buy a hi viz you can sometimes get them free if you join the nettex club which is free to join}

I always wear hi viz when hacking out and I have also started to wear it whilst walking on foot especially on narrow roads with poor visibility.

I have also seen some dogs now wearing hi viz jackets and collars. Some people also put hi viz collars on the semi feral new forest ponies running on the forest so they are more likely to get seen if they stray on to the roads.
 
This thread worries me.... people, horse people, are actually trying to defend riding out without Hi Viz? Idiotic! Yes it may be 'Freedom of choice' but that doesn't mean that it is a right or valid decision to make!
 
Count Oggy said:
Exactly. It is very hard to quantify prevention. This is why money for crime prevention is always at risk of being cut. We are always, as a group, moaning about lack of courtesy from the general public. The minor humiliation of wearing a hi viz is just a common courtesy to other road users. I know I appreciate it and always notice people wearing them sooner than those who don't wear them.
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Then in my opinion you ought not be driving .
Pedestrians are at risk from you .
Unless something is restricting your vision ( poor light for instance ) there's no excuse for not noticing things that are not high vis as quickly as those that are.
 
SO1 said:
With the research it is very hard to prove that hi viz does not work as it is very hard to measure accidents that did not happen due to drivers seeing a horse earlier. Hi Viz may not slow down all drivers and some people may drive responsibly so they will see a horse and slow down anyway regardless of Hi Viz or not.

If Hi Viz is not effective why do so many workmen have to wear it as it is an extra cost for companies to provide Hi Viz workwear to staff.

I wonder if like with hat wearing it is the more professional riders that are less likely to wear hi viz because they think they are less likely to have an accident as they are better riders and on better schooled horses or if it is a cultural thing because they may not hack out as much as leisure riders. Tabards are light and easy to put on and will fit over bulky winter jackets and are cool enough to wear in hot weather too so not wearing it is not saving time in getting ready to ride out.

I expect there are people who don't wear it as they think it looks unprofessional or that they don't look fashionable or because of cost. {If you can't afford to buy a hi viz you can sometimes get them free if you join the nettex club which is free to join}

I always wear hi viz when hacking out and I have also started to wear it whilst walking on foot especially on narrow roads with poor visibility.

I have also seen some dogs now wearing hi viz jackets and collars. Some people also put hi viz collars on the semi feral new forest ponies running on the forest so they are more likely to get seen if they stray on to the roads.
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A few on my old yard wouldn't wear it because it looks daft - one of these was a serving police officer!
 
Your dicing with death if you don't wear Hi Viz - my young livery was knocked off her bike two weeks ago and the police said she was partly to blame as she had no hi viz, even though the old bag pulled out of a side road and my livery cycled into her.

remember you cannot bring the life of your horse back but you can buy a new frame or wheel for a bike.

Be seen be safe that is my motto same like wearing a hat, head hits the road and split open like a water melon.


*you don't* get a second chance
 
Goldenstar said:
Then in my opinion you ought not be driving .
Pedestrians are at risk from you .
Unless something is restricting your vision ( poor light for instance ) there's no excuse for not noticing things that are not high vis as quickly as those that are.
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Pedestrians generally aren't on the road, so unless Count Oggy is in the habit of driving on the pavement, then there's no need to enforce hi-vis for pedestrians (unless they are on the road, then frankly they should be wearing it - particularly on country roads).

The reason it's called "hi-vis" is because it's highly visible. It's perfectly normal and expected to see hi-vis before seeing non hi-vis.
 
Goldenstar said:
Then in my opinion you ought not be driving .
Pedestrians are at risk from you .
Unless something is restricting your vision ( poor light for instance ) there's no excuse for not noticing things that are not high vis as quickly as those that are.
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Gosh, you're really quite a charmer aren't you! Why get so personal? I'm not saying I drive around with my eyes closed with people jumping into ditches to get out of my way! There is no excuse for driving dangerously but when if two people are walking down a country lane where trees are causing shadows, one is wearing a brown or green jacket and the other is in high visibility clothing it is more than likely the one in high viz will be more visible. That has nothing to do with my lack of ability as a driver. I will also add, that yes, the light is often poor here in the winter. I rarely see horses on the road unless it's the hunt and you can't miss them. We do however get a lot of ladies that walk, usually before they have to go to work or when they return home. There are no pavements and most of them are dressed up like bananas. Simply because it makes them more visible. If you only hack out in perfect weather conditions you should be fine, but anything else requires a little bit of ugly yellow clothing.
 
Our hacking is mostly pretty suburban with very little off road hacking unless you're lucky enough to have transport (which I don't) and enough time to box up and set off on an outing to hack. High streets, A roads, footbridges across motorways you have to dismount and lead over, it's pretty unforgiving. Most hacks we will meet one or more of bus, bin lorry, truck, article, cyclists (single or group of), motorbikes, flapping flags on the petrol station forecourt, scaffolding and building work etc. Most drivers are polite and considerate, but a minority are idiots. Yes, hacking out is a risk, and one that not everyone would choose to take. But it's that or bore poor Micropony witless in the school the whole time, so I have been hacking him out since just before he turned 4.

I consider that's quite risky enough, without leaving the hi vis behind. The research isn't conclusive, but if (God forbid) we should have an accident, I don't want to be wondering if maybe it wouldn't have happened if we'd been easier to see.

Not everyone at the yard does wear hi vis to hack, but (and this may just be coincidence) there are only a couple of people who have come a cropper in the 6 or 7 years I have been there. Neither of them were wearing hi vis, and one wasn't even wearing a hat.

We wear an exercise rug (mesh in summer, waterproof and fleece lined in winter) and I have a hat band and a selection of hi vis outer garments ranging from a mesh waistcoat for the summer (has handy pocket for phone and hoofpick), through a gilet of reasonably flattering cut for spring and autumn, to a warm jacket for winter. Waistcoat is adjustable so expands to go over my big waxed coat when riding in the rain.

Although hi vis yellow doesn't do my colouring any favours, I think we look reasonably smart in our gear (until someone else's horse rubs half-chewed food on his exercise rug while stopped to let a car through), and when there are several of us all done up like that, I defy any driver to claim they can't see us!

Of course it's personal choice, I just don't understand why someone would choose not to.
 
Bit off topic but around a year go if a young child had of been wearing hi-viz, I wouldn't have had to see him hit head on, having to wash his blood off my hands and clothing and wonder whether his brain surgery would save him or I'd be a witness at Court. The poor driver stood no chance of avoiding him and it has probably affected him severely.

Drivers obviously aren't blind enough to need lurid colours to see a horse and rider/cyclist/biker/pedestrian but there can be many distractions when driving. Making yourself obvious that you are there and you are vulnerable to those driving big, heavy objects travelling at higher speed in your direction can only be common sense, as well as using common sense in general road use.

Make yourself stand out on the roads, could save not only ruining your life but those of others too.
 
dollyanna said:
I'd be interested to know where they circulated it, 353 responses in 4 months is very little in comparison to the number of riders out there. Also using social media in itself would skew the results - many of the riders near me who ride without reflectives are much older and I know that many if not most of them do not use social media much if at all. I would also wonder if those who are bothered about taking part in these type of projects are keener on safety and therefore more likely to ear reflectives - those who are less bothered about their own safety are also less likely to bother responding.
Not a particularly valid piece of research to my mind, and I also think they should do the research with drivers as much as riders - I could report several near misses when I have been driving due to very poor visibility of riders in my area, and I drive carefully because I know where they are likely to be and are not likely to be visible.
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I don't disagree but the point is, where are all the studies proving conclusively that hi viz improves road safety for horse riders?
There aren't any. Why is that? Why haven't any of the hi viz manufacturers spent a fraction of their profits conducting some basic research to prove that their kit saves lives?

BTW, there's no convincing evidence that hi viz improves road safety for cyclists either, although there are a few more studies published.

Both me and my ponio are decked out head-to-toe/hoof in hi viz pink every time we venture out on the roads but that didn't stop one plonker from coming very, very close to killing us earlier this year, so I have my doubts it makes any difference whatsoever.
 
Is there no research to demonstrate hi vis increases visibility outside of equestrian and cycling uses? Surely there must be otherwise why would companies have to spend on providing their workers (builders, roadworkers, rail workers etc) with certified hi vis clothing?
 
I don't think that its about the ass hole drivers! its more about people not being able to see you, there is a chance that someone would have slowed down had they have seen you but because you're not wearing hi viz they were not able to see you until the last minute
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Hang on, you've clearly not managed to read my post properly at all. I stated that I was wearing hi-viz, a pink hi-viz jacket and horse was wearing a yellow hi-viz sheet and yet the driver I was talking about clearly didn't care that there wasn't room for the both of us and that she thought as she was in a car, she was more important.

I always wear hi-viz when out on the roads, my point is (as a previous poster has mentioned) it doesn't make you immune from people driving like asses.

Just because they see you sooner does not mean they will necessarily pass you slow and wide. They do notice that there is an inconvenience on the road that will delay their journey by precious seconds and therefore must be passed as if it isn't even there.
 
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My concern is that Hi Viz seems to make some riders think they are invincible - we have one on our yard who rides out in the dark in her hi viz, when a fellow livery commented to her that she had driven past her and did not see her until the last minute the reply was 'well I had all of my hi viz on'. Oh right then, if I get a couple of hi viz stripes for my bonnet and boot does that mean I can drive without headlights/tail lights then??
 
Buddy'sMum said:
I don't disagree but the point is, where are all the studies proving conclusively that hi viz improves road safety for horse riders?
There aren't any. Why is that? Why haven't any of the hi viz manufacturers spent a fraction of their profits conducting some basic research to prove that their kit saves lives?

BTW, there's no convincing evidence that hi viz improves road safety for cyclists either, although there are a few more studies published.

Both me and my ponio are decked out head-to-toe/hoof in hi viz pink every time we venture out on the roads but that didn't stop one plonker from coming very, very close to killing us earlier this year, so I have my doubts it makes any difference whatsoever.
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Why do you need a study to point out the obvious?!

Hi viz will not make a plonker driver who is probably looking at their phone not the road, less of a plonker.

Hi viz WILL make you more easily seen by the non plonker drivers - every second counts when it comes to stopping distance - and therefore must reduce the risk of being hit because you were blending in with your smart tweed and dark jods.
 
Buddy'sMum said:
I don't disagree but the point is, where are all the studies proving conclusively that hi viz improves road safety for horse riders?
There aren't any. Why is that? Why haven't any of the hi viz manufacturers spent a fraction of their profits conducting some basic research to prove that their kit saves lives?

BTW, there's no convincing evidence that hi viz improves road safety for cyclists either, although there are a few more studies published.

Both me and my ponio are decked out head-to-toe/hoof in hi viz pink every time we venture out on the roads but that didn't stop one plonker from coming very, very close to killing us earlier this year, so I have my doubts it makes any difference whatsoever.
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No conclusive evidence for cyclists? You can't have followed my pointer. I'll post it again.


I don't personally need conclusive evidence for what I can see with my own eyes.
 
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minesadouble said:
My concern is that Hi Viz seems to make some riders think they are invincible - we have one on our yard who rides out in the dark in her hi viz, when a fellow livery commented to her that she had driven past her and did not see her until the last minute the reply was 'well I had all of my hi viz on'. Oh right then, if I get a couple of hi viz stripes for my bonnet and boot does that mean I can drive without headlights/tail lights then??
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She's confused between hi visibility and highly reflective. You need the former during the day and the latter in the dark. I do both and have both although most hi vis has some reflective strips, it's not enough for dark conditions where you need ultra reflective clothing, and lights.
 
i don't believe there is any valid reason not to wear hi viz. I always hi viz up myself and whichever horse I am riding like a Christmas tree whether I am riding on or off road.
It's obvious someone wearing hi viz is more noticeable I dont need any scientific proof to tell me that and I am agog that members are questioning that.
If I were to part company with my horse on the road or in the countryside I want him seen easily and quickly and I want any emergency services/help to see me easily too.
I have been praised by dog walkers that they could see me on my horse from so far away they had plenty of time to get their dog on its lead before we met.
When I used to drive one of mine I used reflectors high viz, blinking lights and bells on the carriage to warn people of our approach. If your love your horses and life you take responsibility to do all you can to prevent an accident. Is it fail safe? No of course not, but you can be sure it works for so many insurance companies to insist on its use. I am sure we have all met that foolish runner dressed in black running on the roads.
 
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HGA-12 said:
For anyone interested I found these tonight at Tesco, thought they would be brilliant on our carriage when we drive as they just clip on, and if you put a elastic band in the tail you could clip this on your horses tail. they were £ 1. 20 or something - so I thought I would share the tip

IMG_1998_zps62ul06z8.jpg
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I have those clipped to my saddle they are fab
 
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