Chestnut-mare-lover
Member
If so, how over weight was you and what did VOSA do?
Has anyone been pulled over in a 3.5t Or 7.5t horse box and been overweight?
- Thread starter Chestnut-mare-lover
- Start date
leflynn
Well-Known Member
Not in a horsebox and I wasn't driving but a passenger.
Got pulled over and had to be escorted to the nearest weighbridge by the police. The van was then weighed and we had to remove additional weight over the limit there and then before we were allowed to continue our journey. The driver was then fined and given points. It was not a pretty experience even if I wasn't the driver (thankfully), defo not one I'd recommend!
Got pulled over and had to be escorted to the nearest weighbridge by the police. The van was then weighed and we had to remove additional weight over the limit there and then before we were allowed to continue our journey. The driver was then fined and given points. It was not a pretty experience even if I wasn't the driver (thankfully), defo not one I'd recommend!
Chestnut-mare-lover
Member
Can you remember how overweight you were?
leflynn
Well-Known Member
I think we were just over a ton overweight - so quite a lot! The driver was also speeding at the time (didn't enjoy the journey one bit) so the police were more than happy to pull us over. It was a 3.5t Mercedes sprinter van and it was obviously overladen at the time.
Chestnut-mare-lover
Member
Gosh....that is quite overweight for a 3.5t horsebox. I've heard VOSA give you a 5% tolerance?
leflynn
Well-Known Member
It was standard van rather than horsebox (I was working for a corporate events company at the time). They do give you tolerance but we were well over that!!! can't cheat and leave passengers out either when they weight you 
My boss who was driving didn't think a lot of legal things applied to him and his business sadly...
My boss who was driving didn't think a lot of legal things applied to him and his business sadly...
marmalade76
Well-Known Member
Cripes, what on earth were you carrying to be a ton overweight??
leflynn
Well-Known Member
Mobile staging (steel deck), a lot of lighting equipment and winches etc, the van was packed to the rafters it was ridiculous *shakes head* I was impressed at how we got the lot in to be honest!
FleabittenT
Well-Known Member
I posted this on the other horsebox-related thread - another livery on our yard was stopped by VOSA in Wales, with 2 on board their 3.5T.
They weighed in at just under 3.7T (so 5-6% over) and were fined around the £200 mark, I think.
They weighed in at just under 3.7T (so 5-6% over) and were fined around the £200 mark, I think.
Fools Motto
Well-Known Member
Yes, as a passanger in a horse box, with 2 horses on board. Couldn't tell you how much over wieght we were, but I guess as it was a 7.5 t and we were fat it was a bit over! Joked about leaving the driver out, but I think the culprit was our very over full water containers for horses and living. Think we drained one, and were allowed on our way, although think we continued and we were still not under the limit. (maybe allowing for a % over?
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fabscd
Well-Known Member
A friend of mine was stopped by VOSA in a 7.5 ton, i think she was a couple of tonnes overweight and they escorted her to a weighbridge, then to somewhere else to drop off a number of horses, then back to the weighbridge until they weighed under. I don't think she got a fine but it would have been fairly hefty if she had!
Chestnut-mare-lover
Member
Blimey some boxes were very over weight. Need to take my 3.5 to weight bridge. I have a big 17hh wb :-/
snowcrew
Well-Known Member
I have a Marlborough Hunter and have been weighed twice at BE events by a chap who converts 3.5 vehicles to 3.9 to sort this "two horse" issue. When I bought it I was assured it had a 1.2 payload.
For some reason on each occasion my weight was hugely different i.e. about 400 difference! Dont think my diet is that bad!
On the second occasion, worryingly, I had my 585 kg horse, full fuel tank (about £100 worth, but dont know weight) two saddles, three passengers, two water carriers,heavy full side partition, 2 x bales shavings and tables and chairs etc for four and I think I had about 210 left. So..... If I were to take two horses, who I know weigh about the same, I would have to leave everything else off and transport in another vehicle and I would possibly be 140 kg over - do you think I would get prosecuted for this?
For some reason on each occasion my weight was hugely different i.e. about 400 difference! Dont think my diet is that bad!
On the second occasion, worryingly, I had my 585 kg horse, full fuel tank (about £100 worth, but dont know weight) two saddles, three passengers, two water carriers,heavy full side partition, 2 x bales shavings and tables and chairs etc for four and I think I had about 210 left. So..... If I were to take two horses, who I know weigh about the same, I would have to leave everything else off and transport in another vehicle and I would possibly be 140 kg over - do you think I would get prosecuted for this?
YasandCrystal
Well-Known Member
Sorry to sound like the party spoiler, but the weight limits are given for reasons of safety and 'safe handling' of the horsebox. It is not a case of 'getting away' with being overweght with the authorities - it's a case of 'if you don't get away with it if you have to brake suddenly or swerve' or have a tyre blowout - that extra xxxkg could mean the difference between the safety of your horses or not!
For that reason I would never travel more than 1 horse or 2 ponies in a 3.5T - my horses are too valuable to risk. My advice would be take your test and get a 5 T minimum.
For that reason I would never travel more than 1 horse or 2 ponies in a 3.5T - my horses are too valuable to risk. My advice would be take your test and get a 5 T minimum.
GeeBee45
Well-Known Member
I'll approach the question from a slightly different angle.
Have never been pulled over and weighed in a horsebox. Have been pulled over a couple of times when driving artics but as they were either empty or only partly laden at the time, no problems.
For the last 11 years I've been weighing vehicles. Vehicles in the 3.6 tonne to 7.5 tonne category are prime candidates for being overloaded. Please note, vehicles are 'overloaded,' drivers are 'overweight!' Doesn't really matter if the vehicle is a horsebox or not, fridge vehicles and vehicles with internal panelling all have reduced payload capacity. Just because there is a lot of room in the back doesn't mean you can fill it with horses, frozen food, pallets of books or magazines etc. With 7.5 tonne vehicles it's really easy to overload the front axle.
The best advice I can offer is get the vehicle weighed whilst empty but with a full tank of fuel (if you can afford to do that these days) and yourself sitting in the driving seat. Now you know the 'tare weight' subtract it from the 'gross weight' on the weight plate and you have the 'payload,' or the amount of weight you can carry. Now be realistic as to what you need to take with you and how much it weighs. Trust me, an awful lot of kit isn't needed. A few years of having to carry a Bergen, weapon and webbing taught me that ammo, water and some food is important, everything else isn't. I'm not saying you need to be puritanical, just be sensible; do you really need to take 200 litres of water with you? The more your vehicle carries the more fuel it will consume.
Over the years I've prosecuted a large number of overloads. My personal 'best' was a 7.5 tonne freezer vehicle that weighed 11.75 tonnes!! I've seen 3.5 tonne vans weigh 6 tonnes on the weighbridge and didn't believe the driver when he said it didn't handle any different from normal. Unfortunately I've had to deal with a number of overloaded horseboxes. The last one on the M6 was carrying 5 polo ponies. Two stayed in local livery and had to be transported to Scotland later, from memory the livery bill was about £100 and the fine £200.
Now the legal bit. Overloading is an 'absolute offence.' In other words you are guilty even if the authorised weight is only exceeded by 1 Kg. There are two defences;
- you were travelling to the nearest available weighbridge from the point of loading to check weigh the vehicle and load.
- you are returning to the nearest suitable point to remove excess load having check weighed the vehicle and found it to be overloaded.
Word of warning, do not try claiming the defence if that is not what you're actually doing, Police, VOSA Examiners, Trading Standards Officers and the Courts have heard it all before.
There is a 5 per cent tolerance given on overloading. This was introduced to cover eventualities where the load could increase in weight during transport; think soil being carried in a tipper when it's raining, also hay / straw being carried in the rain. In reality it doesn't need to apply to a horsebox or other vehicle with a covered loading area, however, it does. This means that you have a tolerance of 175kg on a 3.5 tonne van and 375 kg on a 7.5 tonne vehicle. Now, those amongst us used to transport will say that the tolerance quoted is unfair to smaller vehicles because larger vehicles could be overloaded to a greater degree think 2.2 tonnes on a 44 tonne artic. However, like so many things in life there is a 'yes, but.' In this case is the plated weight is exceeded by 1 tonne then prosecution will be automatic, irrespective of the actual percentage involved.
So what actually happens if the authorised weight is exceeded?
The vehicle will be prohibited from further use until the overload is removed. Let's make this clear, it is your problem to deal with the overload not the Officers / Examiners. The vast majority that I know will have a great deal of sympathy, especially where animals are involved and will often direct vehicles a short distance or even escort them to a safe place where animals can be safely offloaded. You can break the terms of the Prohibition Notice if you wish, but you will go to Court and it will be an expensive experience, think maximum level of fine up to £5000.
Most overloads are dealt with by way of a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN). If you have a UK address then you have 28 days to pay the ticket or you can elect to go to Court and plead not guilty. FPNs are graduated dependent upon the degree of overload, current values are;
>5% <10% £60
>10%<20% £120
>20%<30% £120
If the overload is greater than 30% or five tonnes then you will be going to Court. Maximum fine is upto £5000, although I've never seen that or anything approaching it. The actual amount depends upon your previous history, if you enetr an 'early guilty plea,' what your disposable income is etc etc.
There are no points for an overloading offence per se. However, dependent upon the degree of overload the prosecuting authority may decide to go with 'use vehicle in a dangerous condition.' If this is the case the authority only have to show that the vehicle was LIKELY to be a danger to the driver, passengers, other road users or pedestrians. If convicted the maximum fine is £5000 (see previous comments about what you actually get fined), this is the nasty bit; the Court MUST impose Penalty Points, 3-6 and should in severe cases consider disqualification (very rare in my experience).
Apologies for the long post. Nice glass of Gevrey Chambertin or Chablis to those that made it this far - but not if you're driving.
Have never been pulled over and weighed in a horsebox. Have been pulled over a couple of times when driving artics but as they were either empty or only partly laden at the time, no problems.
For the last 11 years I've been weighing vehicles. Vehicles in the 3.6 tonne to 7.5 tonne category are prime candidates for being overloaded. Please note, vehicles are 'overloaded,' drivers are 'overweight!' Doesn't really matter if the vehicle is a horsebox or not, fridge vehicles and vehicles with internal panelling all have reduced payload capacity. Just because there is a lot of room in the back doesn't mean you can fill it with horses, frozen food, pallets of books or magazines etc. With 7.5 tonne vehicles it's really easy to overload the front axle.
The best advice I can offer is get the vehicle weighed whilst empty but with a full tank of fuel (if you can afford to do that these days) and yourself sitting in the driving seat. Now you know the 'tare weight' subtract it from the 'gross weight' on the weight plate and you have the 'payload,' or the amount of weight you can carry. Now be realistic as to what you need to take with you and how much it weighs. Trust me, an awful lot of kit isn't needed. A few years of having to carry a Bergen, weapon and webbing taught me that ammo, water and some food is important, everything else isn't. I'm not saying you need to be puritanical, just be sensible; do you really need to take 200 litres of water with you? The more your vehicle carries the more fuel it will consume.
Over the years I've prosecuted a large number of overloads. My personal 'best' was a 7.5 tonne freezer vehicle that weighed 11.75 tonnes!! I've seen 3.5 tonne vans weigh 6 tonnes on the weighbridge and didn't believe the driver when he said it didn't handle any different from normal. Unfortunately I've had to deal with a number of overloaded horseboxes. The last one on the M6 was carrying 5 polo ponies. Two stayed in local livery and had to be transported to Scotland later, from memory the livery bill was about £100 and the fine £200.
Now the legal bit. Overloading is an 'absolute offence.' In other words you are guilty even if the authorised weight is only exceeded by 1 Kg. There are two defences;
- you were travelling to the nearest available weighbridge from the point of loading to check weigh the vehicle and load.
- you are returning to the nearest suitable point to remove excess load having check weighed the vehicle and found it to be overloaded.
Word of warning, do not try claiming the defence if that is not what you're actually doing, Police, VOSA Examiners, Trading Standards Officers and the Courts have heard it all before.
There is a 5 per cent tolerance given on overloading. This was introduced to cover eventualities where the load could increase in weight during transport; think soil being carried in a tipper when it's raining, also hay / straw being carried in the rain. In reality it doesn't need to apply to a horsebox or other vehicle with a covered loading area, however, it does. This means that you have a tolerance of 175kg on a 3.5 tonne van and 375 kg on a 7.5 tonne vehicle. Now, those amongst us used to transport will say that the tolerance quoted is unfair to smaller vehicles because larger vehicles could be overloaded to a greater degree think 2.2 tonnes on a 44 tonne artic. However, like so many things in life there is a 'yes, but.' In this case is the plated weight is exceeded by 1 tonne then prosecution will be automatic, irrespective of the actual percentage involved.
So what actually happens if the authorised weight is exceeded?
The vehicle will be prohibited from further use until the overload is removed. Let's make this clear, it is your problem to deal with the overload not the Officers / Examiners. The vast majority that I know will have a great deal of sympathy, especially where animals are involved and will often direct vehicles a short distance or even escort them to a safe place where animals can be safely offloaded. You can break the terms of the Prohibition Notice if you wish, but you will go to Court and it will be an expensive experience, think maximum level of fine up to £5000.
Most overloads are dealt with by way of a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN). If you have a UK address then you have 28 days to pay the ticket or you can elect to go to Court and plead not guilty. FPNs are graduated dependent upon the degree of overload, current values are;
>5% <10% £60
>10%<20% £120
>20%<30% £120
If the overload is greater than 30% or five tonnes then you will be going to Court. Maximum fine is upto £5000, although I've never seen that or anything approaching it. The actual amount depends upon your previous history, if you enetr an 'early guilty plea,' what your disposable income is etc etc.
There are no points for an overloading offence per se. However, dependent upon the degree of overload the prosecuting authority may decide to go with 'use vehicle in a dangerous condition.' If this is the case the authority only have to show that the vehicle was LIKELY to be a danger to the driver, passengers, other road users or pedestrians. If convicted the maximum fine is £5000 (see previous comments about what you actually get fined), this is the nasty bit; the Court MUST impose Penalty Points, 3-6 and should in severe cases consider disqualification (very rare in my experience).
Apologies for the long post. Nice glass of Gevrey Chambertin or Chablis to those that made it this far - but not if you're driving.
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stencilface
High upon a hillside
I feel like we need to take our wagon to a weighbridge now just to check. There is a VOSA weighbridge not far from us, can you book in to be weighed, does it cost?
Shipley
Well-Known Member
you can go to any public weighbridge I have my lorry loaded with everything except horse and hubby took and weighed it for me also on your mot certificat is the weight as it is weighed then so i just keep an eye
Ladylina83
Well-Known Member
You'll have a public weigh bridge tucked away someewhere on a local industrial estate - should come up on google
fabscd
Well-Known Member
GeeBee45, thank you for that, it is useful to have the rules laid out like that, as it is not always easy to wade through all of the 'rules and regs' to find which bits apply and which don't...that's if they're even written down in the first place!
GeeBee45
Well-Known Member
Officially 'enforcement' weighbridges do not do 'check weighings.' Might be worth popping down there one day and having a quiet word, most folk are only too happy to help out if they can. There is no charge because it cannot be done, if you see what I mean.
GeeBee45
Well-Known Member
If you click on the following link you'll end up on a weighbridge directory at Chris Hodge Truck. Bridges are shown by county with opening times a weight capacity;
http://chrishodgetrucks.co.uk/useful-info/weighbridges.htm
http://chrishodgetrucks.co.uk/useful-info/weighbridges.htm
nikCscott
Well-Known Member
I know someone who travelled over weight (although I'm convinced not knowingly) the brakes couldn't hold it and they flipped. Both horses died.
I only have 1 BWB 16.2hh on my 3.5 with 1 driver 1 set of tack etc and I occasionally have 2x 12hh ponies but always insist the other ponies tack etc is in another car as if the pony is coming so are my 2 children.
I'm starting my HGV lessons soon as the girls will be moving on to bigger ponies in a year or too.
Better to be safe than sorry
I only have 1 BWB 16.2hh on my 3.5 with 1 driver 1 set of tack etc and I occasionally have 2x 12hh ponies but always insist the other ponies tack etc is in another car as if the pony is coming so are my 2 children.
I'm starting my HGV lessons soon as the girls will be moving on to bigger ponies in a year or too.
Better to be safe than sorry
eatmoremincepies
Well-Known Member
Lorries get weighed anyway at plating don't they, and the weight is recorded on the paperwork. So you could load up everything you normally take (except the horses) and get a good idea of the weight. I think they are supposed to be "fully loaded" for the plating but mine never has been!
My 7.5t has a 1.2t payload so can take a horse, pony and small amount of tack/water etc - fine for me but surprisingly little given the size of the truck.
My 7.5t has a 1.2t payload so can take a horse, pony and small amount of tack/water etc - fine for me but surprisingly little given the size of the truck.
ROG
Well-Known Member
This might help -
http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=44667&p=503949#p503949
ADVICE - always visit a LGV training school before parting with any money
No visit = no money
Sagittarius
Well-Known Member
For those who need to be very careful about weight and are concerned about fuel/water - work on 1 kilo per litre. That is accurate for water - a litre of diesel is slightly lighter, but go by the one to one measure to be safe.
Luci07
Well-Known Member
Some people at my yard bought a nice 7.5 lorry specifically so they could carry 3 horses. However, when it was properly checked to ensure it was all legal it was found it only has just over 1 ton as a payload. This is because the people who did up the lorry previously didn't think about the impact of the nice heavy living area, the loo and the very very heavy partitions!. the loo was taken out (actually made a big difference) but currently they stick to 2 horses only as they can't bear to strip out the nice new living. However, seriously worth taking into consideration for anyone thinking of upgrading living/partitions/rubber matting or looking at a 7.5 lorry.
stencilface
High upon a hillside
It makes me annoyed when I see ads for 3 horse 7.5T wagons with a swanky, I know they cannot take 3 horses - 3 ponies maybe. I'm sure our 7.5T has a payload of 2.3T, so plenty enough for 2 horses plus everything, even enough for a weekend away I would think. My friend recently borrowed it for a 3DE and she had it stacked to the rafters, however only had one TB in (and eventers aren't fat ) so would still have been within weight limit.
) so would still have been within weight limit.
Magicmillbrook
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your useful information. Can you explain why when I have my Ministry test for my 5.5t lorry there is a front and rear axle weight test, but when added together they dont seem to make any sense. I was told a year ago that my front axle is close to its limit - but no one seemed to be able to tell me what the front axle limit was. Have gone all jittery and stripped out some of the living just in case! And only carying one horse.
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RobinHood
Well-Known Member
I drove my box onto the weighbridge at the dump opposite us. I was there and back in 5 mins and I know I'm ok with my horse in my 3.5T (it weighed 2.3T).
ecrozier
Well-Known Member
Interesting thread! My lorry is a fairly 'minimalistivc' 7.5t which on the plating certificate weighed just 5.2t. In fact we have to weight the back axle for plating because it's too light with no horses in for the brakes to be fully effective!
But I still wasn't happy when asked to travel 3 x 16.2/16.3hh horses the other day I did it under duress but am sure at approx 600kg each plus us and tack etc we must have been close to the limit! Im glad I now have the argument of brakes etc not working as well to say I won't take 3 big ones!
But I still wasn't happy when asked to travel 3 x 16.2/16.3hh horses the other day
I did it under duress but am sure at approx 600kg each plus us and tack etc we must have been close to the limit! Im glad I now have the argument of brakes etc not working as well to say I won't take 3 big ones!