Has Going Barefoot not worked for anyone ??

Horseback Rider

Horseback Rider

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How long before you dcided to put the shoes back on ?? and what where the deciding factors ?

I am not anti or pro barefoot just had my boys hinds off 2 months ago and not sure he is coping ? or am i jumping the gun ?
 
What are you feeding?

Plenty of people have given up on barefoot and gone back to shoes. Very often this is because they can't or won't get the diet right or don't realise how much of an issue for some horses the diet is. Has your horse had much exposure to the frosted grass that there has been for the last six weeks? Is he now getting a lot of grass which is suddenly growing again with temperatures over 10 degrees? Do you feed stuff with molasses on the bag label (irrespective of whether it says Laminitis safe on the label)? Do you feed Top Spec and/or alfalfa, there are quite a few horses reported with problems with them. Is he fat (be honest :)!)

Any of those could affect whether he will cope barefoot if he had "good" feet to start with.

If he did not have good feet to start with, with thin soles, long toes, underrun heels, lack of digital cushion and possible negative coffin bone angle (which seems to be fairly common on hind feet in shoes) then it is too soon after only 2 months to make a judgement, but you still need to think about the diet.

Hope that helps.
 
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CPTR - He is fed Mollichop Calmer & A&P Calm & Conditon in at night with ad lib hay.
We had a bit of snow over christmas but since then it's just been wet n windy no frost.

He is a TB not overweight can still see his ribs just but he is hard to keep weight on and will always be like that !

He has quite low heels but his hoof & frog look a lot better since the shoes have been off.

He has been on bute for the last week as bruised his sole, but seems to be getting stiffer behind
 
I started mine off unshod, but put front shoes on her because she slipped around so much. And then hind shoes for the same reason.

Hacking in straight lines was fine, but schooling/jumping on grass was treacherous.

She had good hard feet, but rather flat and they just didn't cut into the ground like diddy pony feet do.
 
Like cptrayes said, I know plenty of people who's horses didn't manage barefoot because they didn't get the diet and management right. I have a borderline horse who just copes with the management I can give him: he's grass sensitive and his feet become sensitive if he gets too much grass. I can't take him off grass entirely but try to keep him as suitably as possible (and use his foot sensitivy as a gauge on how his current diet is suiting him!)

TB seems to be extra specially sensitive to diet and it shows in their feet: feed that many breeds of horse could eat no probs and still have rock crunching feet often gives TB's flat splayed, thin soled, crumbling feet. Sods law really as many are poor doers and need extra calories.

What you're feeding now is high in sugars and won't be helping his feet at all. Have you tried changing his diet to something much lower in sugars and starch?

Sounds like his feet have improved already from having his shoes off but have you done too much too soon? Damaged feet take a long time to recover and if you want to continue straight away at the same level of work as with shoes on then you may have to get hoof boots until his feet are able to cope by themselves.
 
I have a welsh D who has never had shoes on and copes great. On our yard we also have a tb mare that the owner took back shoes off with no problem but when she tried the fronts off too the mare wasn't happy and literally flinched over a tiny stone. The yard we are both at is a old cattle yard and the grass is quite rich so although the tb mares owner got her bagged feed right the grass seems to be too much for her mare. So rather than restrict her grazing she has put the front shoes back on and the mare is happy again.
My welsh D is on the same grass but touch wood we dont have any problems. So its not that the tb can't go barefoot its that in the enviroment she is currently in its easier to pop some front shoes on.
I also have a navic tb mare who has been turned out for the winter she is currently field sound and on no medication. She doesn't seem to be overly affected by the grass. If I was you I would get rid of the molichop and use unmollased sugar beet instead to see if that makes a difference.
 
Horseback Rider said:
I am not anti or pro barefoot just had my boys hinds off 2 months ago and not sure he is coping ? or am i jumping the gun ?
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How much work is he doing and on what surface. 2 months isn't long for the foot to have had a chance to adapt to being barefoot. I wouldn't be doing much on any hard surfaces at this stage, they need time to toughen up and grow in some height.

One observation on your diet...mollichop...does that contain molasses as the name suggests? I'd cut it out if it does.
 
Ok thanks all ! Any suggestions on what to feed?

16.2 TB in at night with ad lib hay out in the day grazing not that good a the moment as is the typical TB he can struggle to keep weight on ?

No mixes as they just seem to aggrevate
 
To try and answer the question directly.

Saw one horse who had his shoes removed by farrier who had then crenulated the foot including parts of the sole. Against strong advice the owner continued with previous heavy work load. Not surprisingly horse went foot sore.

Saw another horse. Very thin soled, stretch white line, heavily thinned hoof wall and unhelpful diet. Again owner wanted to carry on and would not allow time to grow a decent hoof, nor buy boots for interim protection. So horse went footsore.

Knowing these horses, I think they would have been fine with someone that had more experience and time.

Equally I have seen horses do just fine, that really, theoretically and according to current expectations should have been really tricky. So it is not black and white.
 
HB for some reason that is not clear a lot of barefoot horses do better on cubes than mixes. My own feeling is that they are lower in molasses, and that being ground up they can use lower quality ingredients which are actually better for the horse. I've had quite a few TBs do very well on the cheapest own-brand cubes you can buy. I have never had a horse do badly on them, even a laminitic. I've also had one TB who refused to put on weight until out of curiosity I stopped the sugar beet. She was well covered within days, but it was a surprising outcome.

If you try straights, then oats are better digested by the horse, apparently, than barley or wheat. Whole oats soaked for 12-24 hours so that they almost germinate are apparently best of all, though I can't vouch for that personally.

Oil is good and you can feed a lot more of it than you might think. You should be able to get it up to 500 ml. I use vegetable oil from the supermarket and have never had a problem with it though I know people who think it's not good for them.

Hind limb stiffness is not uncommon at 2 months. They often produce a characteristic footfall where they pick up the foot, move it forward as if stepping over a box, then put it vertically down. This can last a few weeks, as can "standing under" and is a sign that you should take it cautiously in increasing the work, but it will come right.

Hope that helps



ps achinghips I suspect that by "first class diet" you mean "big brand name", which is often not what barefooters would call a first class diet. Feet often crack because they are too long, people misunderstand how short barefoot feet should be. There is no reason why a TB should not go barefoot. What did you feed?
 
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They also crack because the outer wall has been heavily rasped and it takes a while to grow out. See this quite a bit.

Recent practice has also encouraged the thinking that horses hooves are more fragile than they really are - and that every crack, hole or deviation should be filled, plugged and fretted over.

This horse hadn't read the literature, doesn't know how to use the internet and loves to work and work and work, so she just got on with it.

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/story-of-abscess.html
http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/deviated-hooves-now-you-see-it-now-you.html

The abscess hole and deviation are now completely gone.

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/deviated-hooves-and-abscess-updates.html
 
cptrayes said:
HB for some reason that is not clear a lot of barefoot horses do better on cubes than mixes. My own feeling is that they are lower in molasses, and that being ground up they can use lower quality ingredients which are actually better for the horse. I've had quite a few TBs do very well on the cheapest own-brand cubes you can buy. I have never had a horse do badly on them, even a laminitic. I've also had one TB who refused to put on weight until out of curiosity I stopped the sugar beet. She was well covered within days, but it was a surprising outcome.
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Interesting, my two TBs have both been on the cheapest brand cubes from my local merchant, due to finances. However they're both doing really well in foot and have a nice body weight on them, at just half a scoop per day for each horse! Magic, cheaper to feed than the dog! I don't know what's in them, but I'll make a point of reading the tag.
Bouncing around like 6 year olds, so their feet are feeling mighty fine I think ;)
 
If it's any help I had my horses' hind shoes removed in September and it took til just after xmas (after the snow etc) for him to be happy with them. That is 3 1/2 months. His frog shed loads and has grown back wider and flatter than it was. His feet look really different! His nail holes have also grown out.
I have been feeding a standard vits/mins supplement to make sure he has all the nutrition he needs. He gets no molasses or cereals.
 
My section D mare is unshod. she is not fed anything whatsoever except hay and has lovely, hard feet. She did not have a major adjustment period from being shod to unshod either.

On the other hand, my late sec D gelding had white feet, he was shod on fronts mostly. He used to go lame on both fronts (footsore) pretty badly when they were removed and therefore 'needed' them. He was shod behind for a few months, I then got them removed and he was not sore in the slightest.

I am neither pro nor anti barefoot, just whatever is best for the horse and economically. I will consider getting the mare shod this summer in order for her to wear studs for comps on grass.
 
I put shoes back on but it wasn't because the horse wasn't coping, he was fine. Sound, did a cross country course on artificial landings and was OK on stoney trailer parks. It was me who wasn't coping as I spent the entire time worrying if he would be OK and as at various times of the year his work is very eratic, I was always worrrying that he wouldn't be able to cope on the pleasure ride, or he would slip if I took him to a show. He didn't slip but I worried in case he did! In the summer I tend to ride in the fields a lot more than on the roads, rather than regular road work, due to time constraints. (I always have to worry about something!) I used boots a lot, probably more than was really necessary, and didn't get on too well. Excellent on the roads, loved trotting along in his trainers, but a bit slippy off road.

So had shoes put back on and what a nice return to an easy life, just drag the horse out of the field and go out. But I had his shoes off in the winter, and they are off at the moment and I am giving it another try. On his molasses free diet his feet look good and he is completely sound and raring to go.
 
I think for many and in our modern society that it is too much like hard work. I have a shod Section D, who has never had a problem in shoes, so i don't even think about his feet, i just let the farrier get on with it. My other horse Bailey w is a different story altogether, he is a Rockley Farm rehab, shoes make him lame. So i have to take charge myself and believe me it is not the easy option. The cob will go barefoot when i can manage Bailey with confidence. Because in my heart i know it is better for him despite him being ok in shoes. With Bailey I have gone from not thinking about his feet, only to pick them out and keep and eye on shoes to being obsesed with what he's eating to how he is moving to how he's feeling to how he stands,,,,,,,,,everything........but the pluses far outweigh the negatives but it is hard work. I have seen many people take shoes off and after a week pop them back on because it is all too much and they haven't done their homework.
 
As others have said, diet is so important. My boy didnt have the right diet before he came to me, he was on a mix so it was high in sugar resulting in cracked feet and also infections which im only now getting rid of. I've got him on a low sugar, low starch diet and i add seaweed to his feed, which has already made a difference to his feet. 2 months is still early days, i'd give it a few more months.
 
HB for some reason that is not clear a lot of barefoot horses do better on cubes than mixes.
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I think because of the warmth involved in the pelleting process, and because they are not sprayed with the sugar mixture that some "mueslis" are

And also the material in the pellet is finer ground and gets digested more easily - possibly less getting through to the hindgut undigested.

Just a couple of thoughts.
 
I'd not thought about the grinding process Bruce - that's a big possibility, isn't it? If you damp them, you can see that the raw materials are little more than dust, so extremely high in surface area for the digestive fluids to have a go at. Good thought!
 
Yes, didn't work for me. Went barefoot from beginning of summer which seemed okay but by mid winter when it was wet Archie felt every stone under his fronts particularly. I decided to put his fronts back on. Tried again the next spring/summer and same thing happened. Now has fronts on as he seems to cope much better and I am much happier knowing he won't get sore. Not sure if living out 24/7/365 had anything to do with it as when it was wet he didn't really have chance for his feet to dry.
 
Only didn't work after worming with Pramox which left my tb very very footy. Put shoes on for the summer while it was getting out of her system, but since then she has been brilliant all winter without shoes and I hope to keep her that way.
 
I have problems with Pramox too.

Footiness is strong indicator of dietary problems. Medium/long term the sole will get thinner increasing the likelihood of penetration injuries etc.

UK style wet is only a factor if the hoof/horse is otherwise compromised. The best UK feet I have seen belong to horses living in very suboptimal environments - but they are fed right and worked harder than most.

Thrush can be a problem - but not so much if the horse is working, esp road work, lots of it.
 
hinds off made no difference to my horse

fronts - she was fine on flat surfaces but needed boots for stony ground etc - which was fine for hacking - but you can't use the boots that fitted her feet (old mac's) for jumping - so i have to take them off for xc - and she started to back off jumps with hardcore etc - so i had them put back on

i also needed studs for comps etc - so had all 4 put back on

she's back barefoot now and hacking fine for the time being - will have front back on when i do longer hacks on stony ground (boots were fine for shorter hacks but did rub for longer ones) and willonly put backs back on if i intend to compete this season (which is dabatable as just gone self employed so funds taken up doing that - doh!)
 
It didnt work for me the first time I tried it because my farrier kept taking off the sole callus and my boy went lame.
He's going great guns now thanks to a new farrier and me being more informed!
 
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