Has my competition horse got hock problems???

[Westie1]

My event/working hunter horse has recently been not quite right, he sadly injured his suspensory last season and began work again last july though no competing.
Since around the middle of january, he's been working really peculiar in that he isnt visibly lame from the ground, but when ridden he feels constantly cold backed throughout his ride.
Additionally to this, he keeps kicking out with either hind leg as soon as you get on or particullary when you turn the corner in the areana or on a circle. He is usually a really happy boy, and he's begun looking reallt unhappy and uncomfortable when you try and ride him. He's not a naughty type so I cant think this decends from bad behaviour.

We got the back man out and he couldnt find anything wrong with his back and he couldnt spot any lameness from the ground. Also the saddle seemed to fit fine.

So once the back was ruled out as the problem, we currently are having him on the bute trial and after a few days of having it now, there is no differnence.

Im wondering if this is a hock problem? Though there is no swelling or heat in his hocks.

Also wondering if anyone has had an experience like this before? Its very fustrating as its really unclear what is it as he does not actually look lame atall its just the kicking when worked and the fact he is constantly cold backed whether your on him for 5 mins or 30 mins.

Thanks

 

[PorkChop]

Tbf you haven't really ruled out a back problem, sorry.

What you describe could be attributed to many different conditions. If he is insured I would send him in for a work up.

If not I would start with back and hock x-rays.

A bute trial is a fairly cheap place to start but I have found it doesn't necessarily give a clear indication of pain.

I would also put him on a course of omeprazole or similar as a matter of course.

Hope you find out whats causing the change in behaviour.

 

[ycbm]

Have you called a vet yet?

Nerve block hind legs, back x ray, scan for PSD, hock x rays, nerve block sacroiliac.

 

[lamlyn2012]

How is he on the lunge?
Have you done flexion tests?
I would get a good vet to have a look at him.
Could be leg but could be back.

 

[TheMule]

Unless you backman has x-ray vision you can't rule out a problem with the back and that is where I wiuld start

 

[Westie1]

Have you called a vet yet?

Nerve block hind legs, back x ray, scan for PSD, hock x rays, nerve block sacroiliac.

Yes they advised to try bute test initially and yes thought it could be something to do with nerves as theres no swelling or heat in his hocks, just hope its nothing too serious!

 

[Westie1]

Thank you, Will have to get vet out i think. I was wondering whether maybe the problem in his hocks is causing the problem in his back by over compensating. If you touch his back he doesnt flinch or anything its just the fact hes cold backed

 

[Westie1]

How is he on the lunge?
Have you done flexion tests?
I would get a good vet to have a look at him.
Could be leg but could be back.

Hes fine on lunge doesnt look to have any problems apart from the odd kick out as the start but once he gets into it hes fine, doesnt appear lame atall on the ground.
Yes fine on flexion and yes will do thanks!

 

[ycbm]

Yes they advised to try bute test initially and yes thought it could be something to do with nerves as theres no swelling or heat in his hocks, just hope its nothing too serious!

Nerve blocks are nothing to do with any problem worth the nerves. They just tell you, if you are lucky, which bit of the horse the problem is in. So you nerve block the foot to numb it, and if the horse is still lame then you know the problem is higher up, so you block higher up, and so on.

I'm very surprised that your vet suggested a Bute trial without seeing the horse. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you don't sound like the kind of experienced horse owner who would normally be given prescription drugs without a vet seeing the horse first.

Your 'back man' should also not have seen the horse without the vet seeing it first, since there was a known issue.

Your horse could have kissing spines, hock arthritis, PSD, a sacroiliac strain, loads of other things, even kidney failure (very unlikely, but those were the symptoms mine had). Your plan to get the vet is the right way to go.

 

[Westie1]

Nerve blocks are nothing to do with any problem worth the nerves. They just tell you, if you are lucky, which bit of the horse the problem is in. So you nerve block the foot to numb it, and if the horse is still lame then you know the problem is higher up, so you block higher up, and so on.

I'm very surprised that your vet suggested a Bute trial without seeing the horse. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but you don't sound like the kind of experienced horse owner who would normally be given prescription drugs without a vet seeing the horse first.

Your 'back man' should also not have seen the horse without the vet seeing it first, since there was a known issue.

Your horse could have kissing spines, hock arthritis, PSD, a sacroiliac strain, loads of other things, even kidney failure (very unlikely, but those were the symptoms mine had). Your plan to get the vet is the right way to go.

Im an 18 year old girl and dont know the ins and outs of every muscle and every injurt it could be . After all the thousands of pounds spent last year, we were just reluctant to get the vet out immeditaley. Hes not lame and seems fine on a hack in a straight line, the problem occurs in schooling when turns are involved. We assumed it would be somethung to do with back, so a qualified back specialist came to see him, someone we have used on our previous horses. He said he could find nothing.
We rang the vets who we have used for all the years my family has had horses which is a very long time! They advised, due to last years huge expenses, just to try him on bute before they come out.
If he was in significant pain or anythung like that the vet wouod be round straight away.
I only created this poll to see of anyone has experienced anything like it and if so, what it ended up being. Not to be told im inexperienced when ive had horses since I was 5 and passed my b+ test. I know bits but not everything. Thanks

 

[Fidgety]

If he was in significant pain or anythung like that the vet wouod be round straight away.

And you don't think that

'Additionally to this, he keeps kicking out with either hind leg as soon as you get on or particullary when you turn the corner in the areana or on a circle. He is usually a really happy boy, and he's begun looking reallt unhappy and uncomfortable when you try and ride him. He's not a naughty type so I cant think this decends from bad behaviour.'

is his way of telling you that he's in pain?

Get another vet out. Personally, any vet I called who advocated medicating with bute without even having seen the animal (no matter how long he'd been 'in the family') would be being reported to the RCVS.

 

[ycbm]

Im an 18 year old girl and dont know the ins and outs of every muscle and every injurt it could be . After all the thousands of pounds spent last year, we were just reluctant to get the vet out immeditaley. Hes not lame and seems fine on a hack in a straight line, the problem occurs in schooling when turns are involved. We assumed it would be somethung to do with back, so a qualified back specialist came to see him, someone we have used on our previous horses. He said he could find nothing.
We rang the vets who we have used for all the years my family has had horses which is a very long time! They advised, due to last years huge expenses, just to try him on bute before they come out.
If he was in significant pain or anythung like that the vet wouod be round straight away.
I only created this poll to see of anyone has experienced anything like it and if so, what it ended up being. Not to be told im inexperienced when ive had horses since I was 5 and passed my b+ test. I know bits but not everything. Thanks

Right oh. That's quite a troll type flounce, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt. Youth and ignorance are not a problem as long as you are open to advice.

Your horse 'isn't lame' but doesn't like you mounting and can't turn circles? From the benefit of decades of horse ownership having seen this type of behaviour many times, (exactly the kind of input you posted to get) - your horse is in pain.

I've seen this behaviour twice with kissing spines, once with hock arthritis, once with kidney failure, once with stifle strain, and many times when I don't know what the diagnosis turned out to be.

Get a vet.

 

[SusieT]

You need a vet, the horse is telling you he is uncomfortablte but any number of causes could cause it.

 

[Theocat]

My horse didn't "look lame"either, because she was bilaterally lame in both hinds, but luckily I trusted my instinct and got the vet.

Get the vet out. Either it's nothing serious and doesn't really need a vet, in which case it'll only cost you the call out and examination, or it IS something serious and it DOES need the vet and you really don't want to delay if your horse is in pain (which it sounds like) ...

 

[Birker2020]

Right oh. That's quite a troll type flounce, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt. Youth and ignorance are not a problem as long as you are open to advice.
QUOTE]
gosh do you hear yourself, the girl was asking for advice not someone patronizing telling her she is having a troll like flounce and suggesting she hasn't experience, how the heck would you know, good grief sometimes the responses on here beggar belief.

 

[ycbm]

Right oh. That's quite a troll type flounce, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt. Youth and ignorance are not a problem as long as you are open to advice.
QUOTE]
gosh do you hear yourself, the girl was asking for advice not someone patronizing telling her she is having a troll like flounce and suggesting she hasn't experience, how the heck would you know, good grief sometimes the responses on here beggar belief.

Why are you on this forum, exactly? You seem to have done nothing but tell us all we are horrible bullies since you joined. Are you having fun here ?

 

[Birker2020]

Why are you on this forum, exactly? You seem to have done nothing but tell us all we are horrible bullies since you joined. Are you having fun here ?

I've told you till I am blue in the face why I am on here so if you aren't hearing me that's not my faultI I will not repeat myself to you.You were very patronizing, like 'the big I am' and all your replies to those who are novice, inexperienced or plain curious are in the same sort of vein.your superior attitude to her question and demeaning answer only shows you up in a poor light.So yes it the cap fits and all of that... why not just say 'get the vet out!' 'Youth and ignorance are not a problem' Jeeez what a belittling attitude. 'Lets give you the benefit of the doubt' -REALLY??????

 

[Asha]

Im an 18 year old girl and dont know the ins and outs of every muscle and every injurt it could be . After all the thousands of pounds spent last year, we were just reluctant to get the vet out immeditaley. Hes not lame and seems fine on a hack in a straight line, the problem occurs in schooling when turns are involved. We assumed it would be somethung to do with back, so a qualified back specialist came to see him, someone we have used on our previous horses. He said he could find nothing.
We rang the vets who we have used for all the years my family has had horses which is a very long time! They advised, due to last years huge expenses, just to try him on bute before they come out.
If he was in significant pain or anythung like that the vet wouod be round straight away.
I only created this poll to see of anyone has experienced anything like it and if so, what it ended up being. Not to be told im inexperienced when ive had horses since I was 5 and passed my b+ test. I know bits but not everything. Thanks

A friend of mine had a horse similar, was ok in straight lines, but going round in circles he would be in pain ( ridden)

it turned out to be kissing spines. I would start with his back, and get it xrayed, and go from there.

good luck, and I hope you get him sorted

 

[ycbm]

I've told you till I am blue in the face why I am on here so if you aren't hearing me that's not my faultI I will not repeat myself to you.You were very patronizing, like 'the big I am' and all your replies to those who are novice, inexperienced or plain curious are in the same sort of vein.your superior attitude to her question and demeaning answer only shows you up in a poor light.So yes it the cap fits and all of that... why not just say 'get the vet out!' 'Youth and ignorance are not a problem' Jeeez what a belittling attitude. 'Lets give you the benefit of the doubt' -REALLY??????

OK got you. You're on the forum to be the self appointed guardian against anyone not posting in the style you would prefer. My response was, ime, completely appropriate to the tone in which my second post on the thread was replied to. I'm sorry you didn't like it, but it wasn't addressed to you and the OP seems well able to stick up for herself


Have you got anything to add to the thread which will help the OP, or did you join it just to put me in my place ?

 

[ester]

Even the OP said she was posting for similar experiences so I'm not sure just being told to 'get the vet out' would have been appreciated either, I think it is much better that people give their reasoning as to why they are saying what they are.

Westie it doesn't sound more like a hock issue than anything else and once a horse has had an issue it can have compensatory issues after. I would tell your vet that the Bute has made no difference - and this doesn't mean it isn't pain it rarely helps with kissing spines for instance and get them to come out.

 

[cobgoblin]

He's cold backed when you ride him, doesn't like being mounted despite a well fitting saddle and doesn't like bending .... All really sounds like a problem with his spine.

 

[Birker2020]

OK got you. You're on the forum to be the self appointed guardian against anyone not posting in the style you would prefer. My response was, ime, completely appropriate to the tone in which my second post on the thread was replied to. I'm sorry you didn't like it, but it wasn't addressed to you and the OP seems well able to stick up for herself


Have you got anything to add to the thread which will help the OP, or did you join it just to put me in my place ?

sorry I couldn't reply last night I got dragged kicking and screaming into a meeting that was boring as he** but yes I agree with all that's been said the Op does need to get a vet to give the horse a lameness evaluation.these days it goes under the banner of 'poor performance' to encapsulates all that may be wrong with the horse without giving direct emphasis on one particular part of the body so the insurance company don't start whipping out there exclusion booklet and shoving exclusions on the animal some times you needto bite the bullet and just get it looked at as going on guessing gets you know where.

 

[Goldenstar]

Well my experience is that when horses show behaviours like OP described what they need is a problems with performance type work up from a vet that specialises in that type of work .
Many many things could cause theses symptoms of pain the horse is showing .
Bute can help you decide that the horse is in pain but you can not and must not rule out pain because no change is seen during the period of time the horse is on the pain relief .
Many types of pain are not responsive to anti inflammatory drugs .
It's not ethical to just let a horse soldier on and it's not relevant what was spent last year .
This all just part and parcel of having a horse .

 

[Birker2020]

It's not ethical to just let a horse soldier on and it's not relevant what was spent last year .
This all just part and parcel of having a horse .

Of course.I know of someone who has always put her horse first and gone without spending upwards of 15K =her and her insurance on her horse over the decade or more she has had him but then others just don't bother and have a see how you go attitude