has someone ever made you do something you wish you hadn't?

Sometimes it can be hard to get the right balance particularly when only going to a one off lesson or clinic with a new trainer.
I had a bad experience with a top german rider that completely confused my horse when I was told to ride one time changes using only one leg aid :eek: :confused:

But as a trainer it can be very hard to judge how hard to push someone as a new pupil but I think erring on the side of caution is best and you have to listen to the rider as they know the horse better than you.

It can be hard as sometimes to correct bad habits things can get worse for aperiod of time while a change is happening and some riders will not accept this, I would always tell them if I thought this was going to happen tho so they were warned.
 
Saratoga said:
When i was younger yes, and in awe of the person teaching. Now i will stop and say something if it feels wrong. Although sometimes you have to try and trust the person teaching as they may be right and it will work if you keep at it, but at the start feels wrong. Can depend on the trainer, the horse, the accuracy of the feel and the trust you have in that person.

But i think all people should be able to speak up and say they don't want to do something and why, no matter who is teaching. As long as you do it in a polite manner it should never be a bad thing.
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I agree with Saratoga. When I was considerably younger I took a young horse for a XC lesson with an event trainer (who still teaches but is not BE accredited and who has the same BHS qualification as I do) and against my instincts asked the horse to jump a fence again resulting in her and I tipping up. There was no lasting damage but I learnt a valuable lesson and it has stayed with me.
 
it must be really hard for trainers to know how hard to push some people. Ive been really lucky dont think ive ever had a major problem in lessons, had one with a big name trainer last yr he completely confused my mare but she got over it, had another with my old horse with another well know eventer he wasnt very talented and it was done through my normal instructor so he warned him not to push me too hard.↲ive had the same instructor for 4 yrs now and he knows how i tick and how hard to push me when jumping, he likes me to jump much bigger at home so the fences look tiny out competing. The only time we had a problem was last yr when i lost my job i could barely jump 2ft and just wanted to cry my confidence was shot as i felt so low but it soon bounced back. It really demonstrates how important it is to have someone who knows you and the horse.
 
A couple of experiences - one an 'experienced' eventer training me (I found out a lot of things about her after leaving that I didn't like and would never recommend her) - horse came to me with really sore, cut mouth. Spent a long time in hackamore with tons of Camrosa and it all healed up, but about 4 months in she asked me to put snaffle in (mouth had healed to look at but I knew the skin needed time to strengthen). I wasn't sure but she was the 'experienced' one so I did it. Put it in at correct height and of course first lesson like this horse objected a bit because mouth was not ready and still tender. So instead of taking it out, she raised the bit in his mouth so it was ridiculously high and must have hurt him (I almost had to undo cheek pieces to take bridle off at end of lesson as couldn't get it over his ears, it was that tight!), tightened his noseband AND put a flash on tight, and proceeded to haul him around, boot him in the ribs etc. It was horiffic and needless to say his mouth opened up again and I was back to square 1. I was devestated that I'd let it happen and cried my eyes out about it. And of course never went back - following the lesson (about a week after) spoke to her very calmly, said I thought she had been entirely wrong and there were a couple of other things she'd said to me which i totally disagreed with. We ended on relatively amicable terms - she apologised for upsetting me (but not for the way she'd been with the horse) and we went our separate ways.

Second one was really my own fault and the fact that I put too much trust in a friend. Bought horse 3 years ago - SJ breeding and background although not done it for a year and very spooky and still green. By far the most talented horse (in terms of potential) I've ever had and this went to my head. Started BSJA BN and Disc going well and building confidence so moved up to Newc - went reasonably well although looking back I know this was down to the horse being genuine and trying to help me. So got cocky and said to friend (who has years of experience, has worked on SJ yards etc. and had been coming to comps with me) did she think we should have a go at the British Open 1.20 Amateur classes. She said we should do so we did a schedule to build up to the qualifiers which lasted about 3 months with a show every weekend. I.e. going from British Novices to 1.20's in under a year.

I have no doubt that the horse would have had the ability but at the end of the day I had no experience at that level and the technicality of the courses meant we came totally unstuck. I was totally carried away with the scope the horse had and his genuineness and pushed him far too fast. So dropped him right back down but his confidence was shot and we struggled to jump round 90cm without at least one stop, if not elimination. Result being that, 2 years on, he's had 8 months off jumping focussing on flatwork 'back to basics' (because although I schooled him a lot his flatwork wasn't strong enough for the tracks I put him at) and has now started all over again at BN. He's going well and becoming consistent again but I'll never forgive myself for the fact that I nearly wrecked this wonderful horse because I got too carried away with his ability and didn't wait for his brain to catch up.

I wasn't 'made' to do this, it was my idea, but I sought reassurance that we were ready from someone supposedly far more experienced in this area who I thought would tell me if she thought it was too much for either one of us (she doesn't pull her punches). I realise now that, not wanting to do those heights herself she nevertheless wanted to get back into that 'world' with some of the old top level people she used to knock about with - and she used me to do this. I can't blame her entirely, I could have stopped at any point but was blinded by my total faith in her that she would do the right thing by me and the horse...
 
I AM SOOOO GLAD THE TOP TRAINERS THINGIE HAPPENS TO OTHERS!!!! i went to a pony club rally, had an amzing time, so went back for more, just a lesson with me and my friend...
my young chap is a veryyyy sensitive chap and at the time, un known to us, his saddle didnt fit him anywhere!! poor poor dash..
he was being very tight in the back and not going on the bit, and i knew something was wrong,
so, she said yes, he doesnt look too good.. fat lady then gets on him!! little 15hh small biuld and this lady is big.. carted him round the school, poor chap was getting himself into a terrible shape, the others friends mum said dont worry she knows what she is doing...
still no improvement after 15mins, so .. off she jumps, puts him on a lunge line and gallops him round in a tight circle :( :( :( :(
poor poor dash.. he did not know what to do with himelf and in the end was just standing there shaking..
"£35 then please" er... me: what shall i do with him? her: i dunno.. go and send him to a trainer or something.. he needs to be schooled properly!!
6 months later.. i am still trying to get his canter soft and non hurried
its the top trainer thingie.. they think because why they are ,.. they can push them! :(
(not all of them are like that tho!)
 
LEC said:
One poster made a very valid point that you do need to speak up in lessons. Its very difficult to judge what you have in front of you if you have absolutely no feedback. Also its a fine line between pushing someone and destroying confidence. I am really clear when discussing with trainers my expectations and what I want to improve and through this I have never had a bad experience only disappointing ones. Ultimately you know your horse best and you are not going to offend anyone by being clear about maybe starting a little smaller and build up.
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echo this.... having arranged a few XC clinics, its really hard with people that you/ the trainer doesn't know well to be sure you pitch it right, but the key is to actually discuss it, I think.

Equally, when you know and trust a trainer, I think that's then the joy of finding a great trainer you feel that way about - he/ she can point you at a jump, tell you that you can do it and maybe it's one you might not have otherwise had the confidence you can do but because they've said they think you can, you then believe you can and off you go! I think, though, I'd be worried about a trainer telling me that on a "first date" so to speak... I'd want to build up a relationship first so you know you can trust their judgement/ you know they know the scope of your horse, etc.

Funnily enough, my worst lessons have been dressage, not jumping. Had a few bad experiences of some pretty high up dressage trainers basically getting me to push the horse forward and haul it in at the front end and then wondering why I felt like my arms had a work out and my horse was miserable and stressed. I went through a bit of a phase of assuming that because the trainer rides at a certain level they must know something I don't about how to achieve that dreamed of outline and all that stuff. I've been around a bit more since then and realise that while some trainers do it that way, it doesn't have to be done that way and more importantly I don't want to do it that way. We all live and learn and sadly sometimes our horses pay the price with us. Fortunately, though, I think mostly our horses forgive us.
 
LEC said:
One poster made a very valid point that you do need to speak up in lessons. Its very difficult to judge what you have in front of you if you have absolutely no feedback. Also its a fine line between pushing someone and destroying confidence. I am really clear when discussing with trainers my expectations and what I want to improve and through this I have never had a bad experience only disappointing ones. Ultimately you know your horse best and you are not going to offend anyone by being clear about maybe starting a little smaller and build up.
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And even if you do make someone raise their eyebrows, if they're that good they'll get over it. ;) People seem to forget when they go for lessons they're the consumer. That doesn't mean you set the agenda - that is, after all, presumably what you're paying someone more experienced to do - but you do have the right to value for money and getting whatever you're help you're there for IF it's possible. (I can tell you though, the real trouble comes from people who INSIST on doing more than they're capable of. And remember, clinicians/instructors feel pressured too. If you come saying "I want to jump Novice tracks - or even just sign up for the Novice group - but it turns out you're struggling to jump an x but you get shirty when the instructor points out the obvious problem, it's almost always a recipe for unhappiness if not outright disaster.)

The other problem with people going to "top" trainers is they've often paid a lot and jumped through a few hoops to be there, so they're loath to do anything that they think might lessen the calibre of the experience and/or anger someone they admire. But again, a truly high calibre trainer shouldn't care what little ole you think. ;) All joking aside, really good people who care about horses, riders and teaching, don't need to prove anything.
 
There's two instructors who teach for my branch of the PC (thankfully, one of them doesn't do much for them anymore) that I will purposefully avoid rallies with. One is just because I just don't feel that they 'teach' - if I wanted to ride round I'd do it at home :p But the other was teaching at Wilby's first ever rally and, bearing in mind he'd only just started jumping, kept trying to make me pull him in tight circles before every single jump 'to slow him down' - I told her he was diving because he was unbalanced and was on the verge of just leaving, but my DC was there aswell and stuff so I carried on, and ended up with one hell of a confused horse who it took ages to straighten out and slow down afterwards... She also told me he 'had something wrong in the head' - no, he's just a young TB :p

Thankfully we haven't had that many bad lessons! I'm quite strong minded though which I guess helps.
 
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Yes an instructor told me that I had to ride with extremely short reins, he was unable to go forwards properly I was perched out of the saddle, obviously poor horse didn't know what he was being asked to do so planted to the spot and refused to move. I was more annoyed at myself for letting it happen.
Also ended up buying a gp of saddler when what I wanted was a jump saddle but got convinced it was a brilliant fit on him...half hour after he left realised my stupidity and called him back out for a jump saddle! Cost me extra £40 for another call out...idiot.
 
Yes at a one off clinic on my last horse. Were doing SJ exercises indoors in front of an audience - fences just went up and up and tbh had no confidence in the horse anyway as she was not an easy ride to sj. Horse was flustered and so was I...not an enjoyable experience!
 
Ive only ever had one lesson with a 'big' name and was quite forthright about myself and my horses abilities and I think she was grateful I had the nerve to speak up.

If a horse and rider look to be going well its often hard for a one off trainer (ie bigger names often coaching as a sideline) to notice that there are cracks appearing. IMO I am lucky as my horses do not even attempt to look straightforward, but have noticed with them whenever they do ride easier that trainers often get stars in their eyes about how far you can get to in a session.
 
Yep :( have actually had it happen on both horses.
Roo had jumped probably five times last summer and we went to a clinic with a reasonably well known trainer. There was an accident on the motorway and several people didn't make it there so they amalgamated groups....and instead of being with another big green youngster we ended up with a 10 year old that had been out team chasing and hunting all winter. Now Roo has scope to burn, however I want him to be stronger and more established on the flat before we put the fences up as height is no great issue to him. We popped over a x pole and the trainers eyes lit up....everything went straight to 90cm, and garish fillers appeared. I did say I wasn't sure he was ready for this, esp the one stride double (he had never jumped a double before) and lo and behold it was a mess - he either stopped or massively overjumped everything......and its a tiny school so we were unbalanced and all over the place. He kept telling me I need to get cross and get the upper hand over Roo - tbh he has never once challenged what he is being asked to do so I have never needed to bully him!!!
By the end of the lesson he had jumped through the double and was doing all the fillers but I really hadn't enjoyed the lesson and came away thinking 'how am i ever going to ride this horse properly'. Normal instructor sympthised and we dropped it all back down to 60cm and placing poles in double etc....4 months later and he is popping confidently round 85cm and it will make zero difference adding another 10 or 20 cm when he comes back into work next month. I'm lucky he is chilled out soul and wasn't more upset by the experience long term.
And with J, went to a BE JT thing. Warm up instructor basically said 'good job, well done' so I went in feeling quite confident. Popped round, one pole down. Instructor tore me to shreds saying I need to ride in a forward seat at all times and J needs to be travelling forward more on a longer stride.....accepted he knew best, went round for my second go - crashed through 3 fences and had a stop in middle of double! Went home VERY deflated and upset. Went to new instructor following week (same one as now always teaches me SJ) and explained, she watched us try a course both styles, and said there is no way my little 14.2hh not very scopey arab can jump off a forward travelling canter like the other guy suggested as he ends up on his forehand and can't release his shoulder to get up in front of a fence like a bigger horse. Went back to jumping from a more bouncy uphill canter and not looked back since!
 
reading this, makes me feel sad people cant stand up to trainers/instructors and say no!

I woludnt want to loose confidence because i couldnt say no! i have refused to do things before in lessons - i will continue to do so for whats best for me and my horse :)
 
HotToTrot said:
Oh, you must have been out in Norfolk!
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Is it mainly Norfolk packs which do this then? I didn't realise it was unusual... though I have only ever hunted in Norfolk, and usually on horses/ ponies which pretty much only canter!

For me, no. I'm very strong willed, and have no qualms in saying no. From when I was pretty young I have always stopped a little too early, rather than pushing it. I think this comes from having a strong opinion and being quite nervy at times- it means that once I've decided to bottle it, you really can't change my mind! Even when I was 11, I refused to go in and do a second SJ round on my pony because he'd just done his first ever clear and I didn't want to push it...

I was discussing this with my mum and sister, and I think it's also helped that my mum has always been present at lessons and she respects our opinions on how our horse is going so if we said no and the instructor tried to push it, she'd step in for us. Though I can't really remember ever having this happen either!
 
I wont say I was 'made' to do anything, I merely tried what was suggested.... horse knew it's job, instructor had me 'fiddling' her into the fence, saying too much basically! Horse wondered what on earth I was doing, ended up scrambling through the jump, poles everywhere, took off. Pulled her up and made the fatal mistake of saying that I really don't think that way was ever going to work for us/her, and that the way another instructor had taught me suited the horse better :o Well, I was not so politely told that I might as well leave, which I did, quite gladly :) Annoying thing being that instructor had seen this horse jump several times previously/taught me for long enough, there was no need for it! So in hind sight, I wish I hadn't tried it, but it could have been much worse.
 
noodle_ said:
reading this, makes me feel sad people cant stand up to trainers/instructors and say no!

I woludnt want to loose confidence because i couldnt say no! i have refused to do things before in lessons - i will continue to do so for whats best for me and my horse :)
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I do think it's hardly ever that simple. It's rarely a case of the instructor saying "do x", it's usually more more progressive or, more properly, regressive. Plus, presumably people have gone to the instructor because they want his/her opinion so they're hardly going to start arguing at the first sign of trouble, especially since it's often difficult to tell if the inevitable rocky moments will lead to a breakthrough or a disaster unless you're very experienced. After all, experience is what you get five minutes after you need it. ;)
 
TarrSteps said:
I do think it's hardly ever that simple. It's rarely a case of the instructor saying "do x", it's usually more more progressive or, more properly, regressive. Plus, presumably people have gone to the instructor because they want his/her opinion so they're hardly going to start arguing at the first sign of trouble, especially since it's often difficult to tell if the inevitable rocky moments will lead to a breakthrough or a disaster unless you're very experienced. After all, experience is what you get five minutes after you need it. ;)
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Yes I do think it is really hard to say as it all depends on the outcome imho

If someone pushes you a little out your comfort zone and you get that nagging voice that says no but you do it anyway and it comes off you have an inspirational lesson.

If someone pushes you a little out your comfort zone and you get that nagging voice that says no but you do it anyway and it goes pear shape you go "knew I should have listened to my inner voice, I was pushed too far, all instructors fault etc"

In retrospect the same nagging voice can be viewed in completely different ways....
 
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