Has the discipline of horse management gone out the window in modern times???

Wandered into this one a bit late I'm afraid, been out feeding mummy's ghastly chickens.

Not going to get time to wash the ponies beastly little tails with the soap flakes now - Captain Cholly-Sawcutts going to go ape***** at the gymkhana tomorrow.
 
How dare you accuse me of being new money? It's jolly bad form to discuss financial situations. I suspect from your lack of etiquette you didn't make it to finishing school. How frightfully vulgar you are.
 
littlelegs said:
How dare you accuse me of being new money? It's jolly bad form to discuss financial situations. I suspect from your lack of etiquette you didn't make it to finishing school. How frightfully vulgar you are.
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That's me vulgar , I have made a career of it.
And I have three brother and we will need someone for the younger ones some will add you to the list Daddy keeps in his desk drawer no no dont thank me honestly it's nothing.
( I did not go to finishing school because I only get out of the attic certain times of the month and my pony would hate Switzerland .)
 
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Crikey chaps Cordelia here so sorry to be late to this thread but I was busy in the tuck shop eating all the Jammy dodgers. Is the gymkhana still on for tomorrow? Can't wait it is so exciting to see ones chums and ride my pony shadow. I think we should have a midnight feast tonight and make tents from our blankets ... and eat more cake. How jolly I must write a thank you letter to mummy and daddy for my wonderful life.
 
I have a book (2 volumes) for the gentleman farmer, that was written about 150 years ago. It has beautiful pictures and elaborate stories, care of livestock and horses, hunting, carriage horses, racing horses, pigs, cattle, poultry, sheep, dogs, shooting and fishing and making sure you get good value out of your grooms etc, and that they adequately groom and care for your horses. My dad picked it up at a red cross sale in 1945. My gran kept it for him till we visited uk in 1976, and I have had it ever since.
 
Well I think it's a bit harsh for everyone who can't keep those schedules. Horse ownership today has more people who can afford horses through hard work. So they really can't have that kind of schedule.

As far as turning out, it's for their mental and physical health and not convience. It would be more convient to not have horses covered in muck at night. In my experience with mud fever, if it is actual mud fever and it's quite easy to clear. But sometimes it can be a little tougher to heal. Those that can be sensitive year round are usually suffering from some sort of photo sensitivity. I don't think it's straight forward nor do I most owners leave horses covered in rot. And I do feel it's a system problem and not just mud. Otherwise every horse would suffer.

We work with horses for a living and we do not have that kind of schedule. Would drive us and the horses mental. Yet we have healthy shiny horses. And while accidents happen to horses at any time anyplace, I think being out in all sorts teaches them to take care of themselves.

But I think all common sense has definitely gone out the window in regards to horses. Last night I went out to the barn and noticed 2 with tossed stables and they were a little warm. Horses were agitated as well. I was concerned and said so to hubby. Landlord was there. He is not horsie but likes having them. Awww, how cute. Anyway he says, oh Niamh let Little Billy go and she wandered down to your horses. And then says I think one may have kicked the Walls. Well isn't that great you moron. So I ask why my board(separates my end from idiots) wasn't up. Oh, I had to take it down to get the haylage in. Ok so why couldn't you put it up before you brought horses in? I forgot. Well I said you better hope mine are ok. Trivial but who let's horses just wander for a hello. Maybe people do but I don't because it's stupid. In a barn like.

But really this isn't the first time. My horses were out at the time but a vet, yes really, and his assistant let their horses ramble around the barn aisle because it snowed and they needed exercise. So they pulled over my hay, craped in my aisle, and knocked over my brush buckets. Apparently horses can't go out in snow but it's ok to wander around the barn aisle and destroy things. When I happened upon the scene, sparks were coming off shoes as the dived around destroying the place. If you have your own barn, I just don't care what you do, but otherwise you have to keep others in mind. Needless to say, that didn't happen again. It goes along with not putting water out with your horses in freezing weather because they can get their water from snow like the wild horses. I guess the irony was lost on someone who had 4 shoes on her horse, 500grams of rugs on an Unclipped horse, and put hay out so they wouldn't have to forage.

I want to know where common sense went!

Terri
 
OP - my training was centred around your 'day' mentioned in the 1st post.

These days am far more relaxed & tho I do keep to a routine (it suits me!) with a 6am arrival, I'm far easier about times thereafter. However feet picked out daily, a quick quarter before riding, stables set fair & yard swept before leaving the yard daily - are all part of my routine as is so ingrained.
However - I do only clean my tack once a week (religiously) but it is only weekly :o
 
Good gracious! OP may or may not be a person with noisy feet who spends a lot of time looking carefully under poorly maintained bridges: however, our horses did follow the OP's management routine. They went out every day too. My current horse follows a similiar routine and appears to be a happy loon! Having high standards is not necessarily A Bad Thing, but rigidity is not helpful. And, I wear a hairnet to ride (and so does my groom) because we like to look tidy, and it keeps hair out of the way! No bridges here either!
 
i remember working as a groom 30 years ago..the routine sounds very familiar.
The horses were immaculate, with those neat little lines wherethey had been fired,
They spent all winter going off their heads stabled 24 hours a day..and all summer hobbling round the fells when they stopped the bute. We worked all the hours for peanuts but did it because we could never dream of owning our own horses.
I ve got my own horse now at last and he is out 24/7 with ad lib hay and a hard feed in the morning, in short hes as bright as a button and totally chilled...hmmmm .
No Im not hankering after the old days!
 
I think some owners are more wishy washy.Horse Psychology...most of the owners need to be sorted first. And I agree get the back person out is the answer for all problems. Most owners are the problem nowadays very few good genuine horse people around. Most people cant see further than the end of their noses.

However mud fever I remember seeing that a lot in the wet weather. Saddle sores were a lot more common and girth sores(those horrid string girths........). Dreaded sheepskin numnahs now you have a lovely selection.

I do remember horses were stabled a lot more(posh perfect yards did that) and I use to feel sorry for them they had to be ridden for ie one hour a day and then popped back.Thats why you hear a lot more people now turn out. Not cos they are lazy they know it makes happier horses.

But I dont remember vaccinations, dentist, worming, feeds(Oats and linseed if you were ill or worked hard)no fly spray but fly fringes and lemon balm on a cloth for flies. I remember no feet problems ie hooves all shoes on. All plain snaffle. Dutch gag was for something wild and uncontrollable. But never saw it. Vets visit was hardly ever(castration thats it).

Outdoor clothing is much more practical now too & warmer. Good and bad of both eras. Youngsters are lazier than in the past. I got a bread and butter roll for working all day saturday and same on sunday,no pay just ride for free.
 
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Well what a lovely idilic life that routine would be! Nowadays I am afraid there is something called 'earning a living' that prevents us in time to spend the entire day 'managing' our horses!
My horse in winter for example is never groomed until I need to ride and then I clean the mud off his saddle, girth and head areas...the rest is still covered in mud!
My lad is not rugged during the winter and is turned out every day (he canters out of his stable every morning happiliy into his field). He is turned out in all weathers, lashing rain, howling gales, knee deep snow...the lot. I have never seen him suffer from any ill effects because of this or because of my lack of management! It can be lashing rain all day and the hair underneath at the roots is bone dry and he is plenty warm.
My horse is my main 'interest' outside of work, he is my leisure and pleasure time and does not need strict management as such for him to be a horse and me to enjoy having him in my life.
 
Just out of interest are people under the impression that horse owners 30 years ago didnt work or didnt have busy scedules??? Ask your mum or dad if it was easier 30 years ago.

We did have jobs and had to do things with out the aid of technology that you have today.

I do not understand why people think its ok to just clean a portion of your horse, if its stood there and youve got your kit out clean the whole body for goodness sake its just laziness not to. Do you wake up in the morning and wash 1/2 your face or brush 1/2 your hair??

As for the troll comments, borrrrrrrrrring, just because I have the ability to start a conversation on this site doesnt make me a troll, its good to have different opinions on subjects it makes us all think a bit.
 
my mare seems to cope just fine living out 24/7 365 thank you

and yes i just brush saddle area/bridle area when i ride - never the legs unless going somewhere - its when i used to brush/wash the legs that she got mudfever - better for her to keep her own oils/natural barriers

and as for stabling - just try her if you want - you can pay the bill when she breaks down the door and goes back to the field (her usual trick ;))
 
I think what we're forgetting is 30/40yrs ago the average woman didn't have a good career with early starts & late finishes, or young kids & a ft job. And I very much doubt their were single parents with kids & ft jobs. People with disabilities or long term illness wouldn't have had help making jobs accessible, therefore wouldn't have had the income to make it necessary to look after a horse at the end of a tiring day. Disposable income has increased, so the average young working couple can afford a horse. There's been loads of development, meaning people travel further to the yard than 30/40 yrs ago. So its social dynamics that have changed, with the side effect of changing horse management.
 
patch1234 said:
Just out of interest are people under the impression that horse owners 30 years ago didnt work or didnt have busy scedules??? Ask your mum or dad if it was easier 30 years ago.

We did have jobs and had to do things with out the aid of technology that you have today.

I do not understand why people think its ok to just clean a portion of your horse, if its stood there and youve got your kit out clean the whole body for goodness sake its just laziness not to. Do you wake up in the morning and wash 1/2 your face or brush 1/2 your hair??

As for the troll comments, borrrrrrrrrring, just because I have the ability to start a conversation on this site doesnt make me a troll, its good to have different opinions on subjects it makes us all think a bit.
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I really do think that the 'discipline' of having an immaculate horse is simply outdated and impractical nowadays. The horse is coming to no harm not being fully groomed to within an inch of its life every day, and I'd rather an owner actually spent time riding and enjoying their horse than farting about for appearance's sake.

Where appearance is important then fair enough, (thinking along the lines of the military, police, royalty etc) but for the average owner, does it really matter that the horse hasn't been strapped that day? It often isn't laziness, but a fact that many work long hours combined with a commute with travel to do the horses and have families to see to as well as other commitments. If they can make life easier for themselves and the horse is not coming to any harm then I can't see a problem.

I've done the whole disciplined thing of keeping horses immaculate and currently have a native that is happily out with minimal grooming and enjoing being a horse. No complaints or health issues from her or me.
I don't even go out to work, so I must be a right lazy cow, and our tb's were often turned away with just the basics done back in the day, they were often happier and healthier than the stabled fussed over animals.
 
patch1234 said:
Around 30/40 years ago horse owners were incredibly more disciplined in their own management of horses. I dont mean farm horses or similar but riding horses.

For example my day was as follows:
6.00 - arrive at yard check all horses are well.
6.15 - 6.30am feed all horses and put up small net.
7.00 remove feed buckets, change rugs if necessary, skip out.
8.00 lightly groom those to be ridden
8.30 - 10.30 tack up and ride
10.30 full groom including strapping if necessary
12.00 tack cleaning
1.00 2nd feed and small net
Lunch
2.00 remove feed buckets skip out
3.00 ride those not ridden in the morning then groom
5.30 skip out 3rd feed and large hay net, change rugs, set fair
8.30 (if on evening check) check horses fill nets check all is well, skip out if necessary.
We always had to look smart, hair back no jewellery, clean clothes.
Our horses were always groomed and tidy, I hardly ever heard of colic, laminitis or back problems.
If we could turn out we did, more so in summer, but they always came in and were tidied up.
Mud fever was very rarely heard of as we kept the legs clean and dry.
Today I know people who turn up to yard at about 10am, throw them out in all weathers even if its a gale so they dont have to do the stables.
Others I know keep out 24/7 horses are covered in mud fever, rain scald.
I know this is not all horse owners but there is definately a lack of discipline these days. I know people work but there is still no exscuse for not putting the extra time into your horses.
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So know what you mean - so frustrating that people these days horses overfed, overrugged and under worked. They have every ailment under the sun and the latest craze - they can't eat grass!

Horses were generally always sound and we trotted on the tarmac for around 1hour everyday. Only fat native ponies got laminitis. The ponies never wore rugs in winter. The stabled horses wore a wool lined jute rug and once clipped a striped Witney blanket. We didn't use saddle blankets or numnahs and the horse only wore a snaffle bridle with a cavesson noseband - and heaven forbid it had a single joint!

I miss those days as I see grooms around me who wouldn't have a clue how many dungs their horse had done each day - don't notice the state of the box or even if the horse has eaten its feed from the night before. We fed four to five times a day with last feed at 10pm stables. We fed oats, barley, sugarbeet and linseed which we boiled for hours.
 
I say! That does sound like a spiffing routine Patch.

It wouldn't do very well for my hippy-beliefs. I can talk to my horses you see. From a distance. They say they like the world to look blue and green. Watch the eagles take to flight. (I keep telling them they are buzzards but they don't believe me).

See, look, Buzzards. Tsk.

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I agree that many are overfed and overrugged nowadays, but there is more at play than just that at creating laminitic/metabolic issues I think.

Our grasslands have changed dramatically with the use of high nitrogen fertilisers when it used to be the remnants of the cow byre that went on the land; herbicides are used much more widely and anthelmintics/vaccines are added to the horses system more regularly.

Add to that the fact that most horses were hacked to events rather than boxed and nowadays there are horses that have to be boxed in order to hack safely, it is a changing world and past methods aren't applicable in the same way. I for one am thankful that I no longer have to spend hours boiling linseed and barley.

Not noticing whether a horse has done sufficient droppings or eaten its feed is bad management regardless of the methods used.

Those that were lame or ill were often shipped off to the knackers yard, nowadays people persevere with what would have been 'hopeless' years ago. Horses still broke down just the same, and I well remember the saddle sores on school ponies from badly fitted tack
 
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patterdale said:
*trots smartly back into thread on Black Boy*

*retreats hurriedly back to the orchard, horrified at the serious turn it has taken overnight*







Sorry it's probably my fault, but I'm always up for a macaroon, and the neighbouring farmers wife will likely come out with a basket of pork pies and ginger beer if we call by on our next jollly hack. :D
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I have to say that I've been really lucky in my experiences with other people and how they look after their horses.

And whilst we may not all subscribe to the original posts's management - I can say hand on heart that where I've kept my horses the standards of care have been really excellent.

Who cares if a horse has a rug on that it might not need during the winter? Who cares if the horse gets a little too much feed, and not quite enough exercise? Providing its needs are taken care of in a proficient and caring manner - that's all that really matters.

The mention, though, of back problems is a particularly interesting one. Back problems weren't an issue many years ago, because it really wasn't a consideration for many. Saddle bought (not particularly fitted) slapped on and that was it. Physios - what were they? How many horses do we see nowadays with white hair on their backs and whither areas? Not many.

Routine medical attention is so much better nowadays - if a horse has a snivel a vet is called (and good on the owner for doing it). People take care to ensure tack is well fitting. They obsess about what to feed, whether to shoe, whether the horse is out / in for too long - not long enough.

We are a nation of obsessors when it comes to our horses - and I thank God for it.
 
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