Has the discipline of horse management gone out the window in modern times???

patch1234 said:
Just out of interest are people under the impression that horse owners 30 years ago didnt work or didnt have busy scedules??? Ask your mum or dad if it was easier 30 years ago.
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30 years ago the horse leisure industry certainly wasn't what it was today - and what there was of it was probably made up pony club ponies. Pony dragged in from field when needing to be ridden, and chucked out again afterwards.

Livery yards - what were they??
 
patch1234 said:
Around 30/40 years ago horse owners were incredibly more disciplined in their own management of horses. I dont mean farm horses or similar but riding horses.

For example my day was as follows:

6.00 - arrive at yard check all horses are well.

6.15 - 6.30am feed all horses and put up small net.

7.00 remove feed buckets, change rugs if necessary, skip out.

8.00 lightly groom those to be ridden

8.30 - 10.30 tack up and ride

10.30 full groom including strapping if necessary

12.00 tack cleaning

1.00 2nd feed and small net

Lunch

2.00 remove feed buckets skip out

3.00 ride those not ridden in the morning then groom

5.30 skip out 3rd feed and large hay net, change rugs, set fair

8.30 (if on evening check) check horses fill nets check all is well, skip out if necessary.

We always had to look smart, hair back no jewellery, clean clothes.

Our horses were always groomed and tidy, I hardly ever heard of colic, laminitis or back problems.

If we could turn out we did, more so in summer, but they always came in and were tidied up.

Mud fever was very rarely heard of as we kept the legs clean and dry.

Today I know people who turn up to yard at about 10am, throw them out in all weathers even if its a gale so they dont have to do the stables.

Others I know keep out 24/7 horses are covered in mud fever, rain scald.

I know this is not all horse owners but there is definately a lack of discipline these days. I know people work but there is still no exscuse for not putting the extra time into your horses.
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Fabulous....but I wouldn't be able to fit in a full time job if I did the above....

So. My day

Up at 6.10.

Horses fed and out by 6.30
Stables mucked out, haynets up,trough filled

Back in house for 7.30am

Off to work for 9 am.

Check horses at lunchtime

Finish work 5pm ish

Evenings.....fill water buckets, make up haynets, poo-pick.

Groom, check horses, ride.

Bring in....back home anywhere between 7pm and 10pm depending on time of year.

Additionally...I have 2 dogs, 2 kids and shift-working husband to fit in....

Disciplined enough for you?
 
Fair enough, great routine if your full time job is as groom to those horses but otherwise.. :rolleyes:

I get to the yard at 6.45 and pick hooves, apply hoof dressing, change rug, turn out, muck out, do haynets/water and feeds. Then work from 8 until half 5. Then back to bring in, groom, ride/lunge, cool off, put away for the night and feed.

I hope that is good enough.
 
My friend, whose horses I ride and help care for, has just had some shelters built so that the horses will have a choice of coming in in bad weather. What's the betting that they will actually use them? There are six horses of varying breeds..included an Arab and a TB, who are happily living out. All are now rugged up. They are a happy well adjusted bunch and in good condition apart from Arab baby who needs to gain a bit of weight. From a human perspective it's a royal pain in the bum having to groom them when they get muddy but it's doing them no harm. Two of them are prone to mud fever but they got this summer because of the rain. I can't imagine any one of them being happy stabled. :).
 
patch1234 said:
Around 30/40 years ago horse owners were incredibly more disciplined in their own management of horses. I dont mean farm horses or similar but riding horses.

For example my day was as follows:

6.00 - arrive at yard check all horses are well.

6.15 - 6.30am feed all horses and put up small net.

7.00 remove feed buckets, change rugs if necessary, skip out.

8.00 lightly groom those to be ridden

8.30 - 10.30 tack up and ride

10.30 full groom including strapping if necessary

12.00 tack cleaning

1.00 2nd feed and small net

Lunch

2.00 remove feed buckets skip out

3.00 ride those not ridden in the morning then groom

5.30 skip out 3rd feed and large hay net, change rugs, set fair

8.30 (if on evening check) check horses fill nets check all is well, skip out if necessary.

We always had to look smart, hair back no jewellery, clean clothes.

Our horses were always groomed and tidy, I hardly ever heard of colic, laminitis or back problems.

If we could turn out we did, more so in summer, but they always came in and were tidied up.

Mud fever was very rarely heard of as we kept the legs clean and dry.

Today I know people who turn up to yard at about 10am, throw them out in all weathers even if its a gale so they dont have to do the stables.

Others I know keep out 24/7 horses are covered in mud fever, rain scald.

I know this is not all horse owners but there is definately a lack of discipline these days. I know people work but there is still no exscuse for not putting the extra time into your horses.
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Mine are kept as close to this idea as I can. I work full time, so mine are

5.45 Breakfast, skip out water changed and Haynets up with daughters help.

7.30 Back in the house to get ready for work, and put washing on/away, hoover, quick tidy.

8.15 Leave for work

4.30 Daughter feeds and does haynets/water buckets.

5.00 Home change out to the yard skip out.

6.00 In for T wash up, more washing if needed!

7.00 Back out to yard, exercise/groom

9.00 Final feed skip out, feed the 2 dogs.

9.30 Inside to sit down and chill out:):)
 
The regime op describes was common place years ago and I worked in yards at that time. I don't think the lack of turnout was ever good for the horses, however I think some of the idiots keeping horses these days do far more harm than was ever done 30 odd years ago.
I was taught in those days by an army captain. Everything was immaculate, in fact the saying in the yard was "if it moves, salute it. If it doesn't, paint it".
Much of it was unnecessary I suppose but it instilled a sense of pride and responsibility, sadly lacking in all walks of life these days, not just the horse world.
My old dad used to say " there are horse people, and there are people who keep horses". Something that is blindingly obvious when reading the diverse mix of posters on this forum.
 
Sometimes I pretend I have a Perkins,

I get up at 05:30, check my emails, sort my house out etc go to the stables around 06:45 turn out between 2-5 horses (my own and other peoples-we are all in it together) muck out at least 1 but sometimes 2 (daughter's horse, if loaner is away and daughter not around) or sometimes I chuck my horse in an empty stable with some hay, muck out and then ride with a friend at around 7:45, I get to work around 09:30 as I am clearly a slacker. I then get back up the yard around 18:00 or later and everything is ready for them to come in for the night I am a bit senile and forget my early morning frivolity and I think "ah bless that Perkins" Sometimes, if someone finishes work earlier, they will bring them in for me. I also help a friend who keeps her horses on a farm because I don't like to think of her alone in the dark down there. Her horses live out, though they don't have mud fever, so it doesn't take long to sort them out for the night.

Then I go home, usually around 8pm, put dinner on, shower, eat dinner, clean up, do another hour or two of internet and work emails, get everything ready for the morning, and go to bed.

I wish I had a Mrs Perkins to do all the housework too :D
 
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ribbons said:
The regime op describes was common place years ago and I worked in yards at that time. I don't think the lack of turnout was ever good for the horses, however I think some of the idiots keeping horses these days do far more harm than was ever done 30 odd years ago.
I was taught in those days by an army captain. Everything was immaculate, in fact the saying in the yard was "if it moves, salute it. If it doesn't, paint it".
Much of it was unnecessary I suppose but it instilled a sense of pride and responsibility, sadly lacking in all walks of life these days, not just the horse world.
My old dad used to say " there are horse people, and there are people who keep horses". Something that is blindingly obvious when reading the diverse mix of posters on this forum.
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I wish there were more people like old dad still in this world:)
 
littlelegs said:
I think what we're forgetting is 30/40yrs ago the average woman didn't have a good career with early starts & late finishes, or young kids & a ft job. And I very much doubt their were single parents with kids & ft jobs. People with disabilities or long term illness wouldn't have had help making jobs accessible, therefore wouldn't have had the income to make it necessary to look after a horse at the end of a tiring day. Disposable income has increased, so the average young working couple can afford a horse. There's been loads of development, meaning people travel further to the yard than 30/40 yrs ago. So its social dynamics that have changed, with the side effect of changing horse management.
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I think what OP is forgetting is that she worked as a groom when she stuck to that routine. There were no where near as many horse-owners 30/40 yrs ago. The advent of better career choices for women and the Equalities Act has brought the financial ability to own a horse to the masses but this means that the vast majority of horse-owners keep their single horse at some sort of livery and have to fit their routine around their working lives.
 
Trouble is everyone wants everything. Demanding careers, horses, children. It's not possible to do it all properly so everything is compromised. Its an excuse not a reason.
 
ribbons said:
Trouble is everyone wants everything. Demanding careers, horses, children. It's not possible to do it all properly so everything is compromised. Its an excuse not a reason.
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My horses come first, they are definitely not compromised, but as for the child!! Thats another matter:D
 
I'm going to stick up for the OP here.

Rather than there being a lack of management regarding the routine the OP spoke off, I definitely think there is a lack of discipline to horses management in terms of their care these days.

Grooming is not only to make your horse look nice and cared for. It's an opportunity to bond with your horse, look for cuts, feel for bruises, increase circulation, promote healthy skin, relax tired muscles etc etc. I fully groom my horse every day without fail and I even strap him. The result, a lovely shiny soft coated horse.

The type of routine the OP mentions is the ideal stable routine if you don't have other things to do. How ever, there are important areas within that routine that should be done everyday.

It is definitely a good thing the horse industry has changed and has become open to those who wouldn't have been able to have a horse in days gone by. But a consequence of this is not everyone knows horse management and basic care. In the old days it would have been the grooms that would have looked after the horses so the horses would have been looked after by knowledgable people.
 
Far fewer horses suffer from vices these days. When I was a child I remember many many horses weaved, windsucked and cribbed. Don't know when I last saw one in recent years.

I don't see the need for the snobbery in this thread. I had a "proper" horsey upbringing with pony club education. A lot of it is good, a lot of it is not necessary for the health of the horse.

At one pony club camp none of us achieved 10/10 for beds for the entire week except one boy, and we couldn't see what we were doing differently to him (nor could he). It turned out he was putting the handle of the water bucket on the corner side rather than the horse side (no doubt because he was left handed and we were all right handed, it was just natural). It does mean I always put the handle of the water bucket on the corner side now but really, is it necessary, does it make much difference, probably not!

Mine are out 24/7 and I no doubt do things "correctly" other than that, according to the op's take on correct, because I am a stickler for doing things the old fashioned correct way. However they are out 24/7 because they are quite happy that way and no, I don't want to be mucking out stables if I don't need to. Modern rugs make it easy to keep a hard working horse in good condition out side.

Incidentally my new horse came from a stabled situation WITH mud fever and I have got rid of it no problem in my situation.

And op, there is no problem provoking discussion, but I think you want to provoke argument due to the tone of your opening post. You weren't asking a question you were stating that horse care has gone down the swanney.
 
ribbons said:
Trouble is everyone wants everything. Demanding careers, horses, children. It's not possible to do it all properly so everything is compromised. Its an excuse not a reason.
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Define "properly".
I've got 3 living happy as pigs in ***** in a well sheltered field with a shelter and barn. I don't over-groom them because they live out, but horses don't care about a bit of mud. We have no mud fever, rainscald or other nasties. Their hooves are treated like precious objects. They get various vets, physios etc in when needed. I think they are very well cared for. I can understand why some people choose to keep horses stabled for the majority of the time (convenience, worried about their fields, liking their horses to keep looking nice) but I don't think that's the best or healthiest option for the horses themselves.
What would a horse choose I wonder? A shiny coat and a life stabled, or a bit of mud and interaction with other equines?
 
Speak for yourself ribbons. You might not be the type who can have it all & do it properly, but don't assume because you can't/couldn't manage nobody can.
 
Re. grooming /strapping though...my back person recently commented that people no longer grooming or strapping their horses is a factor in back muscles not being as strong as they used to be, with resulting injuries/strains. It is a form of massage after all.
I thought back to what I used to do - and I have begun strapping my own again. I used to do 10 mins daily without ever thinking about it!
I also think horses were kept fit for their job mainly through hacking out. There was very little schoolwork, even in professional yards and I think horses were happier in themselves with this.
I also wonder if in pre insurance and routine antibiotic days it was crucial to pick up on small injuries and sources of infection quickly, and thorough grooming consequently was much more important.
 
patch1234 said:
Around 30/40 years ago horse owners were incredibly more disciplined in their own management of horses. I dont mean farm horses or similar but riding horses.

For example my day was as follows:

6.00 - arrive at yard check all horses are well.

6.15 - 6.30am feed all horses and put up small net.

7.00 remove feed buckets, change rugs if necessary, skip out.

8.00 lightly groom those to be ridden

8.30 - 10.30 tack up and ride

10.30 full groom including strapping if necessary

12.00 tack cleaning

1.00 2nd feed and small net

Lunch

2.00 remove feed buckets skip out

3.00 ride those not ridden in the morning then groom

5.30 skip out 3rd feed and large hay net, change rugs, set fair

8.30 (if on evening check) check horses fill nets check all is well, skip out if necessary.

We always had to look smart, hair back no jewellery, clean clothes.

Our horses were always groomed and tidy, I hardly ever heard of colic, laminitis or back problems.

If we could turn out we did, more so in summer, but they always came in and were tidied up.

Mud fever was very rarely heard of as we kept the legs clean and dry.

Today I know people who turn up to yard at about 10am, throw them out in all weathers even if its a gale so they dont have to do the stables.

Others I know keep out 24/7 horses are covered in mud fever, rain scald.

I know this is not all horse owners but there is definately a lack of discipline these days. I know people work but there is still no exscuse for not putting the extra time into your horses.
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mmmm funny reading your post I was having a sense of 'deja vu', read / seen somewhere else - you may not be a clip clopping bearded little being who uses bridges for cover but seriously what is the point ?

for everyone else who has made me laugh on this thread - ginger beers and macroons all around
 
I have 2 questions that have arisen from reading this troll thread:

1. How does a person do "strapping" on their horse? It sounds like it might be worth doing

2. I liked the sound of the person's dad who said there was a difference between a horse person and a person who kept horses, got me thinking, what is the difference?

Is someone who competes at a high level and trains many horses successfully but keeps their horse on full livery, or has staff to do the chores, a horse person? I don't know, I guess they could be.
I don't know if I am, I try my best, but sometimes my job and other commitments eat into my horsey time, but I feel like a horse person, I certainly smell like a horse person too :)
 
Not grooming thoroughly (as you can't with horses living out unrugged) means that horses don't get checked over properly and are somehow neglected. It's still possible to check horses over thoroughly in their field. As for the massaging benefits - mine get actual massages, lucky things.
Mud fever - seen plenty of this on horses that come in. I'm sure that leg washing doesn't help.
While I think there should be a certain "discipline" to keeping horses in that they should be looked after properly, visited and checked etc. How disciplined do we need to be? In the routine op describes it sounds so regimented. I thought horse ownership was supposed to be fun. :-)
 
I definitely agree with the grass thing as one poster put it, grass has changed dramatically. Most grass is for super growing fast which is not for horses. Very few would have issues on native grasses. And you can add big feed to that as well. Thousands of sugary mixes to choose from nowadays and you're made to feel guilty if you don't feed fancy bags full of crap. And most horses really don't need all the hard feed we're convinced they need. If you saw the small portions I fed big horses you'd laugh. They do basic work daily and have a mix of hay and haylage. They don't need much until competing. So yeah, under worked, and over fed is an issue.

And when you talk about issues someone will always say, well that's a human term. Well of course it is as I'm describing to another human. Look all horses that have "tantrums" or are unruly or difficult or whatever you want to call it are not suffering. They just know what they can get away with. Yes, some are in pain but not the majority. But it's an excuse. When I got my mare back from the trainer she was a bit fried from jumping and rider losing the plot with her a couple of times. Running her into walls, smacked her in the head, and yes he was fired. So when I started getting on her I felt incredibly guilty. I was absolutely not going to confuse her or upset her. Well that transformed into me letting her get away with things that made riding her incredibly difficult. Like, oh princess doesn't like me leg so I won't use any. So then I found that when she had her confidence back she was giving me the big middle finger. Then I had to correct my faulty riding and silliness. I just had to say this is the way it's gonna be and you do have to listen. Once that was sorted, we both grew up. Oh and yup I did the obligatory vet checks, 2 in fact because I was sure it wasn't my ineffectiveness! And now and again she still tries it on. That's her but once she's sure I'm not letting her away with it, she's fine. So yup, I'll admit I failed. And was looking for zebras when I heard hoofbeats if you know what I mean.

Now all the language I just used is probably totally not politically horsie correct but that's how I can describe it. She's a funny ole thing but she keeps me honest. Where as my other horses I don't have to try very hard and they make me look good.

Terri
 
As far as morning routine goes. All get a little turnout in the arena for a buck and a roll while we do chores. Then the ridden ones get brought in for riding and then go back out to the field. Gets them loose. I use a rubber glove in circles all over muscles before a hearty brush and then tack up. Lots of walking before work and then either sponge, bath, or good rub after riding. Cooled out, rugs on and out. At night a good hearty curry and brushing for muscles. That's how the horses at the track were done and how I do it as well. I do stretches with them too.

Terri
 
Well, I'm sorry OP but none of this adds up for me. If this is the regime you learnt 30/40 years ago, then you must be in your 50's. But in your other posts, you say you own 5 horses, 3 of which you compete and the horse which your dressage rider said was soooooo talented it would go round Badminton is kept on your own yard which is very relaxed. And you have found the time to have a career in the city despite working in racing/competition yards. Perhaps you have found time for all this in which case I apologise but I think I hear the tip tap of cloven hooves.
 
Millikins said:
Well, I'm sorry OP but none of this adds up for me. If this is the regime you learnt 30/40 years ago, then you must be in your 50's. But in your other posts, you say you own 5 horses, 3 of which you compete and the horse which your dressage rider said was soooooo talented it would go round Badminton is kept on your own yard which is very relaxed. And you have found the time to have a career in the city despite working in racing/competition yards. Perhaps you have found time for all this in which case I apologise but I think I hear the tip tap of cloven hooves.
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Psssttt, you can be in your 50's and compete, have 5 horses, and your own yard.....
 
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