Has the discipline of horse management gone out the window in modern times???

PlanetHacking said:
I'm with Cptrayes on this except I'd go a bit further in that I didn't enjoy the Perkins sidetracking. Suspected troll? Ignore it, surely? This schoolgirl common room savagery is deeply unedifying. We all enjoy banter and we all hope to receive sensible advice; if you think someone's taking the p** do the grown-up thing and ignore them. Alternatively, take them at face value and actually offer some help.
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But in this case no help was asked for, the subject was not serious and the banter was funny imo and not personal or savage.
 
sussexbythesea said:
But in this case no help was asked for, the subject was not serious and the banter was funny imo and not personal or savage.
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Apologies; I'm talking in the wider context of this poster, not just this post. The 4-year-old at the trainer's yard etc. I think the "banter" followed on from the existing belief she was a troll. In that context it takes on an unkind sheen, in my book.
 
:( sorry to hear all this japery has led to GW being banned, I enjoyed her posts.

Can I ask is banned a ban for life or a trip to the sin bin?
 
If op had posted a thread to discuss the difference in stable management over the years, or the merits of 24/7 turnout versus stabling, I would have responded in kind, & had an adult discussion. However I found the sweeping statements amusing, & ridiculous, so I responded in kind. Tbh, after my initial sarcastic post, followed by my first Jill post, which were responses to op, later posts from me were just be because I found it amusing, not aimed at op at all. Same thing happens on lots of threads. Nothing personal, I'm a jolly good sport!
 
littlelegs said:
If op had posted a thread to discuss the difference in stable management over the years, or the merits of 24/7 turnout versus stabling, I would have responded in kind, & had an adult discussion. However I found the sweeping statements amusing, & ridiculous, so I responded in kind. Tbh, after my initial sarcastic post, followed by my first Jill post, which were responses to op, later posts from me were just be because I found it amusing, not aimed at op at all. Same thing happens on lots of threads. Nothing personal, I'm a jolly good sport!
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Agree with you littlelegs. The tone of the original post just begged to have the pee taken out of it. I spat my tea out when I read the first post about Perkins. Doesn't make her a troll, but the lighthearted ribbing was fairly well deserved.

Now, where did I put my anglegrinder, one of my horses needs its feet trimming.
 
littlelegs said:
If op had posted a thread to discuss the difference in stable management over the years, or the merits of 24/7 turnout versus stabling, I would have responded in kind, & had an adult discussion. However I found the sweeping statements amusing, & ridiculous, so I responded in kind. Tbh, after my initial sarcastic post, followed by my first Jill post, which were responses to op, later posts from me were just be because I found it amusing, not aimed at op at all. Same thing happens on lots of threads. Nothing personal, I'm a jolly good sport!
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Very true - no one can post a thread on a public forum and be surprised if others' contributions change the shape or intent. Otherwise why invite others to comment on it?

The thread started with a good question and some nostalgia and others added to it - and may I say - with entertaining and humourous posts :D
 
cptrayes said:
Agree with you littlelegs. The tone of the original post just begged to have the pee taken out of it. I spat my tea out when I read the first post about Perkins. Doesn't make her a troll, but the lighthearted ribbing was fairly well deserved.

Now, where did I put my anglegrinder, one of my horses needs its feet trimming.
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Good, because it was intended to be funny not nasty. I have never been intentionally nasty to anyone in my life and I won't start now.

Nor would I personally start a thread which boiled down to saying modern horse keeping methods were all rubbish and anyone that kept their horse out 24/7 was neglectful...
 
Jest and "light hearted ribbing" is ok and may be acceptable in one context, but in the context of suspicion and giving someone a hard time, they don't look as such!
 
FfionWinnie said:
Good, because it was intended to be funny not nasty. I have never been intentionally nasty to anyone in my life and I won't start now.

Nor would I personally start a thread which boiled down to saying modern horse keeping methods were all rubbish and anyone that kept their horse out 24/7 was neglectful...
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Where in this thread have i ever said that modern methods are rubbish and when have I ever said that people keeping horses out 24/7 are neglectful? You have misread the start of the thread.
 
Think of it more as parallel threads. There was the OP about the good ole days and the Perkins thread which I found very amusing and i did contribute to just as I also contributed to the more serious question posed about horse husbandry. No offence to the OP was intended and she could have joined in and diffused the situation instead of getting annoyed about it.
 
Lol @ anglegrinder Cptrayes. I also find myself sniggering whenever pea gravel is mentioned, however relevant. It makes me think of 'berefoot farriers' stood in cat litter trays.
 
I know this is not all horse owners but there is definately a lack of discipline these days. I know people work but there is still no exscuse for not putting the extra time into your horses.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like criticism to me :)
 
'throw them out in all weathers so they don't have to do the stable'
'keep out 24/7 the horses covered in rainscald & mudfever'.
That's not criticism?
 
Millikins said:
If a troll is someone who posts something deliberately provocative, then that is what patch has done. The military regime appears to be her ideal yet previously she has stated that her horse is turned out from 8a.m-5p.m. And if I can only answer posts I agree with, then this forum won't offer much in the way of discussion will it?
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NO MILLIKINS she h as not stated that this is HER regime but one that many of us who have worked in big yards will totally understand as we have had to work like this. I could write out the timetable from the first yard I ever worked on in the early 70's. It's what we did.

So no she is not a troll just someone who has asked if any of us still work from a system like this. I personally think many yards still do as if you have no routine you really can't get work done properly. If you have your own horses and also work of course you won't have a routine like this unless you employ grooms to do the jubs.

This has been a great thread and some of us have taken the mick but otherwise its been an interesting thread
 
patch1234 said:
Around 30/40 years ago horse owners were incredibly more disciplined in their own management of horses. I dont mean farm horses or similar but riding horses.

Our horses were always groomed and tidy, I hardly ever heard of colic, laminitis or back problems.

If we could turn out we did, more so in summer, but they always came in and were tidied up.

Mud fever was very rarely heard of as we kept the legs clean and dry.

Today I know people who turn up to yard at about 10am, throw them out in all weathers even if its a gale so they dont have to do the stables.

Others I know keep out 24/7 horses are covered in mud fever, rain scald.

I know this is not all horse owners but there is definately a lack of discipline these days. I know people work but there is still no exscuse for not putting the extra time into your horses.
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patch1234 said:
I do not understand why people think its ok to just clean a portion of your horse, if its stood there and youve got your kit out clean the whole body for goodness sake its just laziness not to.
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patch1234 said:
Where in this thread have i ever said that modern methods are rubbish and when have I ever said that people keeping horses out 24/7 are neglectful? You have misread the start of the thread.
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I didn't say you said it, I said your comments boiled down to that.
 
No they didn't:confused: You are extrapolating and assuming she is talking in complete absolutes all the time in order to confirm your assertions.

ETA: on reread - there are some absoutes there - but not as many as you attribute
 
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patch1234 said:
Around 30/40 years ago horse owners were incredibly more disciplined in their own management of horses.
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30/40 years ago some horse owners were more disciplined in their horse management and some were not. Grooms have always been disciplined for the most part. It was harder owning horses back then as we didn't have modern conveniences like we do today so yes we may have had to work harder but I don't think everyone was more disciplined per se. What I have noticed though is the majority of horse owners in my area back then seemed quite a bit more knowledgeable than many horse owners of today. Although thinking about it perhaps not, maybe it was just the horse folks I went around with, there wasn't any internet back then.
 
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I didn't say that either, Littlelegs:confused: I said that was the spirit in which I thought the original post was proposed by the OP. The subject matter wasn't interesting to me at all.
 
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As with most things it's not what is said, it's how it's said.

Look at the pony club OCD thread where everyone is having a nice time remembering the rules we learned in pony club and how we can't let go of the discipline we learned from pony club.

If the op had said it differently it would no doubt have been taken differently, but I still think it was a post designed to provoke argument not discussion.

For instance

Title: The good old days!

First post:

Does anyone think modern horse keeping should take some lessons from the old days?

I remember when I used to do x,y and z and we never heard of a, b, and c problems!

Second post:

Yes op I think in someways that's true, blah blah blah but remember how many horses had saddle sores, fistulous withers and other issues etc etc.

Op posts again:

Yes I suppose you could be right about some of those things but I hate seeing horses out 24/7 with mud fever and rain scald and owners not turning up until 10am etc etc

Then that trouble maker Ffionwinnie chimes in

Op I quite agree with a lot of what you have said, there is a lack of basic knowlege these days. On the other hand it's a completely different life style these days and on balance I think horses are on average better off since their owners are always getting saddle fitters, EDTs, physios and the like out to them.

There's good and bad in all ages I am sure.

(presses send and hope I don't look madder than usual)
 
Haven't read all replies as I've got this thread late on and there are a lot of replies.

Our horses live out 24/7 and if I'm honest, have minimal attention and very minimal grooming. At this time of year I'm quite happy to ride with them muddy and dirty, provided that they are clean where it counts (under saddle, hooves picked out).

I think it's up to the owner to manage their horses however they like, provided that the horses are happy and healthy. We've always kept ours this way and we've never had any with mud fever or rain scald. They are also relatively easy to handle.

It's great to have a routine like the OP if that's what works for you and your horses and situation, but I know for a fact that my horses like to be out in all weathers and would hate to be stabled at all. They are happy (well, I haven't asked them lately but they seem to be!) and in good condition and that's what matters to me. :)
 
OP, I guess you must be around 50-60? I am at the lower end of this age range and to be fair I helped out at a riding school when I was about 10/11 for a couple of years and we had this routine pretty much and I remember it well. I was taught to strap and groom properly etc.

However, to say that the discipline has gone out of hore care nowadays is a little bit harsh, dont you think. For starters, most of us on here have to earn a living, and really what is wrong with leaving a bit of mud on bits of your horse that dont get covered in tack? I work 60 hours a week, have a business to run, a home, family and an OH. My horses are out as much as possible because they are happier that way. Yes, I do have stables for them and yes we do rug up. They have their tack, backs and teeth checked and done each year, plus vaccinations. I call the vet at the merest hint of a sniffle in them, and they are very, very much loved. If you were to say to my face that my standards of horse care were sloppy then I would have to disagree and horsewhip you soundly.

To say horse management standard have gone down is a little bit unfair - peoples lives have moved on since 1970/1980, havent they? Nostalgia is a lovely thing and and I do look back fondly at leaving my favourite riding school pony clean in a felt stable rug and roller with a huge bed of hay and going home for tea (not piss taking and no, mater and pater did not employ Perkins). Now I leave my muddy horse rugged up in his best Weatherbeeta in a stable with rubber matter and a bale of Auboise, and then go home and make the bloody tea!
 
Ok achinghips, I'll rephrase. If you think the thread was posted in the spirit of reasonable discussion, rather than in a sweeping, my mind is already made up, criticizing way, as I saw it, we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Dear Perkins - if only when you were active, we could have let you have all those labour saving devices we have now? Instead you had to struggle with the old Jute Rugs, NZ rugs that were a bit of old canvas, and weighed a ton when they got wet.....clipper that you had to wind up by hand as you were using them (with your teeth) and don't forget all those lovely hours you spent grinding chaff and rolling oats by hand.......
Of course in your spare time you were brushing the underside of all those lovely linen lined saddles - using that wonderful glycerin saddle soap, that you would spit on to get a lather - and of course concocting some wonderful remedies for all equine ills, using Epsom Salts and Stockholm tar.
Those really were the days........
Oh don't forget those woolen day rugs you had to beat the hairs out on a weekly basis, and all that plaiting of straw for wisps to STRAP (see PC manual 4th edition 1968 - P22)
Blimey - how would we cope with all that now? Sadly Perkins and his ilk (though my fantasy groom was Dick - remember him from Flambards??) did quite wisely join a Trade Union, and refused to accept a shilling a week and as many eating apples as he could carry home from the Orchard - and we had to start doing it all ourselves - I don't think we do a bad job, mostly, considering - and complete feeds, nice new fabrics for rugs, better field management etc. etc. mean that we get the Perkin's gloss, often via buying in an alternative.
Though, if I added up all the extras I spend on my darlings - and if Perkins could nail on shoes too - then it might be cheaper in the long run to have him back.......
 
Silvermiyazawa said:
Wasn't Jill's mother a single parent and an author? I seem to remember they could afford buns for tea if she had sold a book.
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She was - her books were about 'soppy girls called Angelina....'
Actually most of those books written in the mid to late 1960's were about horse keeping on a shoe string...not too many grooms appeared in the Pullein Thompson books - and when Jill had Plum (the perfect pony) she was very scathing of the lack of affection the pony got from the groom et al.
 
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