Has the horse world just gone a bit crazy?

[ridefast]

I doubt it's any worse than it used to be, it's just 50/60/100 years ago there were no internet forums to discuss things on. I think if anything people are a lot more open to investigating problems these days. When horses were working animals they did their job, and if not they got the bullet. There was no such thing as equine physios, chiros, whisperers, communicators, saddle fitters, etc. And as far as the riders being less brave these days, well as long as the horse is looked over what on earth does it matter how high they jump?

 

[Booboos]

The very nature of human compassion means that a lot of more experienced people will not stand by with very novice owners who have no idea on the very basic things such a feeding, rugging, turn out and stable management - at the very best it is dangerous for the horse if human's just turn a blind eye to it. I don't think it is idealising the past at all, deciding to buy a horse is a decision which seems to be taken very lightly these days by people who just don't have the experience to keep one.

The 'idealising the past' thing referred to the notion that things used to be better than they are now, i.e. more knowledge, more compassion, more experience, more whatever you like. Trolloppe felt that things had gone downhill at his time and he was writing in the 19th century. If he was right and things have continued in a downward trend since then, by now we should be struggling to get on a horse! Mind you Xenophon was also pessimistic about the state of affairs with new owners who didn't seem to know half the things his more experienced lot knew, so maybe things have been going downhill since the 4th century BC and we should be grateful that we can still tell a horse from a cow!

 

[Molasses]

This thread or similar seems to crop up every month. Some pretentious horsey people mock what they see as less than capable horsey people.
To what end? To point out that you’re better than your neighbour? What does that prove?

How lovely for those of us who grew up riding in a carefree better world. How lucky we were. But should we say “oooh no sorry the horse world is a closed shop and unless you can remember hacking your pony in a headcollar across paddocks of wildflowers then you shouldn’t be allowed in.” and people wonder why they think the horse world is snobby!

Ironically I’ll bet the next thread is something like ‘drivers won’t slow down because they think riders are posh”

 

[Snowy Celandine]

Booboo's answer is perfect as far as I am concerned Would we all want to go back to the days when we galloped merrily along the hard shoulder of the M1 on our out- of- control ponies??? Even if we do, I hardly think it would be responsible to ourselves, our horses or motorists. It is so easy to put on our rose-tinted specs and eulogise the past. I for one don't want to go back to heavy New Zealand rugs that never actually dried and were so expensive that you could only afford the one, rugs that had to held in place with rollers etc. We enjoy many advances in technology these days, most of which benefit us and our horses.

Maybe a better way of looking at your question OP is to ask yourself what makes you, and the posters who agree with you that standards of horse care and horsemanship have severely declined in recent years, so much better able to ride and look after your horses than those whom you castigate? If you know the answer to this you are at least halfway there in your quest to understand why others fall so short of your own competence

 

[catkin]

The horse world is reflecting the mores of society as a whole sadly.

Whether we acknowledge it or not we are affected by the instant-ness of the internet - we no longer hear just of the odd 'crazy' that lives round the corner. Also are HHO and Facebook and the like a realistic sample? or are the extremes inclined to be exaggerated. I'm sure there are still quite a few 'non-crazies' quietly getting along with their little horsey lives, just not posting about it.......

One thing that does concern me is the hard-sell marketing of equipment/feed - all those clever emotional words like 'choice', 'better', fix-the-problem', that in reality do nothing of the sort. Sadly we can all be sucked in even when we know in our heart-of-hearts that things are not always as they seem. Then we get frustrated, upset and angry.......and we all know the effects of that kind of stress has on horses - are we any different?

 

[Clodagh]

I think the main problem is everyone can now have a horse, and DIY (or DIIYHT - do it if you have time) livery is a nice cheap way to keep them. With our instant gratification society we can now buy a horse, or a dog, or a hamster, and keep it with blind ignorance abbout what its needs are, because we are worth it.

My parents had hunters at home but I didn't get a pony until I was 9, until then I spent my weekends at the local riding school mucking out about 10 stables for a 10 minute sit on a badly behaved pony, but I didn't mind. That is now child exploitation.

 

[WelshD]

The real only craziness I see personally is that with the price of livery less than the average riding lesson more people are buying horses as an alternative to lessons - 'why should I pay £40 once a week to have someone boss me about when I can keep a horse for that amount and ride as much as I like with no one interfering' They forget the extra costs of having a horse and so many dont carry on with the lessons

How many times do we see a horse that is at shows every weekend and has all the gear but the owner 'cant afford' the vet

Beyond that I dont really think there is a problem, most mollycoddled horses do not suffer from it despite what others would have us think.

 

[JoannaC]

I'm not idealising the past just saying that we were lucky growing up when we did with regard to being able to hack out for miles from a young age and have strict supervision from very knowledgeable people which most people don't have the benefit of nowadays. Unless you have your own land you do have to abide by the livery you are on which tends to mean not enough turnout etc and therefore more difficulties than you would have with a horse in regular work and living out. Most of us have other commitments and horses don't get the work they need which can lead to problems and society has changed in that people don't like being told what to do. I admire anyone coming into the horseworld now as it is much harder in a lot of ways although it might seen easier with advances of veterinary care and rugs etc.

 

[SadKen]

Good viewpoints in this thread, I found myself agreeing with a lot of them!

Things do seem to swing wildly between full supplements and 15 rugs to untreated lami and mud fever. There did seem to be less of these extremes when I was young; most horses were kept to a decent standard, but still like livestock. There also seemed to be less extreme types of horse; these days it seems to be top level crackers comp horses (warmbloods, TBs etc) or not so well bred throwaway nags. Finding something in the middle is very difficult; to my mind, these horses are what we need to breed, if anything.

In the absence of what they want (a nice sensible all rounder) most folks will probably go more for the slightly crackers but capable horse - partly because they will worry what 'people will think' - i.e. 'you can't do prelim dressage on that conformationally poor horse even though he's a doll to handle'; 'you won't win anything jumping that cob'. I think this stems from the fact that riding is (and probably always has been) bound up with money and status, and what people will think of you if you win/don't win/are well known in pony club etc, for networking purposes.

Then, due to longer working hours/not having own land etc, said crackers horse won't get the exercise he needs and owner will quickly have an issue.

Seems to me what we really need is to be less judgemental all round. I for one would prefer to admire someone for their riding, not their horse. I'd rather see a good rider in sympathy with a 'bad' horse than a rider struggling to manage too much horse for the sake of what other people will think of them.

And defo no return to NZ rugs! Shudder!

 

[Caol Ila]

Nostalgia ain't what it used to be......

 

[wench]

As I said on a post in CR the other day "every thing was obviously better in the olden days"

 

[fatpiggy]

Horse owners today wont admit they are wrong its always the horses fault.The vets take the mick and get the horses in the practice.The last thing the vet wants to do is pts.Its less money
for them always the owners modern way.It takes a big person to admit they dont know.But i do think vets are getting lazy like everyone else.

Not all vets are like that! I was sending a cheque for around £600 EVERY month to my vet and had been doing so for more than 10 years but when I said that keeping my elderly, arthritic, Cushings horse going through another winter wasn't in her best interests, they made no attempt to talk me out of it, even though they knew how much I would sacrifice for her. Likewise my cat's vet who could have charged me a bomb to try to find out why she was suddenly very unsteady on her feet, and suggested that just treating the symptoms with a daily tablet was a better option for an elderly animal. When her time also came in July, they listened to what I had to say and agreed that she should be PTS without even examining her.

 

[AmyMay]

Not all vets are like that!

I agree. That's certainly not my experience of vets either.

 

[ester]

but we already know that nobody in lizbet's world is good enough apart from her, vets are definitely not exempt!

 

[hnmisty]

The vets take the mick and get the horses in the practice.The last thing the vet wants to do is pts.Its less money

Really?

Interesting then that the two equine vets who came out to my ponies when they were reaching the end both told us the only real option was to PTS, which my dad, who is a vet, then did. In fact, the vet who came out to my 35 y/o when she had colic from a blockage in her intestines somewhere (had obviously been silently been growing for years) asked my mum whether I would be able to make the right decision for her. My mum told him not to worry. There was no decision to make, I couldn't have done anything but PTS.

In my experience, it's owners who won't accept that PTS is the best option and ignore advice.

 

[Mithras]

I think if you look around you, you will see plenty of people who don't look after themselves, or their dogs. So its not surprising if low standards affect the horse world too. Perhaps we just didn't hear about it so much in the past, due now to the internet.

I agree though that there seem to be an awful lot of posts about pts healthy horses on here. I find it quite disturbing the number of posters who jump in them and congratulate the owner for even considering pts, and equally jump on anyone who questions it. I tend to think Munchausens by a proxy proxy...

 

[Arizahn]

Well I know of two wonderful vets, who treat according to the animal's actual needs, and if that means turn pony away for a bit, or feed dog raw food instead of dried, that is what they prescribe! And there are loads of epic riders here, the sort who have to be dragged away to be treated as they are too busy working through whatever spooked the horse to notice their own injuries, etc. None of them judge those of us whose nerves are wrecked from past falls, and novice owners are supported - we all started somewhere!

On my current yard, anyone not looking after their horse properly is told politely but firmly by the YO how to do it properly. We have several novice owners and they are utterly dedicated to their horses. Just as the experienced owners are. I have been on yards where this does not seem to be the case, and have seen some awful messes because of it, but that was about twenty years ago tbh, so not sure what that suggests!

I will admit to buying supplements. And liking bling/matchy matchy. And to secretly enjoying rug shopping even though pony rarely wears them. But I sometimes miss the days of beet that had to be soaked all day...no, on second thoughts not really. Well, maybe a little. Until I have to rush to get everything ready in time to get the bus home to walk the dogs before dark!

I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same. There will sadly always be those who want animals but are unwilling to put the work in. It isn't to do with background or money, but attitude.

 

[Feival]

Well i think its the owners vets give horses bullet as owners ask them to because they cant cope
and blame the horse.The jumps are smaller as people cant ride.The riders are crap as they wont work they have no guts like they used to. Every one you see on a yard now
is stood talking.well b******g.It is just not like it used to be.They dont
know what real riding and horsemanship is.So no its not just you But yes vets are probley
going same way hard work dealing with all these pretend horseowners
lets face it they are all vets farriers themselves the modern owner now

And you know his how? or are you just talking about yourself here?

 

[benji123]

I totally agree with the nostalgia argument, I'm sure people have been complaining about this since humans first began riding.

BUT I do agree that riding schools don't provide the learning opportunities they used to. As a child of about 7 in the 90s a little gang of us the local RS were given several shetlands to look after by ourselves - we got up to all sorts and there were some pretty bad scrapes! But we learnt so much from the responsibility.

As an adult looking to get back into horses after a long injury, I can't get near a RS horse without paying £30 for a 'stable management lesson'. Such is the sad result of rising costs, particularly insurance, and health and safety culture ruining our riding schools

 

[kobi]

Most people would agree that 20 or 30 years ago kids had more freedom. None of my friends kids cycle off in the morning at the weekend and turn up again at tea time as the norm. The parents understandably worry about traffic and the things they read about in the news. I do wonder how the younger generation will learn skills like independence, bravery, getting yourself out of trouble and common sense leading such controlled, structured, safety focussed lives and how this will reflect on society in the future.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Very good point Kobi.

 

[amandap]

Some horses these days are treated like a cross between a Barbie doll and a drama queen.

I must admit to getting this impression at times reading on forums.

 

[Battytwoll]

This dilemma is not exclusive to the horsey world - I am a nurse but because I studied a degree, "old school" nurses don't believe that I could possibly be a competent nurse because I didn't have to scrub out bed pans. I started riding in 1977, stopped in 2004 and have taken it up again this year. In tHose 9 years of not riding, things certainly seemed to have changed but I do think a lot of it has to do with the access we have to a mine of information. I see both points of view; despite having a long relationship with horses initially, it was a closed and very exclusive shop, I would never have been able to get my own and instead, had to put up with being slave labour at a riding school where I didn't even get the pleasure of even sitting on a pony unless I paid for a lesson. In fact the only thing I sat on was the dung heap in the winter as it was the only place to keep warm because as unpaid "staff" I wasn't allowed to go in the paid staff's caravan for meals etc! Now however, livery is cheap in the grand scheme of things and I (and many others who didn't in the past) do now have the kind of access to horses that I could only once have dreamt about. I am less confident now and I am less likely to ride bareback across fields at a full out gallop but that is more to do with having had children and the mothering instinct to stay alive at all costs so I can provide for them, and a break from riding for 9 years, than my poor riding skills or lack of knowledge! Like I said, I can see both sides, but I do think whenever we look back it is with rose tinted spectacles at a time which in some ways was worse but in other ways was better. It's life Jim, but not as we know it!

 

[Caol Ila]

These sorts of threads always inspire me to post this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo

 

[Cherrydan]

Not naming names, but there are a fair few snotty mares whose attitude needs a dust, its that antique...did daddy buy one a pony too? Horses are only for people whose teeth match their owners...guffaw. Get a grip, if you feel your horse would benefit from a supplement, give em it...? Its your horse, your choice and you dont need Ms brown jodhpurs, smelly wax jacket to judge you. I'm sure we all love our neds and we just want to do the best for them.

 

[Kaida]

I agree and disagree with this. I agree that there is perhaps too much easy access to horses and all the associated paraphernalia and the cost of riding lessons is unfortunately going through the roof - as I understand it, largely due to the insurance premiums they have to pay! I travel 1 hour each way for my riding lessons these days because it is with a trusted school, who has a large variety of horses for all levels of rider, and although I have moved further away I have tried and failed to find a riding school where I feel like I am getting the same gain from a lesson as she's not afraid to tell me off!

They run pony half days at weekends. Same price as a normal lesson, but the children come in, catch the pony, groom the pony, tack up the pony, ride the pony, untack, groom again, rug up, turn out, muck out a stable and have some classroom learning about horses. I think this is the type of lesson more 'new' riders should be taking part in, and agree too many people seem to buy a horse without learning about them first - someone I know recently bought an ex-broodmare to bring into work because "she used to be a safe hack 6 years ago and she was really cheap now that she's 12". Thankfully they are the type of person who are not afraid to ask for help and do actually listen to, and act on, the advice!!!

Smaller jumps and people who can't ride...I think the people at the top of the game are as fearless and good as they have ever been!! But I do see what you mean - things which aren't done now because of health and safety etc, however I think where things have changed they have done just that - changed. Yes, some things are not as death-defying, but they are challenging in other ways now.

 

[lizbet]

Very good point Kobi.

I think if you look around you, you will see plenty of people who don't look after themselves, or their dogs. So its not surprising if low standards affect the horse world too. Perhaps we just didn't hear about it so much in the past, due now to the internet.

I agree though that there seem to be an awful lot of posts about pts healthy horses on here. I find it quite disturbing the number of posters who jump in them and congratulate the owner for even considering pts,


and equally jump on anyone who questions it. I tend to think Munchausens by a proxy proxy...

Well said

 

[Goldenstar]

But are that many healthy horses actually PTS or many horse with undiagnosed problems PTS because that's what I feel generally happens .
I have PTS three horses who could have been said to healthy in that no reason had been found for their issues but I could bet you there was a reason for the behaviour it was just that I baled on the finding because it was IMO not safe to continue.
One homebred 3 yo ... Now I bet it was one of those foals that's born with gastric issues but that was then and you did not gastro guard , scoping etc then.
Another homebred came home from a pro yard with serious issues a fortune and I mean a fortune was spent in the end I was miserable she was miserable we were getting nowhere so I ended it.
And last weeks debacle he's the one I am most prepared to believe was a straight behaviour issue I had Cushing tests etc done recently as I felt he was less 'stable than he had been and I kept getting a bad vibe from him I was right trouble was brewing
And you canot employ staff and have a horse like that around in my view that would not be moral .
No one can forsee the future if bad things happen in your life I understand totally why someone would say PTS an elderly but healthly horse if they could no longer keep it .
Or would PTS a horse like CF like I did last week .
Perhaps in not an epidemic of PTS etc we have but an epidemic of people talking about on forums etc.

 

[Anglebracket]

There is a 19th century Anthony Trolloppe novel where he goes on about the same sort of rant, e.g. where have all the real horsemen gone, it's all new city people riding now who don't know one end of the horse from another, all the horses are injured due to lack of horsemanship, riders are incompetent and can't hunt safely, etc.

It says more about the nature of human beings and the ease with which we forget and idealise the past, than anything about our decreased competency with horses.

I agree with this.
There is a well known quote about young people not being as respectful to their elders as they used to be (I think it is dated 200ac but don't remember exactly).

I can't actually think that I know any of these sort of people!

Me neither.

I don't think livery is cheap either. Perhaps I should relocate.

 

[ridefast]

Perhaps in not an epidemic of PTS etc we have but an epidemic of people talking about on forums etc.

Exactly, I doubt it's got worse, it's just people are talking about it more