Hating owning a livery yard

[jay2bee]

I’ll probably get recognised from this but I'm beyond caring at this point. This post will definitely turn into “A Letter to my Liveries” so bear with me.

I opened a DIY yard in April. 20 stables all full, 15 owners in total.
3 months down the line and it’s an absolute ballache.


One livery has been late with payments two of the three months and I’ve had to chase. I’ve told her if she doesn’t set up a standing order she is off the yard. Just taking the piss and trying to catch me out and get out of paying.


I bought all brand new yard tools when I opened the yard. Already I have two broken wheelbarrows (the expensive, big ones) and three broken broom handles. How? I’ve had tools that have lasted me decades - are they using them to pole dance on?


Every morning I go out to mess. When I say “tidy up after yourself” I don’t just mean the square footage directly in front of your stable door. Tidy up after you pull out hay and straw from the barn. Sweep up when you drop feed all over the tack room. Don’t let your horse trail arena surface or bedding across the whole yard.


It costs money and takes time to empty the muck heap. Fork it up. It takes ten seconds. If you are physically able to muck out a stable then you are physically able to fork up muck a metre , don’t give me shite about your bad back and how it’s too difficult and in the next sentence tell me you go hunting twice a week.


Do you know how expensive that brand new arena is? And the surface? Then why can’t you take thirty seconds after you ride to pick up the poo from it. Instead you leave it, then the next person says “well I’m not picking up someone else’s horse’s muck” and it gets ridden into the surface and that’s that.


I bought all new showjumps and a selection of portable XC jumps for the jump field. I understand that they will get damaged, but just tell me. Don’t leave broken poles in the arena and smashed XC jumps for the next person to find and potentially injure themself or their horse on.


When you’re parking your trailer, take care to make it straight and therefore make more room for everyone else to park theirs. I can’t believe I’m even going to have to tell people this. Some have taken to just haphazardly reversing it to wherever and unhitching and leaving, on a practically 45 degree angle, two metres away from the back wall.


The lack of basic horse management some people have. When I opened a DIY yard I didn’t anticipate the amount of input I need to have in basic stuff. I bite my tongue on stuff I see as preference, rug weights and tack and what have you, but welfare issues I have to speak out. Like when I think a horse has laminitis ( or is going to) and one who was left hobbling with an abscess as the owner wanted to “let it heal itself” instead of actually doing anything.


Oh my god. I’m regretting my life choices big style. I’m already considering renting it out to someone who wants to run it themself.

 

[Fransurrey]

I can't believe you went and bought new tools and poles for a DIY yard, myself. That would be the first thing to change. Everybody at my yard has their own! There are a few communal poles, but they were left by a livery yonks ago.

For the rest, draw up a list of rules along with a 'three strikes and you're out'. Use an online booking tool for the school, then you know who is using it and when and can act accordingly for the poo culprits.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Most of the things that you want done are the norm/normal rules at the yard where I keep my horse and everyone is compliant except for the odd forgotten poo on the driveway, or forgetting to sweep up once in a blue moon. I think that your requests and wants are reasonable.

You can absolutely rent the yard out to someone else to run or you can be more strict, have written rules, and be more selective re your liveries. Nothing wrong with any of those options, even if they make you the "bad guy" it's your yard.

Or consider not running a DIY yard? You'd have to raise your livery fee and possibly hire someone to help though.

If I were set on running a yard, and a DIY one at that, I'd be rather strict and selective. It can work with the right population, but finding those good liveries isn't easy.

 

[Chuffy99]

You may only have to flex your muscles once and get rid of the late payer to be taken more seriously
With good livery so hard to come by, you need to take control now and don’t let them walk over you, put in writing what you’ve told us and then enforce it

 

[QuantockHills]

blimey - you are very generous!! when I was in DIY, I had to supply all my own tools, wheelbarrow etc. I also had a signed by both parties contract, stating that livery was paid a month in advance... and you had to pay a deposit.
I think you are being too generous.....!! good luck with it though!

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Take away the tools. DIY means bring your own
Throw out late payer
Pop CCTV by arena, make sure you have everyone booking time slots for here and xc. Then, tell them that if 1 person doesn't pick up, the arena use is cancelled for 24 hours, end of. Lock gate.

Get a WhatsApp group together and turn off replies. Just do a message when required, eg 'if you guys don't sweep/clear up your own mess in communal areas, then you'll all get a months notice that DIY will cease and the yard will be part livery only.

I'm sure there are indeed perfectly lovely DIY people out there, I've had a few in the past but never again.

 

[little_critter]

I can't believe you went and bought new tools and poles for a DIY yard, myself. That would be the first thing to change. Everybody at my yard has their own! There are a few communal poles, but they were left by a livery yonks ago.

For the rest, draw up a list of rules along with a 'three strikes and you're out'. Use an online booking tool for the school, then you know who is using it and when and can act accordingly for the poo culprits.

Same here - when I was on DIY we each supplied our own tools & wheelbarrows. They lasted well because we didn't abuse our own tools.
Not forking up the muckheap was a bugbear of mine (and others) and we tended to self manage by politely reminding offenders to fork up the heap (if they didn't then we'd run out of space to add new muck to the trailer, it was the liveries who suffered so it was the liveries who policed it). Do you have some good and some bad liveries? Is there anything you can do to encourage the good liveries to keep the bad liveries in line? Maybe don't tidy the heap for them and say the heap is emptied every x weeks, they need to manage the heap correctly so it doesn't overflow before then.

 

[jay2bee]

I bought a few tools, just to be nice for those who didn’t have any and to have some extras about the place. But yeah, probably was a mug to do that looking back.

 

[Birker2020]

I’ll probably get recognised from this but I'm beyond caring at this point. This post will definitely turn into “A Letter to my Liveries” so bear with me.

I opened a DIY yard in April. 20 stables all full, 15 owners in total.
3 months down the line and it’s an absolute ballache.


One livery has been late with payments two of the three months and I’ve had to chase. I’ve told her if she doesn’t set up a standing order she is off the yard. Just taking the piss and trying to catch me out and get out of paying.


I bought all brand new yard tools when I opened the yard. Already I have two broken wheelbarrows (the expensive, big ones) and three broken broom handles. How? I’ve had tools that have lasted me decades - are they using them to pole dance on?


Every morning I go out to mess. When I say “tidy up after yourself” I don’t just mean the square footage directly in front of your stable door. Tidy up after you pull out hay and straw from the barn. Sweep up when you drop feed all over the tack room. Don’t let your horse trail arena surface or bedding across the whole yard.


It costs money and takes time to empty the muck heap. Fork it up. It takes ten seconds. If you are physically able to muck out a stable then you are physically able to fork up muck a metre , don’t give me shite about your bad back and how it’s too difficult and in the next sentence tell me you go hunting twice a week.


Do you know how expensive that brand new arena is? And the surface? Then why can’t you take thirty seconds after you ride to pick up the poo from it. Instead you leave it, then the next person says “well I’m not picking up someone else’s horse’s muck” and it gets ridden into the surface and that’s that.


I bought all new showjumps and a selection of portable XC jumps for the jump field. I understand that they will get damaged, but just tell me. Don’t leave broken poles in the arena and smashed XC jumps for the next person to find and potentially injure themself or their horse on.


When you’re parking your trailer, take care to make it straight and therefore make more room for everyone else to park theirs. I can’t believe I’m even going to have to tell people this. Some have taken to just haphazardly reversing it to wherever and unhitching and leaving, on a practically 45 degree angle, two metres away from the back wall.


The lack of basic horse management some people have. When I opened a DIY yard I didn’t anticipate the amount of input I need to have in basic stuff. I bite my tongue on stuff I see as preference, rug weights and tack and what have you, but welfare issues I have to speak out. Like when I think a horse has laminitis ( or is going to) and one who was left hobbling with an abscess as the owner wanted to “let it heal itself” instead of actually doing anything.


Oh my god. I’m regretting my life choices big style. I’m already considering renting it out to someone who wants to run it themself.

A lot of what you say I can resonate with, but I'm a livery and not a YO and wouldn't choose to be one either, all the hassle it can involve!

I've been on a few yards now, albeit long times on each, like 5 years, 4 years, 2 years, 17 years. I get about the muck heap, I always try and push my wheelbarrow as far onto the heap as I can before I tip it. And the trailer parking or in our case the car parking where people leave a four foot gap between their car and the car they've parked behind and the person behind them leaves an ever bigger gap!! Drives me nuts lol. I really take care of my stuff too. My wheelbarrow is 27 years old and my snow shovel is 24!

I think you have to have the patience of a saint to be a Y.O but on the plus side you meet lots of interesting characters, some of which can be friends for life. I genuinely love my YO she is a friend and someone who I can share my problems with and she has been very good to me.

But its not an easy job. I think even mine has considered at one point, although probably not too seriously turning it all into boarding kennels, it would be less hassle, and much more profitable and all the stables are there, not a lot of conversion needed really.

I suggest you should make a list of rules and make sure they enforce them, if they don't they have to find somewhere else, its that simple.

I must admit I do forget to take poo out of the washbox on occasion ! So once or twice might be a genuine mistake, but if its more often its just selfishness.

 

[Arzada]

I'm sorry you're being treated like this. I've been lucky on livery yards until recently when the lazy, leave my stuff anywhere, don't sweep up after my horse, use other people's stuff, nightmare arrived. It's soured the yard.

In your shoes I would remove all tools. It's DIY. I would increase the livery charge to more than cover the extra work involved in the muckheap, and anything else. I would not replace the broken jumps.

Re the suggestion that good liveries police the bad. That simply isn't fair. It isn't their role. They're already good liveries you want to keep and they're having to put up with the bad ones who are most likely already spoiling the yard for them.

 

[Trouper]

Send them each a message saying what you have said to us and give them one month to comply. Late payer also one month to comply. Definitely insist they use their own tools.

If no progress, then cameras everywhere to prove who is doing what so you can boot them off and keep the good ones.

 

[Polos Mum]

How about as well as a list of rules, write a price list for you clearing up after them and let them know it will be added to their bill

So - collect poo from school £1
sweep yard - £2

etc.

 

[Fred66]

Install cameras, increase weekly cost by £5 to recover this outlay
Inform them that failure to remove poos from arena is £10 and you will have cctv footage to identify (and anyone using that afternoon will be liable - so if there is a poo in there when they arrive move it and notify you so you can charge the preceding person)
Similarly with communal areas.
Anyone not parking straight gets told to straighten up, second time of telling then they can no longer park at yard.
Rental is in advance and extras billed monthly
DIY means provide your own tools, using yours will incur an additional charge

 

[ihatework]

It’s not a job for the faint hearted.

I also think you inevitably have to factor in some time and cost for overall management and communal area maintenance. It should be split fairly between DIYs but in reality it never is.

DIYs use their own tools. Full stop.

Firm but fair on rules, unfortunately you will not be everyone’s friend, but the majority will appreciate this. Warnings then give notice on non compliance. It’ll sharpen others up and long term attract a better calibre of livery.

Take a deposit and livery in advance. Insist on direct debit.

 

[Gloi]

This wouldn't happen on our yard. The owner has been an owner many years and takes no crap off anyone. She is pretty fair if you keep to her rules but any grief and you are gone. The stables soon fill again.

 

[dorsetladette]

I think you need to flex your muscles with the bad payer. Giving them notice would probably sharpen everyone else's focus.

Have a yard meeting - make sure everyone attends!

Explain you built a high end livery yard for high end liveries and if they want to stay they need to start showing the place some respect. If they want a shabby rundown yard with broken tools and a sh*ty surface then they should look for somewhere else. Tell them you'll happily take their notice as you have a waiting list (weather you do or not).

Set rules out clearly, you need to remember that you are not their mate/friend etc etc.

Like Polo's mum says charge them for doing the jobs they are not doing. If you end up spending more time than expected on general yard maintenance/cleaning/tidying then you need to increase their livery costs across the board. Often that sharpens people focus.

Address everything that is p*ssing you off and make sure you don't miss anything.

Don't feel like they are doing you a favour by being on your yard. Your doing them one by allowing them to be on your newly built expensive yard!

Good luck!

 

[Birker2020]

I think you need to flex your muscles with the bad payer. Giving them notice would probably sharpen everyone else's focus.
!

Agree. I never go more than about three days after receiving my bill before paying unless I genuinely don't have enough in the horse account until I can make it up next pay day which is my case is every Friday! I would hate having to wait on money off people.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

OK so I'm running very much a smaller set-up than yours OP, and yes I know the onlooker sees most of the game, but you have GOT to change things.

I betcha there's a rotton apple at the bottom of your barrow somewhere, and sadly you are going to have to boot them out. End of. And when you do that everything is going to go mega-t!ts up, right, but you must do this!

AND - sorry to disillusion you but I can practically guarantee this - I betcha that behind your back you are the Demon, the Hag, the Horrible Person who is bossing them around.....

You MUST change things.

You are running a business and NOT a charity. They are wrecking your tools, jumps, and dissing everything that you supply.

Firstly give the one that is taking the P!ss big-time notice. Written notice. Do it TODAY. Tell her in writing that her payments are overdue as of now and you will assume therefore that she will leaving your yard in X........ days (depending on what your period of notice is). Do it.

Take away the jumps.

Take away the tools.

You are being waayyy too soft.

Tell them that it is a STRICTLY DIY yard (I do!! I make it very clear right from the outset).

Then raise the livery fees by £10 per livery to cover all the odd-jobs like tidying up after them which involves either YOUR labour or someone else's.

They will not like it! Let them leave if they want to, and start again. You may have to start smaller next time round, but you need to be very very picky. I live on-site at my yard and believe me, I am MEGA-picky, because I can't have people on my place who are gonna take the you-know what.

Sorry but I am politely saying that you are gonna need to grow some...... this is an awful situation and only YOU have the power to change it. It won't be easy, and you will have to be drastic, it is the only way I'm afraid.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Advertise vacancies so you really do have a waiting list (and you can be sure your existing customers will see the advert).
Have a meeting to announce the changes verbally and give out a formally worded letter at the same time.
Give a time for getting used to the idea after which you will only take direct debit.
Breakages will be charged for. Any new people pay a month breakage deposit when they start, as well as the first months fee.
List the cleaning & tidying you are currently doing for them & give warning that if it continues to be necessary you will hire an employee to do it & that will result in the monthly charge going up by [announce a definite amount] to pay their wages.

 

[emilylou]

It sounds like a bit of tough love is required. Quite simply, its your yard and if people aren't willing to follow your rules then you can give them notice to leave and get nicer liveries to replace them.

-I'd up the livery cost to include 'headache money' - a cushion to allow you to either get a self employed person to do a general yard tidy a couple of hours a week or to pay yourself to do a couple of extra hours yard work to check and tidy things. DIY yards are notoriously messy as they are usually occupied by owners who are a bit cash and time poor and if its a communal area then they wont necessarily be inclined to worry about it being tidy all the time.

-I'd give any non paying liveries notice and hold a month's livery deposit for future ones if you don't already

- Put away your yard tools and let people buy their own

- Ask all liveries if they'd like to use the jumps would they prefer to pay into a communal 'jump fund' (something like £20 a year each) to replace broken jumps/jump maintenance or if they would like to purchase their own. Even though the 'fund' is a nominal amount it will change their attitude towards the jumps and hopefully promote better care of them.

- Set clear boundaries. All of your other points are subjective and vary yard to yard eg. muck heap etiquette etc, do you have a clear list of yard rules and expectations? If not then I would make one, display in the yard and also a copy each livery has to read and sign. Its difficult to hold people to standards if they aren't clear in the first place

- anyone who is making your life miserable, give notice. You can get new liveries and life is too short.

 

[PapaverFollis]

You've got to be a hard nut to run a DIY effectively. I've always preferred a present, involved, firm but fair yard manager who takes and maintains their authority enforcing rules. A bad yard manager is disinterested, disengaged, erratic, inconsistent in enforcing rules...

GOOD liveries will appreciate you being strict. Bad liveries will leave because you will tell them where to go.

Just to say though that being on the receiving end of general punishment because others are ignoring rules when you are the person who turns themselves inside out to follow them is very upsetting. If at all possible target those who are actually the bad apples rather than punish everyone. This is where being present and involved comes in, so you know who is not respecting the yard and can act accordingly.

 

[Birker2020]

Re the suggestion that good liveries police the bad. That simply isn't fair. It isn't their role. They're already good liveries you want to keep and they're having to put up with the bad ones who are most likely already spoiling the yard for them.

I agree. You don't want to create a load of stool pigeons either. That creates a horrible atmosphere.

 

[humblepie]

Don't though upset the good liveries though! Make sure you address the issues with the ones causing them not everyone. How about putting down some marks for where trailers should park? Just realised PapaverFollis has posted pretty much the same.

 

[dorsetladette]

I gave a bad non paying livery notice, ended up putting abandonment notices up and selling her fence trashing pony to cover my out of pocket expenses. Liveries can be the Bane of your life or the best thing ever - you do have to kiss a few frogs to get it right.

My current livery (I only have one thank god) I would bend over backwards for as she is a real diamond.

 

[ROMANY 1959]

When I was on the last yard I used, before we sold horses. We had to pay two months in advance on moving to yard, and a 200 deposit , so basically we gave notice and did not pay for last month on yard, and if all was well , we got 200 deposit back, but any breakages, not repaired , like holes in stable wall, broken door bolt, if I had not had it fixed it came out of deposit. There was a few jumps in arena. But we had to provide our own, own tools, hay nets, mounting steps, all yard provided was tack room essentials like hooks, saddle rack and rug rails outside stables . £20 a month for lorry parking, and access to yard from 7 am to 9 pm earlier/ later by arrangement. It was. A great yard. yO brilliant, qualified instructor, helpful but we had to play by the rules. We had a few on yard who were messy. Like tie up horses with a hay net outside stable, and never brush up. So I agree with others, you need start getting g hard with them. Call a meeting, put it all on paper and tell them a month to improve things or notices will be started. Good luck

 

[Barton Bounty]

I think every one of your requests os warranted. All normal rules on a yard, doesnt sound like they respect your stuff.
Id take the tools away and they can use their own! Ive always had my own stuff etc so if it breaks its me lol.
My livery where I am just now is where my friend lives and i am so conscious that she lives there that I clear up everything after myself, I know how I would feel.
Old livery place I was at, never ever been late with livery always early. But someone was and the guy just tied the horse at the entrance and left it there! Told her to get to fudge and that was it

 

[honetpot]

The person that will not or can not pay, borrow a Sum-up machine and link to your phone bank account, and get them to pay by debit or credit card. OK you pay a fee, but it stops the whole rigmarole of I will pay you.... I would also give them notice to quit, with a print out of what can happen if they do not leave.
I have only had 2/3 liveries, I have insurance for seven but have none. One never turned up, and sent me a message that she had had them PTS, one left a huge debt and I had to evict her, and one started not feeding their horse, so I got rid quick.
I do wonder if you are new, you get all the dross that everyone else is trying to move on, they all have a sob story. You can not afford to be nice and the livery yards that I was on long term the YO had lump or go attitude, and provided nothing, we all did our own thing and he shovelled up the muck heap once a week.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Honestly, what is wrong with people! I could never do that to someone! Thats terrible, i dont have debt anyway. Pay as I go. Just dont get some people

 

[SantaVera]

Ditto what the others have posted do you have a written contract with the liveries and do they pay by DD? Tbh I think this is the only way forward, also do they actually know what the rules are? Whilst it may seem obvious to you I found as a yo years ago that it may not be obvious to others a list of rules can save a lot of trouble. For example,in a different domestic setting, I generally leave the dinner washing up in the sink until next morning,whereas my sister and mother wouldn't dream of doing this. Another way forward is to do assisted livery and no DIY at all.

 

[little_critter]

I agree. You don't want to create a load of stool pigeons either. That creates a horrible atmosphere.

Sorry - I think my suggestion didn't come across as intended. We weren't asked by the YO to police the muckheap, it was just that as the trailer was only emptied once a week, if we were sloppy about chucking it up it was us that ended up struggling to squeeze our barrow on the edge of the trailer. So the 'good' liveries tended to have a word with the 'lazy' liveries if they took the mick.
But we were lucky in that good liveries were in the majority and we mostly all got on ok.