vic07
Well-Known Member
i just wonder whether this argument will continue to the point were it is then not safe to ride without a back protector?
Hatless in H&H adverts.
- Thread starter silversox
- Start date
Stella
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Although I agree it's your right to choose, it isn't your right to use my taxpayers money to pay for your long term care in hospital or a team of medical staff to repair the damage to your brain.
[/ QUOTE ] Think about this a little. Of course its their/your/my right to use taxpayers money for this! That is what social healthcare is all about in a democracy. In a democratic society, we all make our own choices within the law. Whether that is fell walking (more fatalities every year than horse riding - should we ban it?), mountain climbing, motor racing, sking, unprotected sex etc, etc. Different individual will approve/disaprove of different behaviours, but we all (well, those of us who work) pay into a shared system of health care that picks up the pieces when it goes wrong without making judgements! Before we start to dismantle that, we need to think very carefully about the dire consequences of doing so, as it inevitably must end in lots of people not being covered for health care. Also, do you know that your tax is spent on people having tatoos removed and breasts made bigger because they are upset by them? - that isn't even healthcare!
Although I agree it's your right to choose, it isn't your right to use my taxpayers money to pay for your long term care in hospital or a team of medical staff to repair the damage to your brain.
[/ QUOTE ] Think about this a little. Of course its their/your/my right to use taxpayers money for this! That is what social healthcare is all about in a democracy. In a democratic society, we all make our own choices within the law. Whether that is fell walking (more fatalities every year than horse riding - should we ban it?), mountain climbing, motor racing, sking, unprotected sex etc, etc. Different individual will approve/disaprove of different behaviours, but we all (well, those of us who work) pay into a shared system of health care that picks up the pieces when it goes wrong without making judgements! Before we start to dismantle that, we need to think very carefully about the dire consequences of doing so, as it inevitably must end in lots of people not being covered for health care. Also, do you know that your tax is spent on people having tatoos removed and breasts made bigger because they are upset by them? - that isn't even healthcare!
KateStartin
Well-Known Member
If there was nobody to pick these people up and mend them i wonder if they might wear a hat.
Of the 5 people who ride where i work i am the only person who wears a hat with chin strap done up!, The only reason they don't is because of image. These are not safe horses they are SJ stallions and young horses, it is so irresponsible and drives me mad as i can just imagine one of them falling off out hacking and having to deal with an unconcious person where there is no phone signal, and a loose stallion while i am riding a mare!
The worst of it is the newest member of staff is 17, now i am fairly convinced she only rides with her chinstrap undone because the others do, she rode out on a 3yo today which i backed only 3 weeks ago and nobody made her do up her hat. I said i wasn't happy but don't have the authority to make her. She was also clearly worried about said horse but obviously more worried about her image
Of the 5 people who ride where i work i am the only person who wears a hat with chin strap done up!, The only reason they don't is because of image. These are not safe horses they are SJ stallions and young horses, it is so irresponsible and drives me mad as i can just imagine one of them falling off out hacking and having to deal with an unconcious person where there is no phone signal, and a loose stallion while i am riding a mare!
The worst of it is the newest member of staff is 17, now i am fairly convinced she only rides with her chinstrap undone because the others do, she rode out on a 3yo today which i backed only 3 weeks ago and nobody made her do up her hat. I said i wasn't happy but don't have the authority to make her. She was also clearly worried about said horse but obviously more worried about her image
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
Oh but Stella I'd stop loads of stuff done on the NHS had I the opportunity, (bigger/smaller breasts, tattoo removal amongst them..)
It's no good I'm a staunch member of the hang 'em flog 'em brigade with pretty old fashioned views and although I don't begrudge a penny of money spent patching up any injuries that happen, I do begrudge preventable ones, and wearing a hat is something that protects and prevents injuries being worse..
(and guess who's daughter has just ridden the stallion schooling with no hat...I give up
It's no good I'm a staunch member of the hang 'em flog 'em brigade with pretty old fashioned views and although I don't begrudge a penny of money spent patching up any injuries that happen, I do begrudge preventable ones, and wearing a hat is something that protects and prevents injuries being worse..
(and guess who's daughter has just ridden the stallion schooling with no hat...I give up
Stella
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Oh but Stella I'd stop loads of stuff done on the NHS had I the opportunity, (bigger/smaller breasts, tattoo removal amongst them..)
It's no good I'm a staunch member of the hang 'em flog 'em brigade with pretty old fashioned views and although I don't begrudge a penny of money spent patching up any injuries that happen, I do begrudge preventable ones, and wearing a hat is something that protects and prevents injuries being worse..
(and guess who's daughter has just ridden the stallion schooling with no hat...I give up
[/ QUOTE ] I hear ya, but its the question of where the line is drawn isn't it. I always wear a hat mounted. For that matter, I'd wear one lunging a horse I didn't know or going into a dodgy herd, but I don't wear a body protector. Some people believe that they prevent injury everywhere not just jumping fixed fences! Could there be a day where a rider could be refused treatment to her torso because she/he wasn't wearing a BP. Riders are still in the minority and a majority of people could decide that riding XC is too risking and that anyone doing it was therefore taking an unecassary risk! ... you see where I'm going
Oh but Stella I'd stop loads of stuff done on the NHS had I the opportunity, (bigger/smaller breasts, tattoo removal amongst them..)
It's no good I'm a staunch member of the hang 'em flog 'em brigade with pretty old fashioned views and although I don't begrudge a penny of money spent patching up any injuries that happen, I do begrudge preventable ones, and wearing a hat is something that protects and prevents injuries being worse..
(and guess who's daughter has just ridden the stallion schooling with no hat...I give up
[/ QUOTE ] I hear ya, but its the question of where the line is drawn isn't it. I always wear a hat mounted. For that matter, I'd wear one lunging a horse I didn't know or going into a dodgy herd, but I don't wear a body protector. Some people believe that they prevent injury everywhere not just jumping fixed fences! Could there be a day where a rider could be refused treatment to her torso because she/he wasn't wearing a BP. Riders are still in the minority and a majority of people could decide that riding XC is too risking and that anyone doing it was therefore taking an unecassary risk! ... you see where I'm going
silversox
Well-Known Member
To get back to the original question - should H&H publish photos of horses for sale being ridden by hatless riders????
The subject is not about whether we should wear a hat or not, but whether the sellers who send these pics in should have any credibility, and whether H&H should make a stand against such advertisers. H&H could set a good example by suggesting that riders in all photos should be wearing a hat.
Is this asking too much? Are we becoming a nanny state?
Do we really care about the influence that others have over our impressionable off-spring?
The subject is not about whether we should wear a hat or not, but whether the sellers who send these pics in should have any credibility, and whether H&H should make a stand against such advertisers. H&H could set a good example by suggesting that riders in all photos should be wearing a hat.
Is this asking too much? Are we becoming a nanny state?
Do we really care about the influence that others have over our impressionable off-spring?
WelshRareBit
Well-Known Member
Generally I always wear a hat. Yes there have been odd occassions when I havent - thats obviously my own choice (read fault if i fall off andcrack my skull open)
I dont think adverts/articles in any magazine have influenced me in any way (maybe thats just because I have my head screwed on properly - I dont know) Point is, people can see it in the school, in their local yard, in shows - its a bit of a silly thing to start doing when they can see it in plenty of other places anyway. Hope that makes sense. x
I dont think adverts/articles in any magazine have influenced me in any way (maybe thats just because I have my head screwed on properly - I dont know) Point is, people can see it in the school, in their local yard, in shows - its a bit of a silly thing to start doing when they can see it in plenty of other places anyway. Hope that makes sense. x
Tia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Are we becoming a nanny state?
[/ QUOTE ]
If H&H were to enforce this...then yes it would certainly be seen as Nanny-State type tactics.
[ QUOTE ]
Do we really care about the influence that others have over our impressionable off-spring?
[/ QUOTE ]
That is the parents job - absolutely nothing to do with people selling horses in my opinion.
Are we becoming a nanny state?
[/ QUOTE ]
If H&H were to enforce this...then yes it would certainly be seen as Nanny-State type tactics.
[ QUOTE ]
Do we really care about the influence that others have over our impressionable off-spring?
[/ QUOTE ]
That is the parents job - absolutely nothing to do with people selling horses in my opinion.
mat
Well-Known Member
I think it is fine.
I always wear a hat on a horse that is not well behaved or is green and out hacking and when jumping large fences, however I feel safer on all my horses than I usually do whilst out driving my car!!!!
The reason I dont always wear a hat is because I can ride anything up to 9 horses on a busy day. Can you imagine how uncomfortable, hot and sweaty my head would get for all of those hours in the saddle? I would never encourage a client of mine to do the same, but if they wanted to do it at their own risk then I wouldn't force them to wear one.
For the same reaon I sometimes ride in trainers as opposed to boots.
It was only 50 yrs ago that nobody battered a eyelid at people not wearing a hat, or jumping internationally in just a skull cap.
Yes accidents can happen when riding, but I could slip down my stairs and break my neck, but I dont wear all over body protection and keep a matress at the bottom to prevent injury!
We seem to be getting to the point where advertising food is even made illegal so as not to allow fat people to be tempted to eat!!!!
If people have an issue with the adverts, then they should just not buy the horse / services!!!
I always wear a hat on a horse that is not well behaved or is green and out hacking and when jumping large fences, however I feel safer on all my horses than I usually do whilst out driving my car!!!!
The reason I dont always wear a hat is because I can ride anything up to 9 horses on a busy day. Can you imagine how uncomfortable, hot and sweaty my head would get for all of those hours in the saddle? I would never encourage a client of mine to do the same, but if they wanted to do it at their own risk then I wouldn't force them to wear one.
For the same reaon I sometimes ride in trainers as opposed to boots.
It was only 50 yrs ago that nobody battered a eyelid at people not wearing a hat, or jumping internationally in just a skull cap.
Yes accidents can happen when riding, but I could slip down my stairs and break my neck, but I dont wear all over body protection and keep a matress at the bottom to prevent injury!
We seem to be getting to the point where advertising food is even made illegal so as not to allow fat people to be tempted to eat!!!!
If people have an issue with the adverts, then they should just not buy the horse / services!!!
Wishful
Well-Known Member
What about riding it top hats - how much protection do they actually have?
emma69
Well-Known Member
Part of me wants to say 'of course they should publish them, what has it got to do with anybody else' but the nagging part of me says the following:
When I worked at a riding school I was regulaly the most senior person around. During the summer, reading H&H and all the others, looking at the horses for sale was a constant past time of the kids at lunchtimes. I could tell if they had read these adverts at lunchtime, simply by the number of times I would catch them trying to ride without a hat / undone hat etc. They thought that the lack of hat meant a) the horse was super safe and b) the rider was super good. I'm still not sure how to get across the fact that not wearing a hat does not equal a good rider. I am certainly not perfect, I have ridden a number of times without a hat - but I never ever ever ride in a public place (hacking, in the arena, warming up at shows etc) without a hat on, because I feel that I have some responsibility (maybe less so now, but certainly when I was teaching large numbers of children) to set a good example. It doesn't bother that adults ride without hats so much, but when they do it in front of impressionable kids, it really does. We had a completely up herself instructor who often 'hopped on' horses in lessons (another pet peeve) without a hat on - usually when the hat was right there on a jump block. She thought it made her 'look better than them' - what tosh! If nothing else it voided the riding school insurance, set an appaling example to the kids etc. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
I would certainly prefer to see more riding hats in H&H - especially as I know people take them off specifically to make their horses seem safer etc in adverts (I know one dealer who does it very calculatingly!)
When I worked at a riding school I was regulaly the most senior person around. During the summer, reading H&H and all the others, looking at the horses for sale was a constant past time of the kids at lunchtimes. I could tell if they had read these adverts at lunchtime, simply by the number of times I would catch them trying to ride without a hat / undone hat etc. They thought that the lack of hat meant a) the horse was super safe and b) the rider was super good. I'm still not sure how to get across the fact that not wearing a hat does not equal a good rider. I am certainly not perfect, I have ridden a number of times without a hat - but I never ever ever ride in a public place (hacking, in the arena, warming up at shows etc) without a hat on, because I feel that I have some responsibility (maybe less so now, but certainly when I was teaching large numbers of children) to set a good example. It doesn't bother that adults ride without hats so much, but when they do it in front of impressionable kids, it really does. We had a completely up herself instructor who often 'hopped on' horses in lessons (another pet peeve) without a hat on - usually when the hat was right there on a jump block. She thought it made her 'look better than them' - what tosh! If nothing else it voided the riding school insurance, set an appaling example to the kids etc. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
I would certainly prefer to see more riding hats in H&H - especially as I know people take them off specifically to make their horses seem safer etc in adverts (I know one dealer who does it very calculatingly!)
hussar
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything foraday said. As a child I saw a girl who'd been ahead of me in a string of RS ponies out hacking fall off when her pony spooked. She landed on her head on the road. She had a hat on but the elastic (this was a long time ago) wasn't under her chin and the hat came off before she hit the road. We stood around and watched her die.
I have never in 40-odd years of riding ridden without a hat. I see the ads in H&H and don't think 'What a safe horse'. I think 'What an idiotic rider'. I wouldn't buy a horse from anyone who rode without a hat - I'd wonder what other stupidities had been part of their horse-ownership.
When will people realise that horse-riding is second only to motorcycling in the dangerous sports list? Would anyone disagree that the law requiring motorcyclists to wear helmets is sensible? And motorbikes don't spook, buck or rear unexpectedly or kick you when you're on the ground.
I have never in 40-odd years of riding ridden without a hat. I see the ads in H&H and don't think 'What a safe horse'. I think 'What an idiotic rider'. I wouldn't buy a horse from anyone who rode without a hat - I'd wonder what other stupidities had been part of their horse-ownership.
When will people realise that horse-riding is second only to motorcycling in the dangerous sports list? Would anyone disagree that the law requiring motorcyclists to wear helmets is sensible? And motorbikes don't spook, buck or rear unexpectedly or kick you when you're on the ground.
silversox
Well-Known Member
Thanks, all of you, for voting. I thought I had put an 'end' date for the poll, but it seems that I didn't, so I don't know when it will end. At present the results are ~ 58% for publishing and 42% against, which really surprises me. I posted this question/poll just to suss out people's opinion on this; I have no personal interest either way.
BUT ....... HAVE YOU SEEN H&H THIS WEEK???? Someone has been very busy with the scissors!!!!
BUT ....... HAVE YOU SEEN H&H THIS WEEK???? Someone has been very busy with the scissors!!!!