Have i been doing it wrong all this time?!

[lucky7]

I have a welsh D who is 6 yrs old. He is green but he is getting better but we have yet to really crack our canter in the school, he generally finds it difficult on the right rein in general. He can leg yield one side perfectly but struggles with the going right, he also finds it hard to strike off on the correct leg on this rein (but will do it correct after a couple of tries). We have a lesson every few weeks which helps and sometimes my instructor will get on, he listens to her and she can have him doing everything (i get on afterward and hes like a different horse, really light and forwards) but still says hes stiff on one side but it will come in the end and gives me exercises to try. I had her take him on for a week just to correct him and help iron out a few problems which helped loads and felt a real difference so was pleased. However sometimes if i am on my own schooling i find he can be so hard to bring him together and have him working nicely over his back, some days he will be lovely and so forward thinking and be like a feather and glide, other times hes stiff, ridged, wont bend, crab and braces against the hand and is lazy and behind the leg and hollow (if hes like this on the lesson sometimes the instructor will pop on him and after a few mins he lovely and elastic and soft and forward. So we had a bit of a frustrating lesson a few weeks back and he wouldn't soften and was constantly behind the leg and felt awful Since then i have not been in the school, been hacking mainly and doing a bit of fast work and different routes which has really perked him up and gets him forward thinking and off the leg. Lots of cantering to help him find his balance without circles and corners, its less stressful for me too as actually enjoying a blast and not worrying what hes doing beneath me too much.
I have booked out an excellent physio who is coming this week to give him a really good look over to rule anything physical out on his part.
So thats a bit of background. Now i have been riding for a long time (over 20 years)and rode lots of horses and had lots of lessons with various instructors/trainers, always really enjoyed flatwork and dressage . I was always taught to ride the horse up into the contact/bridle by keeping them forward with the leg and seat and *catching* the front end through elasticated bungee elbows allowing him to stretch down and seek the contact but gently squeezing the reins (not see sawing) - i am still taught that to this day. However i have seen various things on social media regarding this as being incorrect and there is no need to have a contact on the horses mouth as its all to do with seat and position? i think its called ride with your mind, its always on FB.
Have i been doing it wrong all these years? are people teaching this incorrectly? i for one find it difficult and tiring using my method i have been show, this other lady who i have seen says it should not be like that? or is it a marketing gimmick? she sells the information and videos online for £80 plus - i admit i am tempted?
OR is it me or the horse?!! would he benefit from a few weeks again with the instructor?

 

[Kylara]

From what you have said he just sounds like an inconsistent and weak young horse. You'll get good days and not so good days. On the not so good days reduce your expectations - work on getting him to bend round your leg on a circle in walk for eg and when he does end the session. That sort of thing.

Inconsistencies to the contact are not unusual in babies as is difficulties with canter or strike offs. This is generally weakness and a favouritism of one side. The more you do the better it will get. Short bits of correct canter are better than long so that they use the weak muscles and then relax.

In regards to the contact being unnecessary, it does rather rely on the capabilities of rider and horse. It is unfair on a baby to expect no support up front, but then again if they have self carriage/are sitting comfortably in the contact you should be able to give the contact away and take it back with no problems. As always once they are there you should stop 'helping' with the reins so they get a better idea of what is 'good' and where they should hold themselves. If you keep playing with the reins even when they are working correctly then yes you need to work on not doing that.

In regards to sending away to your trainer for a week, it wouldn't hurt as you have said he works lovely after worked by the trainer. It may help to ask to watch what they do and have them talk it through as it happens. It may simply be they are quicker at responding to him and correcting.

Horses should be trained in such a way that they are not being 'held' with the hand, but it comes with time and training. I've got a green 8 year old and he struggles with cantering properly in self carriage and striking off to the right (in the middle of canter sessions) as he panics and just canters, his favourite lead is left too. We work on spiral circles and difference within the pace, transitions and he needs lifting in front but as soon as he is in the right place he has no rein help (aside from consistent contact, he's not quite there for give and retake) until he fumbles. Inside rein can be your friend here in all paces treat it like a stretchy band. Inside leg on, stretch inside rein out and forwards and drop it back when they bend. Properly drop it so there is no contact and then pick it back up. If they plank on you repeat. It's great if they hang on your rein or aren't bending. You are emphasising what you want and rewarding immediately when they respond. In canter the outside rein is the most important. Solid consistent contact at all times to support and turn.

 

[LeannePip]

Inside leg on, stretch inside rein out and forwards and drop it back when they bend. Properly drop it so there is no contact and then pick it back up. If they plank on you repeat. It's great if they hang on your rein or aren't bending. You are emphasising what you want and rewarding immediately when they respond. In canter the outside rein is the most important. Solid consistent contact at all times to support and turn.

I echo everything said above but the quoted bit is exactly what alot of people struggle with, and its a great tool to establish early that a little give and re-take is a reward but it also helps to irradicate leaning when done correctly and consistently.

Ride with your mind is another school of riding completely and if this is what you want to try then give it a go but in my experience it doesn't work as a mix and match between more conventional methods and it doesn't work with all horses. I had a few lessons on a horse for an owner as this was what was taught at the riding school she liveried at, i didn't think much of it and none of the horses in the school went particularly well, they just seemed to do their own thing (literally), but this says more about the establishment than the method!

It sounds like you are making progress and don't fret about the canter too much; welshes weren't made to canter, they have been bred for years to trot so whilst its good once established, for some of them it can take a while! It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to send to your trainer again for a week or so, just to get you both back into the swing of things but agree with above see if you can go and watch some sessions and get them to talk to you the whole time; what he's doing, how he feels and what they are doing to help - if i'm riding a horse for someone because they are struggling with something or they want a second opinion this is what i do and it really helps me in that short space of time establish where the usual rider is having issues and to find a fix or a work around.

 

[Micropony]

A good Ride With Your Mind person shouldn't be telling you to ride any differently to a good conventional trainer, by which I mean they are aiming for you to be doing exactly the same thing they just use different language to talk about it.

For example if my conventional trainer thinks someone's riding is a bit handy he would say something like 'ride from your leg to your hand, not the other way around' or 'you need to get the horse working forward over his back and swinging more so you have some energy to contain' whereas a RWYM person would talk about your 'push forward needing to be stronger than your pull back' by which they are also talking about how you should be using your core muscles.

I have never had any training from anyone that suggests you should be riding without a contact, or that 'lightness in front' is something it's reasonable to expect from a horse before it's able to work consistently in balance and self carriage in all 3 paces.

So if you've been doing it wrong all these years, so have I!

 

[oldie48]

Some years ago in one of the horsey mags there used to be a regular article where people could send in photos of themselves riding and Mary Wanless (I'm pretty sure it was her) would give a very detailed account of what was wrong with the rider's position and how it was affecting the horse. TBH I found the analysis very complicated and it made me feel totally useless as I knew I'd never be able to ride with so many things to think about. After reading your post I had a quick look at a RWYM video and nothing suggested to me that you ride without a contact but I did get that, "oh my goodness everything I do is wrong" feeling that I used to get when I looked at the article. There are many roads to Rome and I always worry if someone tells me there's only one and it's their way!

 

[Cortez]

Judging by what is routinely seen round and about quite a lot of people are "doing it wrong".....

 

[Goldenstar]

To train the horse you need to influence it's neck .
That's different to holding the horses head into postion using the hand .
And I think this where confusion can slip in .
On your cantering the problem is that the horse is crooked I know this because of what you say about the leg yielding .
You can help by making the canter transitions from walk and try using a little counter bend in the transition to canter ( this helps you to stop the shoulder slipping left ) .
I also use a jumping whip to tap the horses shoulder in the transition this helps the horse understand what's going wrong .
Be sure that you keep the neck very straight when leg yielding to the left and make sure he not falling out through the shoulder .
And I would practise the leg yield much much more to the right than to the left.

 

[honetpot]

I read the Mary Wanless books many years ago when I had been riding 15+years, and it was a real light bulb moment. It was the first time sports phycology had been used in riding as well as a simple introduction to biomechanics, these ideas are now more mainstream.
I think of contact as putting your thumb on the end of a hosepipe, if there is no water pressure you will stop the flow, if you restrict the water to much and it backfires in your face, you have to allow the energy flow through the horse, once you have created it, and control it. To me the idea is to have consistent contact responding to the horses level of education, and the situation. There is a saying 'a novice horse makes you look a novice rider', that's because they can only carry themselves in the same frame for a short time and as a result you are constantly adjusting. I wouldn't worry about getting it very day or all the time, just remember the feel when you do and work on that.
One of the things that I learned from the RWYM books, is that people that ride well are not always the best teachers, you have to find someone who has lots of tools to help you, that if one thing doesn't work they have another idea. Otherwise you are just practicing getting it wrong.

 

[scats]

The biggest mistake I see as an instructor is this need people feel to 'give' the contact away when they feel the horse soften. People often believe this is a way of rewarding the horse, but in reality, the reward comes from the consistency of the light contact. A horse working properly seeks a contact to work into. If you throw the rein at them every time they soften, you actually discourage them from doing this again.
I don't believe in 'sponging' or 'fiddling' and I find it completely unecessary. If a horse is worked correctly, with lots of transitions, inside leg creating the impulsion which is then contained via the outside hand (the feeling that the horse is stepping up from your inside leg and into the bridle- when you feel it, you feel like you have the horse completely 'under you') then they will begin to soften and come into a light contact, placing their head and neck in the correct position that is encouraged through a steady, consistent contact; not a constantly changing one.

 

[lucky7]

Thank you for your replies, you have reassured me and given me a little push to carry on!
Took him in the school the day after and he was in his lovely light mood again - he was very fresh which in made him more forwards and we did lots of leg yielding, shoulder in travers and spirals which really helps him soften up and straighten him out and gets him listening! Rode him the same as normal. Hes funny in the way in one day he will be very soft and willing and the next hes behind the leg and just braces himself against me
I did about 35 mins with him then left it on a good note. Thats was Tuesday, since then we have hacked out and he had today off. I have some more dressage on the 4th so hoping to do a bit better than last time and not to feel too intimidated by everyone else!!

 

[Kylara]

Funny you should say that. My 4 year old has been coming on leaps and bounds but last few days we have had leaning on the right rein. Takes 15 minutes to sort and then back to being a dream! She is due teeth though so a small excuse. And she decided to be extra off the leg to evade the whole contact thing plus leaning on my right hand - felt like I had a monster (hardly worth complaining about really as she is so good) but as soon as she focused went very nicely indeed. Babies are just super inconsistent at times, they are growing and have days when they'd rather not and days when it feels like you could just go on forever.

 

[Bernster]

I'm in a similar situation to you in many ways. Brining on a younger greener horse yourself can be tricky as an amateur rider, and I am regularly questioning myself and whether I'm good enough for him and whether we're progressing in the right way.

Def agree that they can be weak, inconsistent and one sided. Make sure it's not a physical thing. Mine has regular physio, back, saddle and teeth checks. If all ok, then it's a case of regular lessons for me, making sure we're working properly, and pole work to help strengthen him. I use one trainer mainly but I do clinics with others, as a way of trying slightly different approaches.

I found the Mary wanless stuff very helpful a few years back although it takes a while to get the hang of it and I found it very slow going.

Hacking and straight work is good, especially if yours is having a 'riding a plank of wood' day!

 

[Cortez]

If your horses are particularly brilliant one day, and then awful the next, it is most likely that they are tired, stiff or sore after exerting themselves exceptionally. If one of ours has a "fantastic" session they automatically have a day off mooching in the paddock after. Ever noticed how much better horses are after a week off? Same result.

 

[Kylara]

Mine also get a day off after excellent work. Especially the baby ones or the ones that are building muscle. Any difficult work like bounces or cavaletti are followed by a day off or a short slow hack.

Mental stimulation is just as tiring for babies as hard work. And definitely get regular teeth, physio, saddle fitting as they pack on muscle and can become wonky sooo quickly! One of mine also works brilliantly with new shoes - more grip means more energy obviously

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I question the necessity of the instructor getting on to sort the horse out every time you can't. Surely that means the instructor isn't teaching you exactly what it is that they're doing? You're not a wobbly novice with no core strength, you've been riding a long time. So if you can't get the same results as the instructor, whilst that instructor is present to advise you, I question their ability to explain things adequately.