Have I given him a fair chance?

[be positive]

I currently have a 3 year old collie on trial, private rehome, he is sweet in general, is ok in the garden and has now become focused on a squeeky toy so has some recall, the ball he came with was not interesting enough to keep him focused on anything, indoors he is settling and ok in the crate, loves his food .

Now the negatives, he has no recall unless I use the squeeky and reward with a treat, it is reasonable within the confines of the garden but he loses it outside, he is very reactive to the horses, and the cattle next door, I can barely hold him when he launches while I am trying to get him quietly watching, the horses are totally indifferent, I 'need' a dog that can be wandering about with me while I work not one that either has to be shut away or kept on a tight lead and my instinct is that this is not going to improve without a lot of work and time, he barks constantly if tied up although is relatively happy, also barking during the night but that I suspect will improve quickly.

I am going to phone the owner later but want to feel it is right for him, he is proving too reactive with their children and has been a bit snappy but to my mind they have not instilled the basics in him and that is why I am struggling, I don't want to give up but he is not easy and I am not sure I have the time or lifestyle he needs, thoughts please, I am not expecting instant success but have never dealt with such a reactive, unsocialised dog before.

 

[meleeka]

oh goodness this takes me back to the border collie I owned. He was very hard work as he was so reactive to everything. Looking back I wouldn’t have had a collie. I didn’t have kids when I got him and when they were born he adored them, but I couldn’t trust him with anyone else’s.

How long have you had him? I think in your shoes I’d avoid anything with a herd drive and go for a spaniel type dog, still happy to be outdoors but not interested in anything other than their toys.

eta - I didn’t follow my own advice with the two I had. I adored the bones of them and kept them their whole lives even though they were a nightmare ?

 

[Roxylola]

He sounds like he will need a lot of work and likely forever be a drivey dog. Hed be better off in a different setting I think - someone who wants a competition dog rather than a pet maybe - agility, obedience,heelwork to music etc,

 

[bonny]

I think it’s very hard to change an adult collie, they become very set in their ways, obsessive over some things and it would be very hard to turn any problems around. He doesn’t sound like the dog for you and I think you could spend a long time and a lot of effort for very little reward

 

[Bellasophia]

Reading this objectively..
this is not your dog ,but you’ve agreed to evaluate him..credit to you,but don’t become saddled with a dog that you already see is not a dog that will fit well in your own home. ( as per your post) .


...he is not suitable for a pet home,after all he is a high drive collie.
...he needs a working home.
So , realistically..

you can help the owner to get him into a serious collie rescue..

Or...you could also try to find a working home for the dog..at this point an agilty ,obedience,working sport ,home as Roxy suggested.
The dog is now three years old ,the chance of becoming serious herd worker are probably non existent .
Dont beat yourself up..this dog needs people like you to seriously talk to current owners and help to get the dog better placed.
Good luck.

 

[be positive]

I have always had collies most were pups, the one rescue I had was older but had no drive or obsession, apart from being with me, the main difference is they have all overlapped so had a good role model whereas this boy is alone, I think he would be totally different with another but I cannot magic up one of my previous dogs to set an example.
I wouldn't mind doing some 'work' with him but think anything like that would be helped by having another dog to work with at home, he would benefit from a very busy life with a job to do rather than just the pet home he was in.

Thanks you have made it easier to make the call, if it was a horse I wouldn't give up so quickly but I really do not want to keep him and regret it, while he is still not mine I can send him back with less guilt.

 

[twiggy2]

All those things can be improved and fairly quickly but will take a lot of work and effort.
If he is barking and generally making a fuss at stock he is too close and over threshold.
The same for recall really he can do it in a boring place amd needs the distractions to be increased slowly.
If your not up for a lot of dedicated hard training then return him there is no judgement on that, I would help th owners finds a suitable rescue to take him in as I would feel happier having done that.
Where are you based as someone may know someone in the area who can help.

 

[Blanche]

Put the owners in touch with a rescue, such as http://www.thebordercolliespot.com/ . He doesn't seem like the right dog for you or your lifestyle.

 

[be positive]

Things look promising, I drive past a place sometimes that has agility obstacles set up so I went to see what they did, it turns out she is a BC rescue and is happy to take him on, if the owners agree, she is very committed and willing to help so it could be for the best, I didn't want him to go back as that is not helpful for him, I think he will be much better with other dogs around and she does not let them go unless the home is right.

I could put in more effort but he can see horses and cattle from almost anywhere outside so it is hard to get much focus, even inside he tends to wander off rather than stay nearby losing interest very quickly.

 

[CorvusCorax]

They all sound like typical behaviours for a collie with no job to do, at three years old most of these will be ingrained, but your update sounds very positive
I generally think if you are having second thoughts there is usually a good reason and having a dog you don't gel with isn't good for/fair on the dog, they know!!

 

[AmyMay]

Things look promising, I drive past a place sometimes that has agility obstacles set up so I went to see what they did, it turns out she is a BC rescue and is happy to take him on, if the owners agree, she is very committed and willing to help so it could be for the best, I didn't want him to go back as that is not helpful for him, I think he will be much better with other dogs around and she does not let them go unless the home is right.

I could put in more effort but he can see horses and cattle from almost anywhere outside so it is hard to get much focus, even inside he tends to wander off rather than stay nearby losing interest very quickly.

If this is the place I think it is, she has a good rep.

I so wish Jo’s owner hadn’t changed her mind last year. He would have been the perfect dog for you ? xx

 

[be positive]

They all sound like typical behaviours for a collie with no job to do, at three years old most of these will be ingrained, but your update sounds very positive
I generally think if you are having second thoughts there is usually a good reason and having a dog you don't gel with isn't good for/fair on the dog, they know!!

That is how I feel, he is lovely but just too many issues that should have been addressed, or not developed in the early days, I can deal with some but don't feel it fair to get a few months down the line and then end up with him being crated and tied up apart from a few runs each day, a dog living here should be free range all day to get the best life.

 

[be positive]

If this is the place I think it is, she has a good rep.

I so wish Jo’s owner hadn’t changed her mind last year. He would have been the perfect dog for you ? xx

Probably, she is on the main road so easy to see, I was going to pm but have been a bit busy, Sue had second thoughts and this was in need so he arrived rather quickly.

 

[AmyMay]

Probably, she is on the main road so easy to see, I was going to pm but have been a bit busy, Sue had second thoughts and this was in need so he arrived rather quickly.

Yes, S contacted me the other day regarding J.

one will come along (even maybe from the rescue. I know they had a red and white one returned to them that was fabulous, but not good around the grandkids).

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Fingers crossed for that his owners agree with you, and lets the Border Collie rescue lady with the agility fences have him. She sounds as if she'll be able to provide just what he needs here and now, and when that day come, likely to find him an owner that suits his future needs.

To me it sounds as if he's had 3 years of training his problem behaviours, and unlike in a movie I've seen, you can't make him listen to you simply by moving him out to a home in the countryside, and letting go of your inner anger.

I'm sure you could give him more time, but you would probably need to swap some of your horses, and cows, to agility fences, and maybe rebuild your house, if he should stay permanently.

 

[be positive]

Yes, Sue contacted me the other day regarding Jigsaw.

one will come along (even maybe from the rescue. I know they had a red and white one returned to them that was fabulous, but not good around the grandkids).

They have agreed it is for the best, rescue lady meeting him in the morning and is happy to let me have one, or two, that will fit in better so everyone wins, she is also in need of foster homes at times so I may have plenty to keep me busy I am not in a rush so if J is in need of somewhere in the next few weeks we can always try her as planned before, she is reasonably well socialised apart from issues with small dogs and on walks, much less reactive in general, she made herself at home much more quickly than he did while she visited.

 

[{97702}]

Well this proves Millie lurcher is definitely a collie cross even if she doesn’t look like it - I read this and thought ‘yep, got all of those, not unusual surely?’ ?

I wonder how many far more sane and sensible people would have bounced her back if she hadn’t come to me ???

 

[be positive]

Well this proves Millie lurcher is definitely a collie cross even if she doesn’t look like it - I read this and thought ‘yep, got all of those, not unusual surely?’ ?

I wonder how many far more sane and sensible people would have bounced her back if she hadn’t come to me ???

I thought of you today, rescue lady had a lovely lurcher pup that had been in 4 homes since going to live in a flat aged 6 weeks, I think he will be staying with her but if you need another he is rather special, in a good way, and totally devoted to his owner, not suited to my home otherwise I would be tempted

 

[AmyMay]

I thought of you today, rescue lady had a lovely lurcher pup that had been in 4 homes since going to live in a flat aged 6 weeks, I think he will be staying with her but if you need another he is rather special, in a good way, and totally devoted to his owner, not suited to my home otherwise I would be tempted

Can you pm me the rescue details, I know someone looking for a lurcher ?

 

[{97702}]

Can you pm me the rescue details, I know someone looking for a lurcher ?

I have one too that I’m trying to give away? She is only slightly psychotic ?

 

[AmyMay]

I have one too that I’m trying to give away? She is only slightly psychotic ?

???

 

[{97702}]

???

Actually in fairness since we have started scent work I no longer wish to give her away because she is totally BRILLIANT at it ? It was just a matter of finding her ‘thing’ ?

 

[Goldenstar]

I have one too that I’m trying to give away? She is only slightly psychotic ?

or they might take mine I fancy a sit on the sofa for a change .

 

[TheresaW]

I am not an expert in way shape or form, but just want to add my experience. We got Bo in Feb 2019 as a 4yo. He’d spent his earlier years working sheep, but didn’t cope, then spent 2 years in a kennel in a garden. We wanted a pet and a companion for our other dog who wouldn’t have coped on her own when we lost our old BC. He has fab recall (thankfully), but hated being walked on lead. Would attack Luna walking down the road, scream and yell, not ideal at 5 am. Couldn’t be loose around the horses as his working instinct ruled and too much risk of him getting kicked whilst nipping at heels. Lots and lots of work and patience, he will meet horses out and about, and come to me when called, but still can’t be around mine in field. Last week, I took him and Luna for a lead walk one morning. It was pitch dark and peeing down and I didn’t fancy the local woods we normally drive to. We had a nice walk, and he was happy, but it’s taken 18 months to get this far. I did use a flexi lead, so he thought he was loose, and had Luna on my belt lead so had hands free if needed to grab him.

Not sure what I’m trying to say really. When we got Luna (husky) everyone said they’re not like a normal dog. What is normal? She is hard in some ways, great around the horses, gets her off lead time (fully enclosed field), but daren’t let her off elsewhere as prey drive so high. He’s so different in so many other ways. What is a “normal dog”?

 

[AmyMay]

And on the flip side T W, I walk a ‘failed’ 3 year old working BC who is just about perfect - they are out there.

 

[TheresaW]

And on the flip side T W, I walk a ‘failed’ 3 year old working BC who is just about perfect - they are out there.

From what we know, he was fine with less than around 10 sheep, but more than that and he would lose the plot and just run over them. We’ve learnt to work around him, and not push him, and we love him to bits. They are great dogs, and although not a breed I’d ever really considered, since we had Aled, and now Bo, would have another in a shot.

 

[be positive]

Can you pm me the rescue details, I know someone looking for a lurcher ?

Sent, I have no idea if he is available but he was lovely

 

[be positive]

From what we know, he was fine with less than around 10 sheep, but more than that and he would lose the plot and just run over them. We’ve learnt to work around him, and not push him, and we love him to bits. They are great dogs, and although not a breed I’d ever really considered, since we had Aled, and now Bo, would have another in a shot.

Just like horses they are rarely perfect or normal, it is deciding what you can work with or cope with, the BC's I have had were all busy mentally and physically, quick to learn, mainly good things because they were young but in the wrong home their brightness could have quickly become uncontrollable, the one I lost last year did once go across a stream onto the neighbouring land to 'visit' the sheep, she was rescued from a very cross flock of very confident ewes who had her pinned up against the fence with nowhere to go, she was terrified and never left home again without permission, lesson learned with no harm done, the sheep had never been worked by dog so had no fear of a tiny 6 month old collie, their owner was not concerned when I apologised.

 

[AmyMay]

They are great dogs, and although not a breed I’d ever really considered, since we had Aled, and now Bo, would have another in a shot.

I would absolutely love one.

 

[TheresaW]

I would absolutely love one.

Honestly, I would take another in a shot. We aren’t a working home, but we do have the time, space and energy to work with them and keep them busy. My field (4 and a bit acres) is split into 3 paddocks. Am now at the point I can keep horses in one paddock and bo can be off lead if they are in another.