Have I made a mistake?

OP without naming the dealer - can you say what area it is in as although its a familiar story across the country - yours sounds VERY familiar ;)

I also bought another horse from a dealer in Summer 2011. I had some problems with him being nappy when I got him home but not enough to warrant me giving up on him. However he really was a pig and would go vertical out on hacks and going into the ring. I found out a few weeks later that I was pregnant and he had just had me off as well!! Thankfully I was fine and so was the baby but I didnt ride him again. I spoke to the dealer who took him back and sold him on my behalf. I spoke to the people who bought him and was totally honest with them and said that in company he was fine but leaving other horses and hacking alone he was nappy. I considered turning him away but frankly, you have to ask yourself what kind of horse you are going to want and need after you have had the baby and with a young child around. I would suggest you consider this very carefully ;) I actually bought a pony from a friend a few weeks later that I had been hacking out with her.. if you'd asked me was she my type a few years back Id have said no way. However I knew I was going to need something easy to do and reliable to handle with no vices. She fitted the bill and I actually rode her up to a couple of weeks before i had my baby!! She is definitely my horse of a lifetime:D
 
Firstly, congratulations on your pregnancy:)

I would certainly have someone experienced assess her for you. It does sound as though she is trying you out and succeeding but as you haven't owned her long you need to find out now that this is the case, not some other underlying problem. If there is any other reason then finding that out next year is too late.

Be careful with the lunging. Fine for schooling purposes but the last thing you need is a 'fit' bolshy mare.

Where are you? There may be someone on here local to you that could be of more help or recommend the right person to contact.
 
I think the way I would go is vet check, tack check. If they both are fine then ask a very experienced instructor to come to your yard and go through your routine with her and see how she behaves for someone else.
If a more experienced person can have her behaving (obviously without being rough with her) then it would suggest that there is a serious issue that is going to take a lot of work but if she behaves herself then it suggests that it's more a case of her taking advantage and being a madam. Knowing which it is will help you work out a way forward with her.
 
Spring Feather said:
I have to admit that although my horses are all *nearly* perfect with me handling them, if a novice person were to handle them it would probably take them all of one nanosecond to start taking advantage. You aren't getting anywhere at the moment probably because you are pregnant and are protecting your baby above and beyond, so I'd either turn the horse away until after the baby is born or have it on a yard where it can be ridden regularly.
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I agree. It doesn't take long at all for a horse to size someone up and start taking advantage. As a starting point I'd leave her tied up til she stood still myself (obviously with in reason!).
 
Sorry to hear about your predicament :(
One thing I would say is think long and hard about whether you want this mare - do you really like her, do you feel that you could trust her again? Only reason I ask is because it may be a long-haul with her. One of my mares knew I was pregnant loooooooong before I did - her behaviour said it all. She has never exactly been a saint but suddenly turned into a complete baggage - rearing, bucking, kicking out, teeth back, swishing tail, turning her bum on me in the stable. After about 3 weeks I was getting to the end of my tether with her - every day jobs such as turnout was a nightmare. I then found out I was 6 weeks pregnant. Ended up getting a couple of friends to help me out with her, basic handling and lungeing and I stayed off the riding completely. Two weeks after baby arrived I had my moody but manageable mare back again. Think long and hard about how much you want her, whether anyone can help you with her and contingency plans for when you get nearer your due date. If you do, see if you can get some help with her, if you don't sell her on quickly, for her sake as much as yours.
 
I know you don't want to give up on her, but you really haven't made a commitment to her, you've only had her a very short time. Finding that you are pregnant so soon after buying her must have been a bit of a shock! I wonder if you realise how much time and energy a baby will be though? You are looking at at least a year from now until you are in any sort of position to get her into regular work, never mind the problem behaviour she's exhibiting for whatever reason.

I think I'd be very tempted to get the dealer to take her back and sell her on, have the baby, and let the dust settle, and re-assess when you feel it's appropriate. Treat this as a learning experience.

Whether I could actually DO what I just suggested is another matter - I'm a shocker for heart ruling head:o
 
Just reading your post I had to reply as have been in the same situation with my mare and in the end kept her and now have a lovely lady although she has her quirks.

Sounds like she is trying it on and if you have all the health checks done and she is ok I would start with ground work, rope circling, long reining etc and give her time then progress with riding.

I had a really positive instructor that restored my confidence and we set goals and aims but it took a good year for me to feel we had turned the corner.

I would also try and find out her history as in my mares case I was her 5th home in 6 months! I got her from a dealer and luckily the one address in her passport was her second Irish owner who I ended up ringing and having a lovely chat with but it gave me insight into her behaviour.

Good luck and trust your instincts as deep down you know what's right for you to do...
 
How old is horse and what has it actually done?

The horse will be unsettling moving yards and with anew owner.

Has she done anything really bad, dangerous etc
She just sounds like she needs calm but firm handling.
 
Thanks everyone, I really am taking on board what your all saying. She is only 5 and very green. I've never had this problem with a horse before and I think I am doubting myself, my ability and knowing what to do. She is a gem most of the time, she is very affectionate in the field, greets me at the gate etc but as soon as I tie her up she completely changes, a hay net doesn't work. I wonder if something has happened to her when she's been tied before, I have no way to find this out though as she has a brand new passport from the dealer. I have spoke to the vet who done her vetting and he says he thinks it may be her trying her luck and push me about. I have tried getting tough but have ran out of things to try. I think I just got a fright today when I found myself up against the wall with her stamping her back feet and swishing her tail. I do know a local trainer who I plan on speaking to tomorrow to see what she thinks. I don't want to give up on her though.
 
dallas said:
Thanks everyone, I really am taking on board what your all saying. She is only 5 and very green. I've never had this problem with a horse before and I think I am doubting myself, my ability and knowing what to do. She is a gem most of the time, she is very affectionate in the field, greets me at the gate etc but as soon as I tie her up she completely changes, a hay net doesn't work. I wonder if something has happened to her when she's been tied before, I have no way to find this out though as she has a brand new passport from the dealer. I have spoke to the vet who done her vetting and he says he thinks it may be her trying her luck and push me about. I have tried getting tough but have ran out of things to try. I think I just got a fright today when I found myself up against the wall with her stamping her back feet and swishing her tail. I do know a local trainer who I plan on speaking to tomorrow to see what she thinks. I don't want to give up on her though.
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chances are she isnt 5 at all ;)
 
Congrats on your pregnancy, I've just had my first and I found out I was pregnant two weeks after buying my two year old cob!

This horse sounds like too much for you at the mo, she could also be acting up to you being pregnant, my gelding became very quiet around me which was the opposite of his normal self.
I'd call the dealer and explain what she's been like, the dealer would probably be happy to exchange her but you may not get a refund as easy.
Also it depends how much money you want to spend on this horse, if you keep her buy some agnus castus (I think its called) from eBay for £9, it will help calm her down. Also magnesium oxide may help, its cheaper than buying made up pots of calmer.
I don't rate vets with back unless its something they specialise in, ask your vet to recommend a specialist.
Your probably find she's barley broken in and knew she had to behave herself with the dealer, I've seen that before.
 
undertheweather said:
Please don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way, I don't mean it in a horrible way at all. You're in a tricky situation with a new horse testing the boundries and being pregnant.

Irish cobs are actually very intelligent, especially mares. I let a novice deal with my cob for a few weeks and he started to do things because he could get away with them or they got him out of doing things he didn't want to do.

This mare has learned that by fidgeting she doesn't get tacked up and therefore doesn't get ridden. She's also learned that fidgeting at the mounting block means you don't get on.

She sounds young/very unsettled. It might be that she was not taught to tie up and you need to teach her this, hence the initial problems. I personally never give my horses time off to settle in, I like to deal with them as normal from day 1 so a routine is settled into, it could be pain but it could also just be her testing. She might have got away with this behaviour before where she looked menacing and didn't get worked.

The horse is backed, you don't need to send her away for rebacking - you would not have been able to ride her at the trial otherwise.

How old is she?

Edited to say, my boy started lying down when he saw tack, he'd run back into his stable with the rider on top when she got on. It took a few days of confident handling to stop him from doing this.
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Nothing to add as all my ideas have been put forward but just wanted to say what a lovely reply, undertheweather, kind and helpful :D
 
Adopter said:
So sorry to read of your distress. Please do not put yourself at risk again.

When you feel better, try to work out a plan of action and what order you want to go.

Ask yourself do you want this horse, if not get in touch with dealer and see what you can arrange, I have known dealers swop horses for people when the first does not suit, and it has worked out.

If you want to keep the horse, then do the vet, physio etc. checks and get someone to give her some training rather than risk yourself.
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^^^ this

I bought a mare from a dealer before I got Stanley. She was fine to ride and I stupidly didn't really think past that when I decided to buy her, but to handle she was really difficult. She was bargy, she threatened to bite all the time, she tried to double barrel me everytime I turned her out and she would rear when I tried to lead her anywhere in hand. Made me so miserable. I called dealer for some advice/ to ask if she had been that way at thier yard and he offered to swap her for me..... and that's how I found Stanley:) I should add though that they did state that they would offer an exchange in the 1st 12 weeks if things weren't working out when I first bought the mare. It may be worth asking your dealer if they have the same or a similar policy. Good luck.
 
Have only read first post so please ignore any questions you've already answered.

Firstly if you had a vetting and blood was drawn I'd be getting it tested for bute and sedatives.

Secondly I'd get this horse's back and teeth looked at by professionals (ie vet, dentist, physio/chiro) and also get a qualified saddle fitter to re-check the fit of the saddle. How long since it was fitted and has horse changed shape at all and was the person who checked it in the first place qualified to do so. I'd also look at whether her bit is an appropriate size and shape for her mouth and if it is rubbing.

If you manage to rule all that out as being fine or find problems and sort them out then it's time to look at your relationship with this horse on the ground. This horse has had a lot of upheaval and moving about in a short space of time, which is bound to be stressful and make her question what the rules and boundaries are. It may take months for her to calm down and settle. In the meantime you need to be very clear about what behaviour you will and won't put up with. This does not mean bullying or being horrible but it does mean being firm and consistent to avoid her walking all over you. If she throws you a problem then you need to be ready with a solution ie if she won't stand to be brushed then tie her and if she won't be tied then either have someone holding the leadrope and correcting her or do it yourself and have groundwork sessions focused purely on standing still and moving over when asked.

Sounds to me like a mixture of horse feeling insecure due to moving about a bit, possible bad experiences with poorly fitted tack either now or in the past and you not being as firm / assertive as you maybe need to be with her and maybe letting her get away with little things that are now building into bigger things however obviously you can't put yourself and your baby at risk so if her behavior is scaring you and you feel you lack either the ability or the support from other people to be able to deal with her then I'd recommend contacting dealer to see what options they'll give you.
 
really sorry to hear your situation, very sad and i really really really hope you get it sorted.
Shame not every horse had an owner as dedicated, sensible and as down to earth as you..probably wouldnt be as many problem horses being sold on to very novice riders.
 
In your situation i'd probably sell the horse as soon as I could.

You're pregnant, upset and stressed. It also sounds like you're getting into some dangerous situations with this horse. I don't see the point in turning a young horse away at 5 years old, things might be the same or worse in October when you'll have a babe in arms, less time, strength and money plus the clocks will be going back then so less daylight too.

Stop beating yourself up, let this horse go to someone with time and experience to get her on the straight and narrow and keep her there!

You can always try the dealer and see if they'll help you out but don't allow yourself to get stressed and upset, just get yourself out of the situation for the sake of your baby, horse and self :)
 
amymay said:
Have you had a good instructor to assess the horse? It may be nothing more than it's taking the mickey and you needing to crack on like you mean business
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This ^^^

Is she your first horse? I'm afraid I wouldn't stand for bad behaviour like that, it's just not on and will get worse if you don't get it sorted now. Maybe you need to toughen up with her and not let her get away with her naughtyness? She needs to learn to respect you and your space too. Have you got an experienced friend that could start the process off?

Keep safe though and don't get into any arguments that may cause you any injuries. Baby is far more important (as you know!).
 
Sorry, not read all of the posts above, send it back. You are pregnant and will have even less time to deal with it when you have a baby to cope with. Be prepared for the dealer to say you're sending it back because you are pregnant (or don't tell him). I'm sorry but there are lots of nice horses out there without having to deal with that - plus he's had your money, thank you very much!
 
Could you afford to pay for a Recommended Associate to come (from the Intelligent Horsemanship "stable") and show you how to handle her safely. Sometimes it is all about body positioning and attitude. :)
 
OP, where did you get her from? I am sorry to say this, but not all dealers are the best people to deal with!! PM me if you would prefer.There are many people that have been in the same boat as you. hugs.
 
Quick update. Went to turn her out this morning, She was good as gold, stood lovely while I put her rug and head collar on and walked nicely up to the field. I made sure I praised her and the one time she did step forward when I had told her to stand I firmly said 'no' and nudged her back.

I then went and spoke to the trainer that I know. I've arranged for the vet to check her over this weekend and the farrier to come and check her feet. I told the trainer everything and she agreed with the majority of what your all saying, she's pushing it and seeing what she an get away with. She said I should tie her up and leave her for an hour while mucking out or something and keep doing this until she stands still. She said I can't let her push me about and I have to toughen up.

I feel a lot better and more positive today about everything. Thank you or all your constructive criticism and advice. This is my third horse (second Irish cob, first one was a gem) so I should really be more confident and authoritative but like you all say it may have something to do with being pregnant and nervous as this transferring to the horse. I'll keep you all updated. Any further advice is gratefully accepted!
 
Well done! They don't like being the leader generally so will be much happier and more settled if you are.
Congratulations too on the small to be.
 
well done you for working on with her. However I don't mean to be disrespectful or unkind - I was the first to insist I carried on when I was pregnant however there is a huge difference in carrying on working with and riding a trusted horse with whom you have an established relationship, to working with something new, unknown and already proving difficult. Im sorry to say it but you are taking too much of a risk imho. Please think carefully, if something happens I guarantee you will never forgive yourself.
 
Lovely that you sound more positive, she does sound a nice mare, and if you can get some extra help when you need it sounds a good way forward.

At some point do look ahead and consider how demanding a small baby is and how tired you will get when you are having disturbed nights, you may want to reconsider how you can manage her on DIY next winter.

Lots for you to look forward to, hope pregnancy goes well
 
Something to bear in mind is - everytime you handle your horse or have anything to do with them, you are training them. As you have found out, often a "naughty" horse is an uncertain horse that is looking for the rules.

Someone at a dealer's yard is not going to stand any nonsense from a horse, and they sense this and generally behave, unless there is something so wrong physically that makes them react. I had friends who were dealers and had a lifetime with horses. They would sometimes be called up on to help with naughty horses, and usually had no problems at all because of their positive attitude and the horse immediatey behaved.

Still, I tend to agree that this horse might not be a good idea while you are expecting a baby. You need to be able to trust your horse if riding while expecting. Good luck, though, things are certainly improving.
 
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