Have I ran out of options for my dog?

L

littlen

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2006
Messages
830
Visit site
I'm not sure if there's any advice that can be given as I've had it all but it helps to have a range of opinions sometimes.

I have a much loved dog, GSD with perhaps some maliniois or other type in her. She had a bad start in life but I have worked very hard with her.
I've had her since a (too) young puppy. She's been to training classes since 8 weeks old. She's done kennel club classes, agility, socialisation classes, fun dog shows all under the guidance of a qualified trainer...I honestly tried my best to make her into a well rounded individual. I followed all of the socialisation rules to the letter.

She started showing signs of nervous aggression from a young age (12 weeks maybe) outside of the home and with strangers. She would hide and cower behind me when anyone passed. She has never had an interest in interacting with anyone outside of family.

A typical example of her walks are barking from the moment the door opens until we walk back, lunging/snarling/growling/barking at every human/dog/cyclist she sees until we get back. She's a large dog at somewhere around 30kg so it's not fun at all.

I tried to nip it in the bud and consulted a positive veterinary behaviourist from 6 months old. We did BAT therapy which did work to a point but she stalled and hasn't improved much since those initial few months. I've got to the point where I can ask for sit and allow the stranger to pass at a distance but she can not get closer without a meltdown. I have been refered to one of the top behaviourist in the UK who thinks she will always be terrified of life. I've joined dog walk groups and Facebook groups but nothing helps.

She has never bitten or tried to bite but 'air' snaps. She will chase however given the chance.

She has effected my other dog who has become more grumpy and withdrawn when walking. She lunges at him when he plays as she is frustrated she isn't allowed off lead to play with him. I can't excersise her enough as I can't let her off lead or she intimidates people.

I can't walk anywhere except the same route at silly times. I can't go to the beach or woods or for a picnic. I can't go on holiday or leave her with anyone as she wouldn't cope.

On the other hand, she is the sweetest most loyal dog at home. She spends most of her day asleep and is incredibly gentle. She plays with her toys and runs around the garden like a mad thing. She's not all bad, when she's in her comfort zone she's so happy.

I've got to the point where I'm considering euthanasia as I can't see any other way forward. I don't want another behaviourist as they all say the same. I don't want to try more medication as it never works. I've given up with training her, I've trained this dog more than any dog I know and once she's triggered it goes out of the window. I just want to walk like a normal person without the stares, whispers and people tutting and crossing the road. People judge me as if I have let her do this for fun or as some sort of status but that isn't the case.

I don't feel she's a danger to anyone so that's not a concern of mine. She's muzzled and walked in a dogmatic and harness- pretty much 0 chance of escaping or anything like that. My house is like Fort Knox. It's more a quality of life issue that is keeping me up at night.

But how do I go ahead with this and live with myself? I've gone round in circles for months and months but cant bring myself to do what probably needs to be done?
She's only 2. The whole thing seems so final. Is there something I've missed that I can do?

I don't think I can physically do it. My husband is against euthanisaia as she hasn't done anything (he means she hasn't hurt anyone!) which makes it harder but he's away Monday to Friday so isn't the one struggling.
 
Do you have to walk the 2 dogs together? It sounds as if you would all get more enjoyment from the dogs being walked separately?

Is there anywhere local where you could pay a fee to exercise her of the lead by herself, or is your garden big enough to exercise her in?

Except for when you walk her, does she seem happy with life? What is she like with visitors to your home?

I agree with you that quality of life must be paramount and if she doesn't have than pts is best.
 
Her problems are more than likely genetic and it sounds like you have tried your best.

As I've said previously, if she's happy at home and miserable and unhappy elsewhere, then don't subject her to it. Why would you do that to yourself and her?

Pretty much ALL dogs are lovely at home. It's when they are exposed to stress that you see the 'real' dog. And for some dogs 'stress' can be as little as simple exposure to the outside world.

If she were mine and I thought she was very unhappy mentally I would say PTS. If I had the capability to keep her home and keep her happy then I would do so.

However it sounds like you are both incredibly stressed and that isn't sustainable long term.

No one can validate your decision for you, but best of luck with whatever you decide.
 
Last edited:
Pearlsasinger said:
Do you have to walk the 2 dogs together? It sounds as if you would all get more enjoyment from the dogs being walked separately?

Is there anywhere local where you could pay a fee to exercise her of the lead by herself, or is your garden big enough to exercise her in?

Except for when you walk her, does she seem happy with life? What is she like with visitors to your home?

I agree with you that quality of life must be paramount and if she doesn't have than pts is best.
Click to expand...


I had a dog who simply didn't want to go anywhere. She would try to run home if you let her off the lead halfway up a mountain. She would run back to her kennel (to then run in circles) from a field next to the house. In the house, she would never settle and did circuits of the living room. The only time I ever saw her lying down or relaxed was in a crate.
She wasn't interested in applying herself to any sort of training as she had no focus at all.
The world was just too big for her.
 
Thanks both of you.

I have a young child (who she adores) but find it hard to get them out seperately due to a lack of time. My routine is walk, drop off at childcare, horses, work and repeat.
As I said my husband isn't here so squeezing in two walks per dog isn't always possible.
I do try and take them out individually a few times a week mainly to give my other dog a break!
If I do take my other dog she is happy to wait in her crate as long as she's been out first.

I can't decide what her quality of life is like I think that's the problem. At home she is happy, but I can't keep a german shepherd type as a house dog can I? Isn't that cruel?
My garden isn't huge sadly but she enjoys running laps of it and digging holes everywhere :)

I feel stressed every time she leaves the house. Annoyingly though she wants to come out and I feel awful leaving her behind. She sees the lead and starts the whining and running to the door as if she's desperate to go, tail wagging and full of excitement. It's as soon as she sees something scary that she switches. If she could walk and not see anyone I have no doubt she wouldn't be a problem. She is obedient, comes back, loves splashing about and picking up sticks and chasing flies around. The dogs love playing and chasing eachother and seem so happy playing until something scares her. I don't know if I can take that away from her realistically?

I can't find anywhere secure and dog free in my area. I did find some dog walking fields but most of them are full of dogs surrounding them which would be no good at all.
 
Keeping her at home is no crueller than repeatedly exposing her to things she finds terrifying. Not all dogs fit into our human ideal of walks on the beach, playing nicely with others. It's the square peg/round hole issue again.

You could maybe set up some agility equipment for her or do tracking or something.
 
Thankyou.

I probably do put human emotions on her a bit. For example when she can't come on family days out etc I feel bad about leaving her alone but then again she wouldn't cope.

I could probably get her to her 'safe' space a couple of times a week rather than on the walk she finds difficult daily. It would mean days without a walk though. Maybe she would just get used to it once the two walks a day routine was forgotten about.
 
You are definitely thinking like a human and not a dog - we all do it!

My dog is on a bit of a go slow at the moment for various reasons (see hugely elevated forum post count lol) and I'm staggered at how well he has adapted. You'd be surprised.
 
I don't think it's cruel, it's not necessarily ideal and not what we are 'used to' here but if it saves her all that distress I don't see why not, at least for a bit and see how she gets on with home exercise/stuff for a mind and the odd trip to a safe space. If that doesn't work reconsider the PTS but if she can be happy enough mooching about at home I don't realy see the problem.
 
I dont think the option of keeping her in her safe space is cruel either fwiw seeing as you have a bit of space. I also wouldnt blame you for the PTS option but a very tough decision with a healthy dog.

there is a website that advertises dog-safe fields you can hire if you've not seen that? a couple of local doggy daycare places near me rent their fields outwith of daycare hours so there might be something similar? There's also something called Wag It Games which are a mix of scentwork/obedience/obstacles/watergames etc etc that you can set up really cheaply in your back garden or living room to give her some stimulation.
 
I had not seen the hire website but I will check it out.

She has been fine with dogs she knows are 'friends' but I would never trust her with a strange person or dog. The hire place I saw was a field surrounded by kennels full of barking dogs. She wouldn't have liked that at all. I will look for it now!

I'll also look at the games thank you!
 
Hmm, your dog seems to be really happy to go for walks, if only she didn't have to see humans/dogs.
I don't know if that exists, but perhaps there are something like blinkers or an opaque fly mask for dogs? Although GSDs have a great sense of smell and hearing of course, but perhaps it's seeing the other dogs/humans that stresses her out?
It may not at all work, but perhaps it's worth trying if you are running out of options.
 
I would just see how she gets on without any walks for a while. There is loads you can do at home - look into scentwork for a start which could easily transfer to outside walks in the future to help keep her calm then as well. Talking Dogs Scentwork is great if there is a course near you, all of the instructors will happily accommodate a stressy dog and she can attend courses without ever seeing another dog if needs be.
It is easy to set stuff up at home, and just spend 20-30mins a day doing stuff with her instead of going out. Things like providing all meals in toys will help, and scattering dry food over the garden to sniff out when you are short of time too.
My boy used to need 2 weeks more or less house arrest after going away at the weekend, it raised his adrenalin so high it took a long time to come back down and let him cope again. Over the years we have done less and less but he is happier and happier.
Any dog can be a house dog if you make appropriate changes. It would be good if you have a very short walk you could do each day, just 10mins or so, so that she can get out a little but there are loads of dogs who live happily with no outside life even without the effort put in to make it better for them.
You've got nothing to lose except your dog, just try it and see how she copes - if she likes it, then problem sorted. If not, you still have PTS to fall back on.
 
20 mins scent work tires mine out as much as a good 40min walk. Its really easy to do at home as well, not time consuming, doesnt really cost anything and so easy to teach!
 
I dont have a dog and never done it, but what about swimming lessons (for dogs) or a treadmill at home if you have space (ive seen that on the telly!)
 
Friend has a dog who is V anxious she has tried everything with behaviourists, she currently has been prescribed Prozac for the dog, apparently to try to make dog more receptive to training, it's not expensive as drugs are human, i think it costs her £16 a month but it is a small border terrier.

Another option would be to try and rehome with someone who has their own yard or farm. I have my own yard and secure gate so dog wouldn't need to see any human or other dog in my situation. Unfortunately I cannot take on another one but this was to demonstrate the right home may be there if you think that is an option.
 
Last edited:
Other option is to walk v late at night in dark as less likely to be people/dogs out... but understand this may not be practical!
 
Thankyou to everyone.

I will look into all of the suggestions. Perhaps less is more with her?

There's a walk I can do where she sees minimal people and she can cope with this one. Maybe one or two meltdowns rather than 12!

I probably wouldn't rehome her. I know her inside out and honestly think to take her out of her safety bubble and away from me would be catastrophic for her.

A treadmill may be an idea!
 
My BC is a bit like this, Not the aggressive part but she simply doesn't want to go anywhere and never has done. That is fine we don't do stuff that normal dogs would like to do. She hates going for a walk. She could go off lead around our roads and play but hates it. She doesn't like playing with toys and never has done. She is happiest sitting under the kitchen table or in the garden, loves her treats/chews. She likes to be let out in the morning for an hour to wander around our wood on her own. She loves coming out in the landrover but she wouldn't like to get out anywhere strange. She loves best of all running around the tractor and then lying in the leat getting soaking wet. (she doesn't get that very often as she is a PITA near the wheels) That is the total of her life for the last 12 years. She seems perfectly happy with that. I'm sure a BC should be doing lots of things like training classes, walks out on a lead etc or even coming out riding but she is happy with her very limited life as a house and garden dog. She sees no reason to have any outside life away from her home. If dog is satisfied with this sort of limited lifestyle I don't see it is a problem for them.

Can you just let your girl be a happy housedog OP? If she cannot cope with that then perhaps you may need to end it but there is nothing to say a dog has to do stuff and go out.
 
It just feels a bit wrong as it's pretty much unheard of. People are quick to call owners who don't walk dogs especially ones with plenty of energy!

I think I'm going to start a new routine of just doing the minimum walk wise and see if she's happy with that.

Some days I don't walk them and they aren't that bothered, but she does get silly when the other dog is going out as she hates being left behind. This could be the challenge more than anything.
 
You really need to rewire your thinking on this.
Who cares what others think. It's your dog and she has some pretty big issues. Look out for her and her needs.
No offence but you seem to be valuing your idea of a perfect doggy life over her extreme stress and upset at the things that trigger her.

If you give her something amazing and yummy or make it her to routine that she eats when the other one goes out, she'll soon see it as a positive. My dog used to love it when my hairdryer turned off just before I went to work as he knew it was breakfast time. Not 'oh no, she's leaving'.
 
CC you are right.

A lot of the problems I've had are with people's perceptions of her/me. I hate the stares, tuts and way people say things like "she clearly hasn't trained that dog" or whatever. I hate the fact she lets the breed down, she scares people and conforms to everything I didn't want her to be.

I didn't imagine a dog like this. I imagined wandering along the beach drinking coffee and hacking out with the dogs beside me as we always had done with my other dog. I feel like she has taken this from me in a way although I understand it's not her fault. I love her to pieces but she has sucked any enjoyment I had from owning a dog away and turned it into stress and worry.

Saying that, I do want what's best for her and I will do whatever I can to make her life easier. If she wants to be a house dog then I will try and get my head around that :)
 
I do understand, been in a slightly similar situation myself. See how it goes for a while and if you need to make the call then I can't see how anyone would judge you.
 
We had a lovely young dog who behaved like that. He loved his walks and "his" people but he just couldn't cope with the rest of the world - nor it with him as, like your dog, he was big and he presented as fierce. The issues began very early on and nothing worked. We tried walking him at odd hours to avoid meeting anyone, but then he took to fearing random birds and trees. On one occasion, he kicked off at a large boulder. I am not joking - it was a horrible state of mind to witness. Like a switch flicked and something else took over behind his eyes. Ultimately, we had to ask our vet to let him go aged eighteen months. I'm sad to say that if I had my time again, I would have taken the decision far sooner :(
 
You sound so similar to my situation. My lad is smaller than yours, looks so cute, everyone admires him, until he kicks off ! We have been through many different behavioural medication combinations and have come to the conclusion that he is brain damaged in some way, as no amount of desensitisation training has helped him significantly. I like you I have had enough of trying with the training and I just give him as good a life as I can. I do worry about his quality of life, but at the same time, he gets 3 walks a day on our stud, I just have to seriously manage him around people and other dogs, I have run out of friends who will look after him and one day we will call it a day.

I would really investigate finding a secure field for your lad to run in a couple of times a week. For my own sanity, it is great to walk my lad somewhere where he is secure and can have a run, it helps make up for all the times he is left in the car, whilst my other dog does other things. Also look into scentwork both outside and in your house, brain games to mentally wear him out.
 
littlen said:
Thankyou to everyone.

I will look into all of the suggestions. Perhaps less is more with her?

There's a walk I can do where she sees minimal people and she can cope with this one. Maybe one or two meltdowns rather than 12!
Click to expand...
Less is definitely more for my boy - it took me several years to realise it, but these days he is so happy. It isn't easy to end up with a dog who isn't what you thought you wanted, but they give so much back that it is still worth it. But life for us became so much easier and happier when I stopped trying to make him into a dog he was never going to be - all the training meant he CAN cope with a lot, but it takes it out of both us so why do it? These days he only "meets" dogs he knows and likes, people he knows and likes or I know will listen to his requirements, walks where he is comfortable, and we have days where we just stay close to home after stressful events, just to chill together.
Look up http://talkingdogsscentwork.co.uk/Talking_Dogs_Scentwork/Welcome.html for another option, they really are a lovely group of people and so incredibly accommodating to antisocial dogs. The only place I've ever been where people actively stop and go out of our way more than they really need to in order to make sure my dog has as good a day as theirs.
 
I haven't read other responses but I have a dog who has never enjoyed going for walks.

He is a rescue from a breeder and never came out his cage so the big wide world was uber scary.

He was really stressed and sounded like a steam train outside the home with stress which was embarrassing as people thought I'd walked him into the ground.

The truth of the matter is that he is just a complete homebody. I don't take him out now , he mooches around the garden and paddocks and we are both far less stressed.

My thoughts are if she is happy in the home just let her be don't force the issue.
If she was a person with agoraphobia you wouldn't drag them out would you
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top