Have stirrup bar positions changed over the years?

Orchardbeck

Orchardbeck

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I'm talking about GPs. Reason I ask I that i've ridden in a wintec in the past, and felt they were too far forward; thorowgoods put my legs further back which I thought was good at the time, but my new saddle (new to us anyway) has them placed slightly more forwards, but my horse seems to react to my leg better - its an Ideal from around 1997.

Is there a trend to move them back now, or do particular brands favour certain positions? Just interested to know!
 
Stirrup bar position is normaly dictated by the tree. A bigger saddle will tend to have stirrup bars positioned further forward from the normal sitting position .This is fine if you need a bigger saddle because you are tall but absolutely useless if you need a bigger saddle to spread weight ,as a lot of us do.So many riding problems are down to incorrect stirrup bar positioning. No matter how hard you try, if the stirrup bar position is wrong for your height and foot length ,you will not sit correctly.
 
Mike007 said:
So many riding problems are down to incorrect stirrup bar positioning. No matter how hard you try, if the stirrup bar position is wrong for your height and foot length ,you will not sit correctly.
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Completely agree with this, so why oh why do hardly any saddles have adjustable stirrup bars?
 
It would make sense, wouldn't it? Maybe we've hit on the new gimmick for saddles, like changeable gullets?!!!
 
I have a lot of problems with one horse I ride as the stirrups are very far forward so it's difficult to keep my lower leg steady and get my balance right in rising trot. I'm very new to riding but I've wondered this too, why can't the stirrup bar be more adjustable. If I rise with the stirrup leathers vertical I'd have a very uncomfortable landing..:eek: don't know what make of saddle for sure but I think it might be an Ideal.
 
I've heard of the Wellep bars, a quick google also suggests L&R have a very similar adjustment system - also seem to recall years ago, seeing a synthetic saddle with a long stirrup bar with 3 'dips' for want of a better word, to allow the stirrup leather to sit in different positions. So I guess there are a few variations.

But, does anyone know if it's possible to get a saddle customised with these adjustable bars, or if you are limited as to choice?
 
Wrongly positioned stirrup-bars is one of the primary causes of poor position in the rider, as if they are too far forward it is virtually impossible to get the desired ear/shoulder/hip/heel alignment.
 
Spanish Eyes said:
Wrongly positioned stirrup-bars is one of the primary causes of poor position in the rider, as if they are too far forward it is virtually impossible to get the desired ear/shoulder/hip/heel alignment.
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As if learning to ride isn't hard enough! I love riding but it takes me ages to get myself balanced and I know that I'm only achieving this at a cost to something else..probably leaning forward to compensate. No problem on same horse once stirrups are removed.
 
That's one of the reasons I went to the heather Moffett saddles, the stirrup bars are set further back to put you in the correct position, ths majority of saddles on the market have the bars set too far forward which hinders the riders position which in turn has a negative effect on the horses way of going.
Lots of instructors focus on the horse but if they looked at the saddle and the riders position because of it the horse would probably improve anyway.
 
I must be a weird shape! I like old saddles because I find they have the stirrup bars set a little further forwards and smaller knee rolls. Most modern GPs seem to have stirrup bars set back more for dressage and large knee rolls with straighter cut saddle flaps. I can't jump in them. I can jump in my old dressage saddle though!
 
How very strange that some saddlers should persist in making saddles that don't actually allow the rider to sit correctly. I looked this up earlier and found some guidelines about saddle size and thigh length. My thigh bone is quite long in relation to my height and lower leg so maybe this is also a factor. I'll certainly have this at the top of my check list when I eventually get my own horse. For now I'll keep on blaming the saddle :D:D
 
It goes the other way though - I had a dressage T6 that I had to get rid off as the bars set the stirrups to far back and it wasn't until I had a lesson with the saddle on a simulator and it was measuring weight distribution etc. and the instructor pointed out that I couldn't rise to trot without leaning too far forward when I had feet in stirrups, but without them managed to perfectly okay.

On my saddle, I have 2 settings, one back, one in 'normal' I have to ride in normal, my sharer has to have hers set back.

This is what happens when I have my stirrups on the back bar:
DSCF0384.jpg


And while not perfect alignment, as slouching, but when they are on the front bar:
DSCF0664.jpg
 
WOWs have a two position bar, but I would still prefer to be able to get the leather much further forwards to jump. But the "back" position is perfect for me for dressage and hacking.
 
Nugget la poneh - that's exactly what was happening to me when I rode in any of the Thorowgood saddles, but in the Ideal it feels more comfortable - but in my head it shouldn't as they are further forward. I guess its all a matter of preference!
 
Nugget la Poneh (interesting name btw!) your instructor should have been able to teach you to rise correctly with the stirrup bars in the 1st, more correct, position. The 2nd pic isnt correct as the forward set stirrup bar has pulled your leg forwards, so heels are no longer under hips and you arent centred.

The trouble is it takes 2000 CORRECT repetitions for muscles to learn a new position, for most people this is simply too much like hard work so they put their stirrups up and sit in a chair seat and continue to ride incorrectly.
 
TigerTail said:
Nugget la Poneh (interesting name btw!) your instructor should have been able to teach you to rise correctly with the stirrup bars in the 1st, more correct, position. The 2nd pic isnt correct as the forward set stirrup bar has pulled your leg forwards, so heels are no longer under hips and you arent centred.

The trouble is it takes 2000 CORRECT repetitions for muscles to learn a new position, for most people this is simply too much like hard work so they put their stirrups up and sit in a chair seat and continue to ride incorrectly.
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I had a lesson with Heather on my T6 dressage and she was very impressed with the stirrup bar placement. When I first got it I felt that it tipped my pelvis forward very slightly but that was probably from years of riding in saddles where I had to fight the stirrups to be in the correct position. I love it now and find that I sit in the correct position very easily.

In the second picture your heels are not directly underneath your hips so you aren't in the correct position.
 
Nugget - you should be inclining your shoulders slightly forwards in the rise part of the trot, this stops you from being left behind the movement and landing heavily on the horses back, it will feel like you're leaning too far forwards but probably won't look like it.
 
Tigertail & Rapid - see, this is where I am confused. I was always taught that the straightline runs through the ear, shoulders hip and back of heel, which would mean first pic is wrong, and second pic in only aout about an inch if that?
Maggies mum - I was leaning forwards like I had pooed myself in the lesson I was referring to :-D
 
Ah now this is because when you have risen in RT you have shot upwards, allowed your lower leg to go back, which has resulted in you looking like you are stood straight but on a line like one of these \

What you should have done is let the horse throw you up, keeping your lower leg wrapped round the horses sides so it is stable and now waving backwards, and aimed your hips towards the horses ears. You dont stand up down up down like so many riding schools teach at all. Your head should stay on a level plane if rising correctly :) Dont forget to slow your descent using your thigh muscles to land softly on the horses back.
 
dorito said:
Completely agree with this, so why oh why do hardly any saddles have adjustable stirrup bars?
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On the customer side, because they can be bulky and uncomfortable, and on the manufacturer side because they cost a lot more than a regular bar.

It's a complex issue and no-one talks about relative length of thigh and size of foot. I even wonder at the old ideas of alignment - men were the only dressage riders in the past, and their relatively short femurs allow them to sit more easily with their heel back under the hip, especially with relatively big feet (think about the stirrup leather needing to be vertical, and the fact it sits on the ball of the foot, yet we still are supposed to align the heel with the hip no matter our foot size). Women's knees will be naturally further forwards relative to their height - and their foot size is likely to be smaller - so actually they are less likely to need a really set back bar.

I think some modern saddles have gone too far - obviously it's not nice to be fighting the bar position but I think some hip problems etc are exacerbated by the bars being so far back on some saddles. If a saddle has a wide twist then it is even harder to deal with set back bars and very straight flaps!
 
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