Have the methods used to break in and train horses and ponies changed over the years?

[Phoebe1]

I would appreciate your thoughts/opinions to help me with part of a project I am doing for college - On how the breaking in and training of horses and ponies may changed over the years and whether anyone uses either the Monty Roberts natural horsemanship or Parelli ground work to break in and train their youngster or if they prefer to stick to traditional methods or if modern day training has become a mixture of both?

 

[Littlelegs]

I've been on Diy for the last 8 years & haven't ever worked on a pure breaking yard but I do think from what i've seen it has. I still practice the way I was brought up with. I consider the normal way to either back at 3 & turn away till 4, or break at 4, with groundwork & handling prior to breaking. Now it seems a lot more people are in a rush. Met more than one person who thinks to sit on, lunge & long rein a 2 year old is the norm, & not necessarily those types who sell on dragon driving. Years ago, a novicey owner would be told to send their horse away for breaking & schooling, there are many now who think provided join up is achieved they can do it at home with a round pen. Seems to me many people think why pay for weeks at a dedicated yard when you can get monty Roberts to sort it in 30 mins.

 

[Littlelegs]

Also forgot to add I think the whole body language stuff amongst others is something the old fashioned horse people do anyway, so you could say everyone does aspects of both.

 

[touchstone]

I start horses the same way as I've always done, by traditional methods. Traditional shouldn't mean harsh as some seem to assume, but a good horseman will have patience, a no-nonsense attitude and know when to stop for the day.

When horses are rushed and short cuts taken is when problems begin imho.

 

[PandorasJar]

I've a 3 year old that had a saddle on and lunged briefly at the end of last year (as a 3yo), turned away and now back to playing with her. I've almost got the bond I want, when panicked she calms herself out of it and always looks to me for reassurance, she listens to me incredibly well and is determined to try anything for me. However the number of people shocked that she isn't backed already is astounding!

I'll do it at our pace (last year was breakneck speed as she wanted to see everything, this year I expect to be much slower) not everyone elses. I'm not following strict Monty Roberts etc advice, but rather playing with us teaching each other what works. Every horse is an individual and no plan is sure set to work for everyone.

Some horses need telling to do something, some need asking, some need days, some years. As long as all do what you want when asked/told then it doesn't matter how you got there (within reason).

I think a lot of people see the 'ideal' and I've been guilty of it too, without remembering that horses are animals and that sometimes we have to work with them on a herd level than a human one. And sometimes we can't do the nicely nicely approach in a dangerous situation.

Sorry that's rambly and probably not a lot of help!

Pan

 

[Phoebe1]

No its not rambling! Really the more said and opinions given the more helpful as I want to consider from all angles. So thank you for replying. Do you think that the Monty Roberts technique or these so called modern methods are perhaps helping to make people relate to the fact that the horse is a herd animal? I always think of traditional as making the horse submit to the human. I just wonder if these so called modern methods have had a bearing on breaking/training as a whole?

 

[Phoebe1]

Thank you for that. I wonder how many people are sucessful in their outcome using Monty Roberts technique rather than traditional methods?

 

[Phoebe1]

Thank you for your reply. You break in horses and that is really helpful to know, and I hope you won't mind me asking more?
When you say traditional do you mean the usual, halter, biting, loose lunging, long reining, backing then ridden?
How long on average does it take you to achieve this?
Do you ever change your technique or timescale to suit a particular horse?

 

[millitiger]

I think you need to define what the 'traditional' method is first.

Monty Roberts isn't the first person to use join up or pressure and release and traditional doesn't = rough treatment.

I have only been involved with breaking for around 12 years. My methods are pretty much the same (lots of groundwork) but I'm not worried about using different bits here and there when appropriate- I like as many tools as possible in my tool box

 

[missfitz50]

I've a 3 year old that had a saddle on and lunged briefly at the end of last year (as a 3yo), turned away and now back to playing with her. I've almost got the bond I want, when panicked she calms herself out of it and always looks to me for reassurance, she listens to me incredibly well and is determined to try anything for me. However the number of people shocked that she isn't backed already is astounding!

I'll do it at our pace (last year was breakneck speed as she wanted to see everything, this year I expect to be much slower) not everyone elses. I'm not following strict Monty Roberts etc advice, but rather playing with us teaching each other what works. Every horse is an individual and no plan is sure set to work for everyone.

Some horses need telling to do something, some need asking, some need days, some years. As long as all do what you want when asked/told then it doesn't matter how you got there (within reason).

I think a lot of people see the 'ideal' and I've been guilty of it too, without remembering that horses are animals and that sometimes we have to work with them on a herd level than a human one. And sometimes we can't do the nicely nicely approach in a dangerous situation.

Sorry that's rambly and probably not a lot of help!

Pan

^^^ totally agree with Pandora......

I also have a young horse who I bought as a 3 year old, where I spent a year building up a bond and doing groundwork, was backed as a rising 5 then turned away for the winter. This year she's come back a totally different horse... she's completely ready to work and seems to have taken to being ridden again quite happily. I can do anything with her on the ground and she is very mannerly. The way I look at it is I'm not in any rush, I would rather take my time and make sure she is comfortable with each stage before going onto the next. I also know of youngsters that are broken in a rush only to suffer later on with back or leg problems.

 

[Miss L Toe]

I read a book once [!] and it was a light-bulb moment, the horse need to be handled for about 500 hours for it to be fully understanding of humans, so it matters little whether it gets handling as a youngster or as a three year old.
The mature farrier will tell you that he gets very few un-handled strong three or four year olds to shoe, they get much more handling, not many are left in a field for four yeas before being saddled up.
Some horse are naturally wary, so they miss out on early handling just because they stand back.
A kind native pony will usually accept all that is thrown at it, provided it is taken along a quiet route by a patient and experienced handler.
In Ye Olden Days the family groom would know body language and break in family ponies and horses when they were ready.

 

[Littlelegs]

Miss l toe agree entirely about the hours of handling. I once helped back a well bred 12 year old who was so easy due to the fact she had been well handled but just unbacked due to owners physical problems. Lots easier than the average 4 yr old.
Whilst I have seen a monty Roberts demo I have no idea what happened to the horses later. My experience of it myself has really been of muppets having a go themselves resulting in re-breaking in later life, but don't feel this is a fair comparison of the 2. In my experience both methods are based on respect & trust at every stage, & pushing just enough without over facing the horse.

 

[Dubsie]

There's an old boy (really old I'd imagine not short of 90-100) in a nearby village, and he tells me every time I see him how when he was 4 his Dad taught him the Monty Roberts method - not that this chap has probably ever heard of MR - to go and catch a horse in a field, he had to follow him keeping his eye on the horse's eye and then every time the horse stopped he had to make thee horse move on and send him away until eventually he was told to turn his back on the pony and go back steadily to his Dad at the gate without looking back, and the pony followed - then a headcollar was put on and he was told it was now his horse. So old method? new method? Marketing and make ££ method?

 

[fidleyspromise]

I used join-up for my first horse.
I am flitting between parelli games and traditional with my youngster. Whatever works with her is what we'll do.
I'm finding that the more I learn, the more I realise there isn't such a gap between "traditional" and "natural."

 

[debsg]

I used a combo of traditional and NH methods to start Jasmine, whatever worked for us both! I have had her since birth and she was a really easy horse to start. II had one of Kelly Marks' RA's to help with a bit of groundwork when she got bargey (my fault - I was treating her too much like a baby ). Other than that we figured things out between us. She is now 5 and going really nicely, just about to start a bit of pole work.