Have you built your own stables? - a concrete yard question?

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Thistle

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I posted over Xmas about my 15 month old concrete yard disintegrating following the snow/ice.

What concrete mix should you use for a stable yard (private house, 5 stables, access to large barn where lorry is stored) The yard has a 7.5t lorry drive over it regularly and the wear from the horses feet, occasional compact tractors over it, no extremely heavy vehicles.

yard is North facing and is u shaped with conrete pad in front of all buildings and a grassy area in the middle. In the winter doesn't get much sun.

I have found the delivery notes stating which RC mix was used and I wondered what others have used?

The yard has suffered severe scaling.
 
Sorry, can't help as we have tarmac. It's been down five years already, regularly has tractors and machinery over it and except for when the New Holland was parked up on it with the post knocker attached (very heavy) while it was repaired and in very hot weather, so hot that it sank into the tarmac so we now have dips, we've not had a bit of bother with it.
It does sounds as if your concrete was not fit for purpose. I would have thought it should have been agricultural strength for the sort of traffic you have over it but did they know what you would be using it for to begin with as I think the mix would be slightly different just for normal household use?
 
RC35 or RC40 with a minimum of 40mm cover to the reinforcement.

TBH, a decent concrete supplier should be able to advise you on what you need. :)
 
The builders and the concrete supplier were fully aware of the use, the stables and barn were already there!

The concrete that was used was RC30, which I believe is only suitable for mild exposure and fairly light use.

The same concrete was supplied both for in the barn (which is still perfect) and for the external use.

Not being concrete experts we accepted what the supplier said would be the correct mix for the job. The supplier is familiar with the property, having supplied materials here for the previous owners too. The yard was laid by a groundworks professional.

All parties concerned have adequate liability insurance, it's just a 'simple' matter of finding who is at fault........................

Putting a 'cap' over the concrete on the yard isn't really an option as it would make the yard higher than the stables and barn and lead to flooding.
 
I have emailed OH who is an engineer to ask him. Not something I know about but he knows lots about concrete. Sad man that he is :)
 
I cant remember the technicalities or what exact mix was used on mine but the people that supplied the concrete also supplied these fibre bag thingys that were put in the mixer when it arrived on the yard left to mix away for a while and then it was poured. The concrete was a specific mix as well but can't remember what. There was one bag per certain amount of concrete they were about £8 at the time - almost 10 yrs ago.

These are used instead of putting down the metal strengthening stuff

I have had no crumbling, splitting or problems what so ever

So I would definately ask the supplier about the fibre bag thingys :D

Person above with technical OH will probably be able to translate this post:D
 
I know nothing about concrete but that is shocking that yours is disintegrating after such a short time. Ours was laid about 20 years ago for our stables - a little later for a small yard area but there are no signs of problems with it. We have also laid two separate slabs for placing field shelters on and those too are still totally intact.
 
I had the concrete mix they use for cattle yards. I spoke to the cement company who recommended it. fingers crossed It still going strong 6 years on.
 
OK. This is what he has said


Sounds like they have suffered from freeze-thaw action, possibly in addition to chemical attack from de-icing salts which is very common in a yard situation. (see first page of attached pdf, there is a paragraph on house drives and similar uses).

On the second page of the pdf there is a table showing different ‘designated’ concrete mixes. This means you can go to any concrete supplier and tell them the designation and they make sure it fits the bill.
PAV 1 and PAV 2 designated mixes are specifically for these kind of parking areas. They have good strength to resist load and wear, and also have ‘entrained air’ which specifically prevents freeze-thaw and de-icing salt problems.
I guess you would go with PAV 2 if you could afford it although PAV 1 would no doubt do the trick.
An RC40 concrete should also be fine but I assume is more expensive than PAV 1 or PAV 2, and it’s the entrained air in the PAV mixes which makes them so good for these exposure conditions so I would go with that.

Also, if the concrete was poured in freezing or near freezing temperatures that is seriously bad news for a wearing surface like a yard so they should ask for temperature records from the contractor for the pour date to check (or get it from the met office) if it was poured in the winter.

Thistle if you want the PDF PM me your email and I'll forward it on to you. I'm not sure how to put one on here :)
 
How about hard coring it instead? I'd expect it'd be cheaper than concrete / tarmac. We did that to our yard and it works very well - it also gets less icy as its not smooth, which is the main reason we did it as with our yard we can open up gates directly into the field so the horses can come and go in and out of the yard (and their open stables / shelters) as they please.
 
Will try to remember to check what ours was when I get home - remember the delivery driver saying it was strong enough to land a harrier jump jet on!

It also had an additive to stop ammonia from urine damaging it
 
I know we didn't need the ammonia additive as all the mix was for outside, the stable floors were already there and in serviceable condition.

The yard was previously concreted when we moved in, but was very old broken and cracked so we removed all the old stuff, dug out new footings and started again.

there is a good layer of hardcore (4" or so) grid steel mesh and then 4-6" concrete.

The damage is all to the surface, it's now scaled over the whole area and also had a great deal of pitting, it's quite hard to sweep clean now.

The work cost in the region of 10k in Sept 2009.

Any remedial work to the yard will mean that I am unable to use all or part of the yard for as long as it takes. I have a potential laminitic small pony who can't live out (he can escape from 3 strand 4'6" electric wired to mains fencer! So he needs stabling part time.

I am feeling very frustrated atm.

Jesstickle, I'll PM you!
 
Speak to your local readymix company.
You will need at least 4 inches if you are going to regularly drive over it, 6 would be best but more expensive.
I don't wish to be a downer, but I would not recommend putting new concrete over the scaling stuff as you will get what is called 'float' where the two surfaces literally float against each other, and in my opinion, get professional help to remove the old and lay the new for you. Sorry to be negative, but you will then have a product that lasts forever.

Good luck,
Bryndu
 
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