Having a dither Re pony and future disciplines -help

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tb gal

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I have a very nice pony who sadly has been lame so missed all this summer competing (plus from her perspective she was stuck in a box!). I did dressage, showing, long distance and Trec with her. I now realise I had become obsessed with dressage although not that good at it -have won affiliated and qualified for regionals etc but by sheer persistance rather than talent.
I actually used to be quite ill with stress on competition days, had training session each week and competed fortnightly. Tried long distance with pony which I loved but she didnt. Did a bit of showing but it’s not for us though pony’s son has won big champs and qualified hoys etc not with me i hasten to add.
Went back to Trec which we both adore.
So having had six months off I have really enjoyed not actually doing much. I’m not sure I want to do dressage again. Pony is now sound.
I don’t particularly like the level of pressure on the mouth that comes with it and it’s not me. I really fancy trying western particularly trail horse classes as good cross over with Trec but worry I would be wasting the pony. I know that seems daft but did this with last horse and got comments like “just as he has started to understand” and “no wonder he gets confused”.
Sorry this seems a slightly pointless thread but I’m kind of teetering on the edge of a potentially big and expensive tack wise change with pony and can’t decide if I’m going to make a mistake throwing all that schooling away. Will still do Trec as well

I will add to the dithering that I went and watched a dressage comp last weekend by accident as was at venue for something else and did get a bit fired up again but that’s not the same as doing comps myself !
 
Horses are supposed to be fun. Why would you not do something that makes you both happy or do something that makes you feel ill just because you’ve always done it?

I don’t think it has to be exclusively one thing. If you don’t enjoy dressage comps, don’t do them. You won’t have wasted any talent or training as you now have a well schooled horse! Why not teach your horse new things, especially as you feel you’ve gone as far as you can with your current discipline?
 
Thank you Meleeka. I think my issue is I get obsessed with things but also I guess every one does dressage, the clothes are nice and it’s kind of “the” credible discipline Everyone “gets it”. I don’t know why I have to do what every one else does as never used to feel that way .Trec has been great for me as you use all the skills I am interested in such as map reading, orienteering, different obstacles and the riders I have met range from traditional old school to very hippy natural horsemen via western. I am planning to keep doing these but have limited competitions to no more than 3 hours drive from home so it depends on what is available on the Trec calendar next year.

My elderly mum and teenage son keep saying why do dressage when you clearly hate it! They come to comps with me. Son likes going to Trec camps as I’m not that stress head dressage monster! Am hopefully going to a western clinic in November to watch or maybe bring pony as she is just back in work.
 
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Not everyone does dressage. I do it for a point of schooling, did 3 intro tests in the spring but current mount and I like fence popping and hacking.
I've done my years (and years!) of showing and tho it interests me I wont be seriously going back in the ring despite B Fuzzy being good enough to top whp classes etc.
The animal doesn't know its being 'wasted' , which is a poor human term for 'you could do more'.
Instead, as life is too short, enjoy what you and your Fuzzy enjoy doing :) and sod everyone else x
 
If the pony has had 6 months off and is only just coming back into work I would spend the next 4-5 months ensuring she is fit, is going to remain sound enough to cope with any discipline let alone a demanding one like western, enjoy the time hacking and see how you feel next spring.
I don't think a pony cares about being wasted but I do think you have to get it well prepared before changing direction in a fairly major way, especially one coming back from injury.
 
A friend of mine is just getting into western and I've been going with her. The local competitions are low key and very friendly and from your description of your own character and of how you feel about le Trec I think you would love it. I'm assuming you are talking about the low key stuff with poles and gates etc, not barrel racing and sliding stops 😁

It's fun, it's requires precision without pressure, and it will give you new goals to work towards. The training my friend does will fit well with rehab too.
 
Be Postive I’d honestly interested in why you think it is demanding as that’s another thing to add to the mix as paranoid pony mum and yes we have all winter and early spring to get her fit she is up to 1 hour walking rides at the mo. To clarify I’m not interested in reining and she will not be able to do spins or slides due to the nature of her injury (suspensory ligament so no jumping either though vet seems to think it’s okay I don’t want to risk it).
 
I thought as you may be the obsessive type it could easily become demanding if you get very involved, then reining barrel racing in the future was in my mind but as she cannot do it it makes even more sense to just start slowly and see where you are in the spring.
 
It's completely different disciplines, BP. The Riding Club type western is like dressage crossed with handy pony and local showing. Things like opening rope gates, backing into parallel poles. Loping up to a square of poles, halt in the middle. All on a long rein. More like the difference between dressage and show jumping than between Prelim and Advanced.

TB gal have you been to see some of your local club's meetings or competitions? We were made to feel very welcome at the Northwest club.
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be positive said:
I thought as you may be the obsessive type it could easily become demanding if you get very involved, then reining barrel racing in the future was in my mind but as she cannot do it it makes even more sense to just start slowly and see where you are in the spring.
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Barrel racing, and other western races, arent included as western disciplines in the quarter horse and Western Equestrian Society (WES) worlds in the UK.

There are seperate associations (Western Horsemans Association & a barrel racing association) who offer those activities.

@Alibear will be able to correct me but the main events are pleasure, halter, horsemanship, trail, ranch horse and reining.

Reining does put a lot of stress on hocks and lumbar region with the sliding stops but there arent many surfaces suitable for practising them on and it generally requires having the horse shod behind with "sliders"/sliding shoes (wide, flat shoes with a tail to better glide thoughts surface). As with all things if the horse is properly fit, schooled correctly and managed properly (physio etc) it's no more strenuous than jumping and dressage.

Western is generally slower paced and lower pressure. The ethos is about the partnership with the horse having evolved from working horses and the skills required to do their job. Have a look on the WES website and fb page. If you google or search on fb you'll find western trainers and clubs in your area. More and more are popping up all the time.

Good luck whatever you decide
 
Thank you all , I am going to watch a clinic at osbaldaston in November. I’m kind of looking for something new to learn and interested in the stuff that’s a cross over from Trec obstacles where I already do/did rein back along poles, neck rein around a clover leaf pattern and a bend. I’m also keen on trying horse agility as well.I will look up the northwest group as that’s where I’m based.
 
tb gal said:
I actually used to be quite ill with stress on competition days... went back to Trec which we both adore.
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One makes you ill and the other you adore? Seems a clear choice to me! Do what you love, what lights you up, is not a bad motto for life.

tb gal said:
I don’t particularly like the level of pressure on the mouth that comes with it and it’s not me. I really fancy trying western particularly trail horse classes as good cross over with Trec
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I think you'd love Western. There is also 'Cowboy dressage' type approaches. I am still making sense of this as I don't really know enough about the approach really. But from my experiences Western is very light in the hand, the focus is on weight/seat aids, there is a huge emphasis on precision and control and making sure the horse is obedient and calm in all situations. I have done some cow work with Amber and she had to quietly move into a herd of cows to cut one out, then move slow step by slow step to pen it, but being able to break fast instantly to retrieve one if it got away. We both LOVED the focus and she was really purposeful in a way that she never is when we are riding normally. She is usually a bit too much of a hothead! We trained round obstacles before moving round cows and again the precision made sense to her and it was fun.

tb gal said:
but worry I would be wasting the pony. I know that seems daft but did this with last horse and got comments like “just as he has started to understand” and “no wonder he gets confused”.
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I do understand this. And your later comment about credibility. But to be honest you can take things as far as you want to and as seriously as you want to in any discipline. There is SO MUCH to learn when you start looking at Western approaches. I recently went to a Tik Maynard clinic. He is an eventer who had trained with top dressage, SJ and event riders as a working pupil: Then went to study with a cowboy and said he learnt more about horses in 6 months with the cowboy than the previous years with the world's best riders. His riding did not improve but his skill and understanding did, so his training did too. So of course his horses all improved.

As for other people, I think you will find others who share whatever your passion is. So who cares what other people think. And you may find others are more interested in what you do than you expect. There is a Western rider on my intensely traditional BHS yard. She did a demo recently and loads of people came to watch. The unfamiliarity of the approach makes some of what she does seem almost magical - when it is actually quite basic. Like cantering round on the buckle and coming to a halt with no reins (not a sliding stop! Just a normal controlled halt down through the gaits). Hell, even standing still at a mounting block is an unusual skill for horses to have! And no Western rider hops about trying to mount as far as I can tell.

A horse has not concept of being wasted but actually I think you will start to see that if you are serious about putting a really solid Western style foundation on your horse you will dramatically improve him, not waste him! Trainers like Buck Brannaman put the same foundation on every horse who then go on to be or do whatever. He trained an Olympic show jumper the exact same way he trains ranch horses.
 
My son has a lovely arab who is responding so well to western horsemanship classes - for them both it is the perfect way to school and they have gelled with their fab instructor but this is all done in English tack? He is an endurance arab who is benefitting from this way of schooling your horse. So you do not need to rush out and change your tack until you know it is for you.

Please do not worry about what other people think about what you are doing with your horse - I have realised that they are normally not even thinking about you at all but worrying about their partnership with their own horse.

Do what you enjoy. Horses are not meant to be stressful, I have a cob which I try and do a bit of everything on. He loves to be kept busy, so variety is the key I think.
 
Re the "credibility" factor. There are greats in every sphere. Have a look on youtube at some of the equation classes that I believe are done with Iberian type breeds. Then have a look at extreme trail. Then have a look at the top level TREC competitors. The control, training and skills in these blows some of the "credible" activities out of the water.

There is excellence in all spheres and it doesnt always have to be found in competition either. Whatever you choose to do aim to do it well. Seek out the best to learn from. Most of all do what makes YOU happy. This is a hobby and they are supposed to be enjoyable!

P.s. if you haven't already read Tik Maynard's book In the Middle are the Horsemen. He talks about Cafeteria Horsemanship and I think that might resonate with you at your crossroads. Also have a stalk of @Ambers Echo previous posts about her Guy Robertson cattle training and about her weekend clinic with Tik. I'm sure you'll find inspiration in them
 
Screw "wasting" the horse. Do what you want to do. My midget pony in my avatar has done just about everything - he played horseball, I got bored. We went showing, I got bored. We dressaged to medium, I got bored. We played a (short) season of polocrosse, I got bored. We do TREC sporadically (he's bloody good at it), but I - well I get bored with it, like everything else. We're currently having fun doing archery on horseback - I'd like to stick at a sport for once, and this one is pretty cool, but we'll see in time. I've dabbled in barrel racing with my half-blood QH and if I could afford it, I probably would do more western stuff with her.

My point is - it is more important to me that my horses and I enjoy their job, rather than that their job is consistent. The rules change, but I train them consistently. I don't believe that a horse isn't intelligent enough to understand when to work into a contact, and when to work off a loose rein, or any other variation in method, provided the training itself is good and clear. I've taken something useful from every sport we've done, and the end result is that I have quite versatile ponies even if they're not world beaters in any discipline.

Of course, it helps that I don't give a toss whether anyone else thinks my disciplines are credible or not. I don't have a very high opinion of dressage or sj at grassroots, or at the top (though for very different reasons), so I'd say one man's credible is another man's horror show. There's good and bad in everything - it's up to the individual to pick what works for their horse and apply it.


eta - cattle work. That's totally on my list. Really cool.
 
Echo what JFTD-WS said about variety not being the same as inconsistency! Just within dressage, horses learn canter and counter canter, bend and counter bend, collected and extended. Train them to understand what is expected and they happily comply. My SJ mad YO used to tell me I should not event, but I should just show jump Amber. Her jumping got worse after my first few events and I got endless earache about 'ruining' her jumping by taking her XC. But she now understands that SJ and XC are ridden differently. Plus I don't want to show jump so I don't really care if she would be 'better' as a pure show jumper than she is as an eventer.

In Western (I think) there is a focus on control - any speed, any gait, any direction, anytime with no bracing! How can that be bad for dressage?
 
Firstly, take your time to get your horse fit again.

Do what you love, and what your horse loves. This is the crux of the matter, everything else is superfluous, and the hard graft of training for something you love is so much more satisfying at all levels than worrying about whether it's good in other peoples' eyes. Your horse, your effort, your enjoyment.

I've found that my various horses have all taken me down different routes: the bred-for-eventing horse who preferred hacking and long-distance, the conformationally challenged little horse who adored dressage, the Welsh D who was an out-and-out showgirl, the current young Fell who is good enough to show but prefers a bit of jumping and gymkhana games etc etc. I've learned loads from all of them and had masses of fun. Not one of these 'disciplines' is better than any other - they all require the same basic training - to be supple, balanced and able to carry a rider well - there's just emphasis on different individual movements within that.


PS If you like LeTrek and fancy keeping up with your dressage maybe have a look at Working Equitation
 
You do need to be careful, as in other disciplines, which trainer you use if you go down the western route. There is one trainer locally who is much used despite sharing freely with me that riders who take up western do so because they are rubbish riders. And if they are too useless even for western, they go into Parelli :eek:.
 
Tiddlypom said:
You do need to be careful, as in other disciplines, which trainer you use if you go down the western route. There is one trainer locally who is much used despite sharing freely with me that riders who take up western do so because they are rubbish riders. And if they are too useless even for western, they go into Parelli :eek:.
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There are rubbish trainers in all disciplines, not just western.

There are cruel, harsh, unfair and clueless trainers making a mint throughout the whole sector.

At last years western show I sat through the clinic with a very well known british trainer. At one point he lost his cool and whipped the horse with the reins (long, split reins) across its chest repeatedly and chased it around the arena backwards (have video, not baseless libellous claim). Then I heard him talk about one of his long term students, who was also in the clinic and the show the next day, saying that the student isnt as good as she thinks she is and needs brought down a peg or two. He was talking about her to another trainer that she has used and has a relationship with. Both trainers agreed with the sentiment and were laughing that she was struggling with the correct lope strike of. These are people that she pays to train her to get better but that seemed lost on them.

I've seen the same with flatwork, dressage and eventing coaches too. It's hard to know who to trust and sometimes you only learn that the hard way but that shouldn't put you off trying a new sport or activity. There are also good people out there!
 
That's shocking but not surprising TPO :(

I once stopped my lessons with someone local to me who I actually was learning a lot from. But she was so critical and bitchy about other riders that I thought "what are you saying about me to other people?!" and binned her. It's unprofessional but worse even than that - it is just horrid. I like being around people I like.
 
Ambers Echo said:
That's shocking but not surprising TPO :(

I once stopped my lessons with someone local to me who I actually was learning a lot from. But she was so critical and bitchy about other riders that I thought "what are you saying about me to other people?!" and binned her. It's unprofessional but worse even than that - it is just horrid. I like being around people I like.
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AE, I've binned a couple and wont go to RC if they are coaching, for exactly the same reasons.
One regularly posts that they have spaces available at short notice, no idea why they cant fill their sessions..... he is so rude to people about others, many eventually have thought it through tho.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
AE, I've binned a couple and wont go to RC if they are coaching, for exactly the same reasons.
One regularly posts that they have spaces available at short notice, no idea why they cant fill their sessions..... he is so rude to people about others, many eventually have thought it through tho.
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I'm very suspicious of coaches who bitch about their clients openly. It's not a good sign :/
 
JFTD-WS said:
I'm very suspicious of coaches who bitch about their clients openly. It's not a good sign :/
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Exactly. I'm pretty quick to cut anyone off if I hear it tho.

I tackled one head on as he was brutally slagging off previous client as I was warming up. Gave him my take on client confidentiality, got off and went back to box to go home.
He came rushing behind me trying to make light of it, but as far as I was concerned he went straight on the dont go there list. Luckily am long in tooth and can (usually) stand up for myself. He's the one who has lost a few clients.....
 
It sounds to me as though you and your pony will have slot of fun trying new things, surely that is what it's all about..?? I find dressage insanely boring, both to do and to watch. However, as I've gotten older I have learned the benefits of good flat work etc. My passion is jumping and I do like a dabble in xcountry. I'm not a natural rider, I've had to work hard at it so it's great to have some fun. I think your pony with be lucky rather than wasted :)
 
Do what you & the pony enjoy & sod everyone else. Life is too short to live other peoples dreams / to conform to what other people think you should be doing. Last I checked you are the one paying the livery (& the lorry if you're lucky enough to have one) & it's the enjoyment of you & the horse that matters not what random other liveries think.

There's good & bad in every discipline, generally I look for trainers interested in putting the horse first & making the experience enjoyable rather than tortuous! (Yes of COURSE I want to be told if I'm riding like a sack of potatoes & I don't expect to be allowed to get away with poor riding but personal insults & talk of "wasting horses" shouldn't come into the argument of why my body is doing random things that I swear I didn't ask it to / why my circles are egg shaped & my straight lines look more like wiggles). I've seen some awesome videos floating around both of working equitation & there's an amazing video of someone riding a western trail class bridleless better than I could tackle something like that with a bridle.

If you want to try some Western stuff then go for it. You won't know if you like it unless you try (although I'd perhaps refrain from buying a whole new wardrobe until you know if you DO like it... I'm sure if you have a chat with whoever is running the clinics / events you're interested is they'll be able to advise you but I'm sure initially they'd let you come in your usual tack & then you can always purchase Western tack at a later date if you feel you want to)

I agree that it's perfectly possible to try a little bit of everything without confusing the horse. The little orange Welshie I used to have tried his hand at dressage (I was useless at remembering tests), showjumping / showcross (mostly went badly due to nerves), showing, TREC (& unless I'm very much mistaken I believe we've met so you know he was a pro at this... me not so much when it comes to mapreading!), polocrosse although only one taster day (had I more time & more local events I'd've liked to have done more of this), multi-day rides, gymkhana games (he'd've made a damn good games pony I think) & a friend did faff around with a horseball on him once although we never took things further & hunting (easily his favourite activity because I generally got out of his way & let him get on with it).

I've just taken delivery of my new youngster & very excited to learn what he's got in store for me. The vague general plan is to for him to end up as well schooled as I'm able to make him (with a lot of assistance!) not particularly with competition in mind but just because I want him to learn to carry himself (& me) in the best way possible that will (I hope!) lessen his risk of injury (expecting this to be many years in the making) & to hopefully do some TREC to a decent level if I can ever get my map-reading brain in gear as well as general hacking & whatever chances to generally fool about & have fun come our way. I'm expecting the reality may work out a little different as things rarely go to plan!
 
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