Having a horse put down - Injection or Gun ?

[Errin Paddywack]

Our hunt does run a fallen stock service but you have to pay for it. An initial fee to join then a charge per animal collected and they do put down as well. Current charge with VAT is £20. Very grateful to have them. However for putting horses down I prefer to use a knacker. Not sure what the hunt charge to put down a horse, it used to be about £100. Everything they take in is incinerated.

 

[Birker2020]

deleted

 

[Carobean]

I am having to book in PTS for my boy in the next few days and I’m dreading the phone call to the knackerman… is it enough notice to book it in the day before? I’m not sure I would cope with a ‘date’ in mind.

 

[nagblagger]

Yes, mine come out same day if necessary.
Thinking of you...

 

[Snow Falcon]

I've done a day before. My local hunt were really good though and offered to fit me in the same day if I needed.

 

[meleeka]

As a rough estimate I’ve probably been there for 2500 animal euthanasias now. I’ve seen my share of ‘bad’ ones and many very smooth. Even my needle shy pony will be injected unless there’s a longer wait for that and time is critical. It’s just what I’m comfortable with. Sedation if needed but otherwise ‘straight’ Somulose via IV cannula.

I’m being nosey so feel free to ignore, but how do you get to see that many pts?

 

[meleeka]

I am having to book in PTS for my boy in the next few days and I’m dreading the phone call to the knackerman… is it enough notice to book it in the day before? I’m not sure I would cope with a ‘date’ in mind.

They will probably do it same day if you ask. They will be used to dealing with emergency situations, so a days notice should be fine.

Sorry you are having to face it

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

All this talk of blood. Often there is very little and that comes out of the nose.

Unless burried on site the carcase is winched onto a wagon no matter what method of pts is used.

Maybe because some of us has seen the amount of blood and blood trails.

 

[ester]

I’m being nosey so feel free to ignore, but how do you get to see that many pts?

vet

 

[Carobean]

They will probably do it same day if you ask. They will be used to dealing with emergency situations, so a days notice should be fine.

Sorry you are having to face it

This was my thought. Thank you so much. I'm just grateful that he is none the wiser and enjoying his last few days in the sun.

 

[rabatsa]

Maybe because some of us has seen the amount of blood and blood trails.

As my father, a dentist, used to say - A little bit of blood goes a long way.

 

[Auslander]

Our oldest resident was pts by injection last week - he was sedated beforehand, and went down very quietly and easily. It was a very peaceful end to a very long and happy life, and he was gone less than an hour after the accident which did for him.
A couple were pts by the hunt in previous years, and I hate the noise, but have no issue with the process.

 

[Xmasha]

I’m sorry you are in this position. The waiting and making the decision is the hardest part .
We have used injection both on the horses and the last one was on our dog the other week . All where very peaceful and done at home surrounded by their friends . In our dogs case surrounded by the family . They all just went to sleep . I couldn’t think of a better way to go for any of them .
my final memories of them are good ones. No noise , no mess, no fuss . They just slept .
I was able to be with them all at the very end which I’d like to think helped them relax and make the process much easier for them all .
I’ve got to be honest , they all had a much better death than my mum and dad did . How can that be right , but that’s a whole other debate .

 

[Birker2020]

I’ve got to be honest , they all had a much better death than my mum and dad did . How can that be right , but that’s a whole other debate .

Yes that's honestly why I didn't feel so bad having Bailey pts having seen my Dad deteriorate before his death. When a person pleads that they "just want to die" its a terrible feeling of hopelessness. At least with an animal you get to choose where and when.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I have used both and would go for Gun every time; we have a lovely Knackerman in our area and he can be trusted to do a good job even with difficult/headshy horses. His last visit to our yard was (sadly) early this week and he explained the difference between the two methods. When the horse is shot it is actually "dead" by the time the owner hears the shot.......... whereas with injection they know they are going to hit the ground and then produce adrenaline which is a stress reaction.

 

[seaofdreams]

I’m so sorry you’re having to make this decision, I’ve just lost my 26yr old mare, this was my first time and my vet was amazing, she explained everything beforehand including that my mare could ‘run’ once down and make sighing noises but that she would be gone and that it was just muscles relaxing and her body shutting down.
she said that on horses that are good to inject she didn’t use a sedative, she did explain why but I can’t really remember the full details.

My mare went so peacefully (well as peaceful as it can be) by the time she was down her eyes were closed as if she was sleeping then as she passed away they opened again and we all sat with her talking, laughing and crying over 20 years of amazing memories until the guy came to collect her, we then left and my vet stayed with her whilst she collected. Thankfully there was no running or noises, but it was good to be prepared.

When it’s her sons time I will definitely be choosing the injection again, I have no issues with the gun, but I know I’d want to be with him too, I always said that I saw him into this world and I’d see him out of it.

thinking of you x

 

[Birker2020]

whereas with injection they know they are going to hit the ground and then produce adrenaline which is a stress reaction.

I don't believe this for one second, and if they produce adrenaline its probably within a millisecond and doesn't even compute with the brain.

 

[Xmasha]

I don't believe this for one second, and if they produce adrenaline its probably within a millisecond and doesn't even compute with the brain.

Neither do i.

With Wallace, the injection went in, his head went down and he was gone. Literally within seconds. No way did he know. With Harry, he went pretty much the same. Both times instant, and peaceful

 

[IrishMilo]

To add to my post in favour of using a pistol (I've had two done personally and been there for a friend's horse as she was too upset to face it.)

I watched my friend's horse be done last week, as I didn't have a strong emotional attachment to him.

Spoiler: Details on euthanasia

The process was over in less than two seconds from the pistol being put on his head to the horse being dead - he was gone before he had hit the floor. As soon as the trigger was pulled, the horse's knees buckled and he went down instantly onto his side. Blood did flow from his nose but a good purveyor will have a bag ready to put over the head instantly. Having seen how fast the process is, and how the horse knew nothing of what was coming, I feel totally at ease using this method.

 

[Birker2020]

To add to my post in favour of using a pistol (I've had two done personally and been there for a friend's horse as she was too upset to face it.)

I watched my friend's horse be done last week, as I didn't have a strong emotional attachment to him.

Spoiler: Details on euthanasia

The process was over in less than two seconds from the pistol being put on his head to the horse being dead - he was gone before he had hit the floor. As soon as the trigger was pulled, the horse's knees buckled and he went down instantly onto his side. Blood did flow from his nose but a good purveyor will have a bag ready to put over the head instantly. Having seen how fast the process is, and how the horse knew nothing of what was coming, I feel totally at ease using this method.

I watched the documentary about shooting the ex racehorses that was on the telly and also have seen similar on the forum. I was amazed how quickly they go down when shot, the back legs shoot out backwards, not at all what you would expect, its very odd but also very quick. But personally its not for me, I'm a bit too sensitive to the bang.

 

[criso]

I don't believe this for one second, and if they produce adrenaline its probably within a millisecond and doesn't even compute with the brain.

Not sure about the injection but if they are sedated first they know they are being sedated and not all respond well. Mine hated it and fought it so I chose not to use injection.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Mine was sedated then injected. I think the vet overestimated the sedation because he was pretty much asleep before the injection. I’m glad I didn’t have the gun, the blood would have distressed me even more. He had no idea what was going on, went down like a ton of bricks. ?

 

[SEL]

. whereas with injection they know they are going to hit the ground and then produce adrenaline which is a stress reaction.

I'm forever having horses sedated (teeth, clipping etc) and there's no adrenaline. The last one I had PTS needed an intra muscular sedative over the stable door before we could get to a vein for a full dose of sedative. He wasn't stressed and that was a pony that wasn't well handled.

He knew nothing about the final injection and was gone by the time he went down.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm forever having horses sedated (teeth, clipping etc) and there's no adrenaline. The last one I had PTS needed an intra muscular sedative over the stable door before we could get to a vein for a full dose of sedative. He wasn't stressed and that was a pony that wasn't well handled.

He knew nothing about the final injection and was gone by the time he went down.

I get the feeling that the knackerman MJABT has quoted has a vested interest in spouting c**p so that he gains more potential clients.
If the case that every animal that had ever been sedated prior to PTS (horse, cat, dog, rabbit, fox, badger, hamster) had an adrenaline rush and 'fought' it or whatever then I think there'd be millions of people that were questioning if this was ethical.

As a note, there are very clear rules about injection to the heart which was an old fashioned way of PTS animals that didn't have a viable vein but this is no longer permitted in conscious animals, only the other day I was watching Wildlife SOS from back in the late 90's I think it was and they pts a fox with an injection to the heart and it turned and snapped at them as they depressed the plunger, not when the needle went in, which isn't surprising really and this is why it is banned.

 

[rara007]

The whole point of sedation is there is no adrenaline rush..! In surgical patients these things are very closely monitored, and the same drugs are used.

 

[Gallop_Away]

Guys I think it's very important to stick to FACTS on discussions like these. Everyone is entitled to express their preferences and the reasons why e.g. not being comfortable around blood, having a needle phobic horse etc, but it is not helpful or kind to make statement such as horses that are sedated and put down via injection experience, fear, panic etc when that is based on pure speculation!
It is nor helpful or kind to those who have had their beloved horses pts using this method to be reading this and being left questioning themselves or thinking their horses spent their last few moments in distress.
Also for what it's worth I think that statement made by the knackerman is pure horse crap!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Sorry you find yourself in this position OP.

I have and would always have them shot but you need to do what is best for you and your horse.

Sedation isn't a pleasant feeling for a prey animal, and neither is the injection that euthanises them - they can obviously feel it coming on, or a strange feeling as they resist often if unsedated. I am therefore not fully comfortable in my mind that they don't feel this, but due to the sedation just cannot physically react, which true or not is a traumatic thought for me and I don't want to risk it. I have seen several horses PTS with a gun, done either by the hunt or the fallen stockman and it has been immediate and distress free every time.

I have always held them to the end, but don't ever stay to watch them loaded into the stock trailer. It's horrid and uneccessary - they are gone at that point and you will be left with those images in your head.

^^^ Thank you for expressing exactly what I was trying to say in my comment earlier regarding the "adrenaline" reaction; this is exactly where that might occur when a prey animal is suddenly in the situation where they are sedated and cannot escape - as opposed to the gun which happens suddenly. And I don't think it is helpful to receive rude remarks like it's a lot of "horse cr@p" for raising this as a possibility for what just might occur and/or the licensed knackerman with whom the discussion ensued, is anything less than professional for saying it.

I've had horses PTS by both methods, and on all occasions I was happy at that time that I'd made the right decision for the horse concerned. With my old girl who was PTS last summer it wouldn't have been kind to have done lethal injection as she was needle-phobic and my vet always used to say she jumped six-feet in the air as soon as she saw a needle. So we had her shot. With my two oldies we had them done together by lethal injection, all very peaceful.

 

[Gallop_Away]

^^^ Thank you for expressing exactly what I was trying to say in my comment earlier regarding the "adrenaline" reaction; this is exactly where that might occur when a prey animal is suddenly in the situation where they are sedated and cannot escape - as opposed to the gun which happens suddenly. And I don't think it is helpful to receive rude remarks like it's a lot of "horse cr@p" for raising this as a possibility for what just might occur and/or the licensed knackerman with whom the discussion ensued, is anything less than professional for saying it.
.

And I do not think it's helpful to make unfounded speculations on what, in your own words, MIGHT happen.
Whilst this person may be a perfectly reputable knackerman, this alone does not make him qualified to make such comments and I'm afraid I do find it highly unprofessional for him to criticise other methods of euthanasia, just as I would find it unprofessional a vet criticising the use of a gun.
Making such unfounded comments on a thread where many posters have chosen to have their horses pts in this way is very insensitive and completely unnecessary.
Both methods are perfectly acceptable when carried out correctly by a professional. We all try and make the best decision for our horses and ourselves. Let's just leave it at that!

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

Whichever method you choose the most important thing is for you to be with your horse. He/she has worked for you for years, knows you & relates to you and is part of the family. I believe it to be heartless when you have your animal put to sleep & the horse does not have the calming influence & affection of his rider at that time. I have heard from various vets & they are of a similar belief.

 

[TheresaW]

We’ve been with every one of ours at the end apart from one cat, who was put under for x-rays and they weren’t good, so he wasn’t woken up.

The other was a ferret. He was very poorly, and we took him in to pts, but vet said it wasn’t straight forward with smalls, and we couldn’t be there. Was a few years ago now and I can’t remember what was done differently.