Having belief in yourself..... the biggest road to improvement?

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KatB

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As above really, I know many people who have many fantastic lessons, and an amazing horse, and yet never improve. Some people say this is due to them never having to learn "feel" as they rely on someone to help them, but could it be down to the fact they never LET themselves learn how to feel, as they are mentally needing someone to tell them due to having no self belief?

I started thinking about it, as I had a lesson yesterday with someone who I have had lessons with over the winter for the last 3 years or so. He said he has never seen so much improvement from me, and it wasn't because I was doing anything differently as such, as I've always "had the tools" so to speak, but because I seemed so much more confident and had belief in what I was doing... now nothing has really changed in my riding, and I haven't had any more lessons than before, but I have changed my mentality massively which I thought had just meant I enjoyed it more, but evidently has had a bigger impact.

SO, are people wasting money/time on shed load of lessons if they haven't got the right mentality/mind frame in place?

Not sure if i've got that down how I wanted to, but will be interesting to see replies :)
 
I totally believe this - you have to have belief in your own ability to achieve i think.

I have had some good results on the flat and B is very consistent in this area. I am convinced a lot is to do with the fact that when i trot down the CL i totally believe i can do a good test. This isn't meant to be arrogant but i've spent a lot of time on my flat work - maybe got a bit lucky and i believe we can do well. And more often than not we do.

Jumping is a different matter BUT i am slowly getting there and now i do believe that B and i are a team - since i've been confident in this our results have improved so so many times over!!!

I know people who are much much better than me but have no faith in their ability - particularly amongst eventers in the dressage phase. How they believe they can do normally correlates with their results.
 
I think you're spot on. I'm looking to get some sport psychology help, because my way of dealing with my lack of confidence is to take the p*** out of myself, before others can. End result I never expect to do anything and therefore I don't.
 
I do think its a waste having lessons if you use the new skills / tips you are being taught.

I really want to improve, I'm not one for staying in the same class for ever. I know my horse can do it, its just I have never been at the level I am aiming for so I need coaching along the way.

The coaching / training I am receiving gives me that self belief and confidence that you talk about. Infact I am even considering moving up to 1m classes! :eek:

OH doesn't mind me having lessons, infact he is as bad as me for wanting to improve.
 
OldGit said:
I think you're spot on. I'm looking to get some sport psychology help, because my way of dealing with my lack of confidence is to take the p*** out of myself, before others can. End result I never expect to do anything and therefore I don't.
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Exactly this. I was constantly on the defence, because I was constantly thinking what "so and so was doing" or was looking for someone else to tell me I was doing good. However, since I have changed that outlook, I have started to trust myself a bit more, and ironically am now in a position to be a lot more excited about what we can achieve. It is very difficult though, as I know people who have massive self belief, which when misdirected, can be destructive.
 
Odd that this post has come up as I said the same thing to my instructor yesterday. I'm not sure that it's quite the same "confidence" that others here refer to though! We have been doing a lot of work on maintaining a stable position and contact, essentially passive resistance so the horse rewards itself when it is straight and round. To be successful, consistency is essential IMO. However, unless you have the self-confidence to know that you are asking for the right thing in the right way, it's tempting to fiddle or change something. In my case, I tend to be a bit too soft and quick to give to the horse if they resist. However, if I'm confident that what I am asking is reasonable and correct, I'm more likely to be firm and consistent, and therefore have a more confident horse too.

I've no idea if that makes sense to anyone else, but it was a lightbulb moment for me yesterday!!
 
I totally agree, I think self belief plays a massive part in success. Horses are renowned for highs and lows but people with self belief just pick themselves up and carry on, they know they can do it.
My OH told me something interesting today, he said you can't get somewhere or improve unless you do something you haven't done before. Which makes total sense, I think I can't do something because I haven't done it before... Well to be successful we need to attempt things for the first time and believe we can do it, otherwise we will never progress :)

I know for a fact that I do the same old tested formula, the same lessons, i ride the same way, think the same way and I wonder why I'm always at the same point. I know I need to be braver to try something different, give the next level a go and hopefully I will start to achieve what I want to achieve :)
 
OldGit said:
I think you're spot on. I'm looking to get some sport psychology help, because my way of dealing with my lack of confidence is to take the p*** out of myself, before others can. End result I never expect to do anything and therefore I don't.
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Im the same, when I didnt get onto the JRN squad I just felt like I couldnt ride at all, and I just felt b*****ks. Even on my 5yo if I make a cock up I get completely fed up with myself and I get really down with my what I think to be lack of riding ability.

Im quite tempted to find sports pyschology help.
 
absolutely agree.
i have down days like everyone else but my natural disposition is self confident and positive. im sure its this that has enabled me to turn around some of the *****s that iv had in to school, i believe im right SO much, the horses eventually cave in and believe it too!

teaching wise i do see people who are held back by always thinking something is their fault/their mistake, and by not having the balls to take control and be 200% commited to doing it their way.

my old jump trainer used to say -better to be commited to being wrong, than not to be commited to anything and in many ways it does work, if the horse can feel that belief oozing out of every pore, and your determination too, they will normally knuckle down and give you their best....they dont like to be in la la half way land, where you arent quite sure and they know you arent quite sure.
 
Confidence is a massive factor in success. I think Pippa Funnells book is really interesting in that the year she was invincible during the grand slam everything just fell into place because she believed it and never waivered from her plan.

The sports people who amaze me the most and most be incredibly mentally strong are high jumpers. Effectively you know you have a limit yet every day you are trying to make it higher and hope that you keep improving and you also know what everyone else is jumping and hope that if they are jumping higher that they fall apart on the day. I would be fascinated to speak to a high jumper to know what makes them tick.
 
You had a good lesson then, cool ;-))

I totally agree, since bobs injury my mentality was just to get out there, have fun and enjoy my horse! Since then, ironically we've come on more together than ever, my regular instructor can see, I can feel and he seems different!

If you believe in your own ability and the horses, you are half way there! As long as you are happy, who Cares !
 
I agree to some extent. I think you have to have the confidence in what you;re doing to be consistent, especially as horses deal with consistency - even if it's not quite right - mush more easily than inconsistency. The fact is, unlike in other sports, the horse brings something to the equation so it needs to be able to predict what the rider will do and understand what he/she wants in order to be consistent in its responses. This is why sometimes people do better in ignorance - if they always say, kick in front of the jump, the horse learns to adjust for that and even, in some cases, to ignore it. ;)

Which isn't to say confidence isn't an aspect of doing things correctly, it's just that doing well with horses is not a case of "just this or that" but more a case of doing as much correctly as possible for the situation.

I do think the experimental aspect comes into that, too. Consistency is the enemy of improvement but, if you're relatively sure you're doing at least a decent job you're much more sure, worst case, you can at least get back to that level if you try to change something so much more confident to try. It's counterintuitive in many ways but if you're sure of what you're doing you're more likely to try something new, even though intellectually most people know the time to change is when it's NOT working. I find most really good horsemen are very open to improvement, even though many people can't see why they "need" to improve. Also, success is a habit so the more things you do that work, the more likely you are to think you'll succeed at the next thing.

All that said, I think there's a HUGE difference between being confident because you've learned the right things and you know what you should be doing and where you want to go, than some artificial "double think" where you convince yourself you know something you don't. I have worked with a lot of people with confidence "issues" and in many cases the real crash (literally or metaphorically - often both) often comes because a rider thinks she/he knows something he/she doesn't and then is completely thrown when it doesn't work the expected way.

The idea of knowledge solidifying later, though, is very common. Even after decades of learning about horses I still find myself saying "Oooh, that's what that means!" about things I thought I understood at the time. I guess that's confidence in a way too - I don't think I was "wrong" before, I just think I know more now. I think that's why people do need time to be on their own, to work out things out for themselves BUT everyone also needs to keep learning so they should be open to the fact that better does not mean best. A good instructor should also facilitate that attitude, helping their students not only learn the meat of a lesson, but also have the confidence to experiment and add to their knowledge outside those narrow limits.

The idea about "what other people think" is very important, too. That is a really enemy to progress sometimes. It's often said that people who do better often "fail better" which means they aren't afraid of making mistakes and trying new things. If you're too worried that everyone is watching you'll never take the chance at failing and if you don't fail, you won't learn what you CAN do.
 
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I agree totally, I am a bit of a weirdo ;) I school horses for a living, breaking, training, the lot, I am really good with other horses, really confident, nothing bothers me, horses go really well and the owners are v happy, have a lot of repeat business so I assume that they really are happy!

My own horse on the other hand is a whole different kettle of fish, I am not confident in my own ability with him, I don't think I ride him well enough or that I am doing it right, or that I am going to ruin him/break him! After MUCH thought I realised it is because I get my confidence from knowing that I am doing a good job, this usually comes from the clients and I know I am doing a better job than them (hence why I am riding them, not because I am an amazing rider or anything) therefore am SUPER confident, they believe in me so I believe in me! Weird isn't it!!!!!

After realising this was my main problem, I have sold my horse (in my head, he is a client's horse!) and HEY PRESTO, MASSIVE improvement, looking forward to my next lesson to see what my trainer thinks! :D

PS I know I am strange :o
 
SamuelWhiskers said:
You had a good lesson then, cool ;-))

I totally agree, since bobs injury my mentality was just to get out there, have fun and enjoy my horse! Since then, ironically we've come on more together than ever, my regular instructor can see, I can feel and he seems different!

If you believe in your own ability and the horses, you are half way there! As long as you are happy, who Cares !
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Yes a really good one thanks :) JP was really complimentary, and thinks madam is "serious", and called her a true jumper. I've just got to up my game over the next 18months, make sure all the basics are really there, and give her time to strengthen up (he reckons she'll be growing for a while yet!) and he thinks we'll be capable of doing things I would never have believed before. :) Bless him! B was asking where you were ;) :D
 
Completely agree Tarrsteps with every paragraph there. Especially the trying new things even if things are going well. I think pushing the boundaries is the best way to improve, but you have to have the confidence that it isn't going to fall apart by changing something. It's so easy to sail along at a certain pace when it works, but it will hit a wall where you need to change something to keep getting the results, and sometimes it is better to have made that discovery early on... but it comes down in having the belief to be able to do that!

It is very difficult. I think having the right sort of support is invaluable, and finding someone that works for you as a "mentor" will create confidence where it deserves to be, and helps to set realistic targets.
 
I think belief in yourself is good, except when it borders on arragance or when people think they are better than they are, then I think it's downright dangerous as they move up a level before they/the horse are ready and some horses will just carry on struggling - others loose their confidence and have a breakdown and take a long time to get right. I think this is where experience and/or and excellent instructor comes in to help guide you - although some people just dont want to listen or accept it........
 
KatB said:
It is very difficult though, as I know people who have massive self belief, which when misdirected, can be destructive.
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This is the most difficult part, I think... how can someone tell that their confidence is properly founded, or not? I guess our trainers (if they're honest!), the horses and the results tell us, most of all, but some horses are a lot more genuine, and forgiving, than others. (Then it depends how long that will hold... depending on the errors the rider makes, sometimes even the most honest horse will eventually say "hold on a minute... I don't think so.")

j1ffy said:
"To be successful, consistency is essential IMO. However, unless you have the self-confidence to know that you are asking for the right thing in the right way, it's tempting to fiddle or change something."

Yes, exactly this, this sums it up perfectly. You have to have a LOT of confidence in the system you have learnt, to keep using it even when it isn't necessarily working YET for a given horse. Some horses really resist, too, for a long time, even when the rider's convinced they're doing it right - the horse has learn evasions that have become habitual, or it's not comfortable to do it right because of incorrect musculature, say.
But if you change something before getting the right answer, it just confuses the horse more, you're asking a different question but expecting the same result.

TarrSteps said:
"I do think the experimental aspect comes into that, too. Consistency is the enemy of improvement but, if you're relatively sure you're doing at least a decent job you're much more sure, worst case, you can at least get back to that level if you try to change something so much more confident to try."

Yes, but consistency (done the right way) also leads inexorably to improvement! It's a bit of a Mobius band thingy, it kind of works both ways, but with a twist. Well, I know what I mean! You need your basic good habit to go back to (what a trainer of mine used to call "a blueprint trot" for example) - the basic good one that you can always get, and go back to at any time, so you're never throwing the baby out with the bathwater when asking for more, or asking differently, or experimenting with something else.

Back to the original question - confidence is hugely important, and sometimes a rider can get fantastic results with a horse because they are so positive that the horse just goes "okay, great, let's!!" I'd rather see a less than perfect rider with a lot of positivity, than a technically excellent rider with no confidence in what they're doing - especially to a fence. Horses tend to prefer the first type too...
 
KatB said:
Yes a really good one thanks :) JP was really complimentary, and thinks madam is "serious", and called her a true jumper. I've just got to up my game over the next 18months, make sure all the basics are really there, and give her time to strengthen up (he reckons she'll be growing for a while yet!) and he thinks we'll be capable of doing things I would never have believed before. :) Bless him! B was asking where you were ;) :D
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Thats brilliant news kat ;-))))) Fantastic when you get compliments like that, after a lot of hard work! Sounds like she has JP wrapped around her little finger!!!

I can imagine she's got a lot of growing to do, i'm sure bob only stopped last year! I'd say he's been at his strongest this year, but think madam is more "forward" than my irish (adorable) lump!

Ah bless B, will drop her a text, was ment to be shooting, but didn't do anything in the event as was in a car accident on Thursday eve, vehicleless and sore ;-(
 
He did also say she was a bit of an old bag, :p lol! But I am to leave her with it, as that is just her way of expressing herself ;)

I saw about the crash on FB :( You ok? Bum re. being carless :( :( x next clinic is the 11th, I can't make it as am at Marchington that weekend, but will aim for the one in Jan :)
 
KatB said:
As above really, I know many people who have many fantastic lessons, and an amazing horse, and yet never improve. Some people say this is due to them never having to learn "feel" as they rely on someone to help them, but could it be down to the fact they never LET themselves learn how to feel, as they are mentally needing someone to tell them due to having no self belief?

I started thinking about it, as I had a lesson yesterday with someone who I have had lessons with over the winter for the last 3 years or so. He said he has never seen so much improvement from me, and it wasn't because I was doing anything differently as such, as I've always "had the tools" so to speak, but because I seemed so much more confident and had belief in what I was doing... now nothing has really changed in my riding, and I haven't had any more lessons than before, but I have changed my mentality massively which I thought had just meant I enjoyed it more, but evidently has had a bigger impact.

SO, are people wasting money/time on shed load of lessons if they haven't got the right mentality/mind frame in place?

Not sure if i've got that down how I wanted to, but will be interesting to see replies :)
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Completely agree with you, your own attitude and state of mind is very crucial to performing well and with confidence. I have only been riding 2 years and have a great teacher but something clicked in the last few months, and it was in my head :eek: as you said I have the tools for the job and now believe I can use them :cool:

Kev
 
A lot of good sense on this thread! This is yet another area where there's a lot of parallel between being a musician and a rider: a performance needs committment to be convincing to the audience.

The thing is, often the more thoughtful and intelligent the musician is, the more acutely they are aware that their performance isn't perfect, and as a result of this awareness, it becomes less convincing. This then leads into a cycle of loss of confidence, and is hell to break out of. I tell students that they need to have the courage to make mistakes, and to sound awful, in order to get to the point of consistently sounding great. In musical terms, the main danger is a bit of public humiliation (although it's amazing how worried we can get about sounding bad just in a practice room!).

I suppose in riding terms, the potential effects of a mistake are more physical, so that becomes the block against which to struggle...I know for me, right now, I'm struggling with the fear of my horse's high-speed, unpredictable reactions to relatively ordinary stimuli: I used to be able to laugh it off because of an engrained belief in the solidity of my seat, but having been dumped a few times, I now know that it can be shaken, and as a result, I think I make more mistakes, which in turn shakes my confidence more...The funny thing is, once a dressage test or SJ round has actually started, I just deal with problems like that as a matter of course, because the impulse to get round is so strong. So how do I channel that competitive streak into daily schooling?
 
KatB said:
He did also say she was a bit of an old bag, :p lol! But I am to leave her with it, as that is just her way of expressing herself ;)

I saw about the crash on FB :( You ok? Bum re. being carless :( :( x next clinic is the 11th, I can't make it as am at Marchington that weekend, but will aim for the one in Jan :)
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LOL!! Aren't we all at times! Its how people deal with it that matters!

Yes thanks, thank goodness! Just bored now, off work, no car etc! Cool about the next one, i'll check the date, if not aim for Jan! ;-)
 
I think you're right Kat - your mental approach plays a huge role. I flit between two SJ instructors. No.1 is very technical and no.2 is very pushy. After several bullying sessions (sorry I mean lessons) from no.2, I went back to no. 1. He commented on how I was reacting faster, making better decisions and riding better. I think that because no.2 took the kid gloves off, whacked up the fences and made me get on with it, I realised I could do it. Obviously, it was a judgement call on his part: he'd taught me for a while and knew he could push me at that point. So, whilst no.1 may have given me more technical advice, I think that no.2 made a huge change to my riding by knowing how and when to push me!
 
Yeah agree HotToTrot. That is where getting someone who can act as a bit of a mentor can help hugely, as they know when to push you out of your confort zone, and when to hold back. I've been lucky in the fact I have been having lessons with someone who knows my mare very well, and also has a fantastic way of "coaching" so knows exactly what to do to get the best out of her, and can push me as a result :)
 
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