Hay making experts - how to decide on one or two cuts?

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Polos Mum

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My main hay field is looking really good easily 1 1/2 feet and thick. We've only taken one cut previously at the end of July/ early August.

If I cut it now what are my chances of getting a second cut mid/ late August - I can refertilise if that makes a difference?

We're loosing one of the hay fields this year (some stupid farming rules about not having grass down for more than 4 years or you have to keep it grass forever so the farmer that owns the field has to plough up nicely established grass just for us to reseed it back to grass the next year !)
But it means I'm keen to make as much as possible this year so I have lots in barn!
 
I think it's more likely to get two cuts of silage or haylage cos it's hard to get it dry and mature enough for a second cut of hay without the mornings becoming very dewy and the days too short to dry it if it isn't so mature.

So if it's hay you are after I would go for the first cut when you think it will make the best and most suitable hay, and count any second cut for hay as a bonus crop: I wouldn't throw money at it.

Your farmer chap is right about the subsidies and not wanting it classed as permanent pasture, but I'm sure the key year to do the ploughing up was last year not this for its classification, so hopefully he knows more than me (I just take an interest, we have land and livestock but aren't in SFP subsidy scheme).
 
How about a cut of hay plus a later one of haylage? Not well up on these things, but my thinking is that you could use haylage for the worst months and sell surplus.
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
I think it's more likely to get two cuts of silage or haylage cos it's hard to get it dry and mature enough for a second cut of hay without the mornings becoming very dewy and the days too short to dry it if it isn't so mature.

So if it's hay you are after I would go for the first cut when you think it will make the best and most suitable hay, and count any second cut for hay as a bonus crop: I wouldn't throw money at it.

Your farmer chap is right about the subsidies and not wanting it classed as permanent pasture, but I'm sure the key year to do the ploughing up was last year not this for its classification, so hopefully he knows more than me (I just take an interest, we have land and livestock but aren't in SFP subsidy scheme).
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Very wise too! I'm not in the scheme either. I think murder would be done if I had to put up with the clowns from RPID around here telling me what to do!

So, as we are not in the scheme, does that mean we can plough up to our heart's content??

Re: the OP's question, for bulk, go for two cuts of haylage and get the contractor to put 8 layers of wrap on the bales. Yes, it will be expensive but like having money in the bank. Some areas are still very short of grass. That way, assuming the bales don't get holed and let in air,you can stack it outside, sell it, or it will keep for a few years.

I still have enough haylage here made that way in 2011 which is excellent stuff and should see me through next winter. I shall be selling this year's hay.

But, really, if you want a sensible answer to this sort of question,you need to post your location as the weather and local supply and demand has a lot to do with it.
 
Many thanks all, we are in Lincolnshire - quite horsey but also lots of available hay/ haylage so prices pretty sensible.
We have all our own kit and make our own hay (hence can decide to start this afternoon if needed)
Haylage would only be useful to sell, we don;t have kit to move it around and with only 2 horses I'm not sure I'd go through a bale before it went off - even in winter, and I've not heard great things about contractors for small acreage.

I might have the years wrong on the ploughing - but it's certainly this year it's got to be ploughed - sadly.

Will the hay carry on getting thicker and thicker if we leave it or will we make virtually the same now as we will in six weeks time? There are a couple of fields we could make now and then have more to graze later on - if the weather doesn't hold enough for a second cut.
 
I suspect you might not get a second cut anyway - if you wait until the grass has flowered and begun to seed (for the best feed value and thickness at the base) you might struggle to get it to more than silage (leaf) stage again before autumn, everything is so late this year. To get a second cut you would be needing to cut in the next three weeks or so first time - is it in flower yet? Mine is only just starting, it is so late this year, but yours might be a couple of weeks ahead, the ground was still cold here until very recently.
The only people I have ever known get a good second cut round here are those who have spent a fortune on fertilizer in March to force it on - did yours get fertilised?
Much depends on the weather - who knows whether we will get 5 good drying days this month anyway! You might just about manage it with haylage, less need for seed in it and less time needed to make it well.

MTA sorry just saw your question about leaving it a few weeks - you will get much more thickness at the base and probably almost twice as many bales per acre - do it now while it is thin on the ground and you will just have double the mowing, haybobbing and baling costs for the same amount - it will dry quicker though. If you have your own kit, why not watch what all the other farmers in your area are doing and get stuck in as soon as they have started? They usually know a thing or two ;)
 
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We start taking our first cut in the next week or so depending on the weather. Our hay meadows are about 2 and a half foot high right now and very thick and we want to cut before the fields go to seed. The fields with alfalfa in them have to wait until the alfalfa is 1/10 in bloom so they will probably not be cut until nearer the end of June. Our second cut on all fields won't be till around August. I live in a hot country though so drying of hay is much easier than in the UK. Dairy farmers in my area take 5 or 6 cuts off their fields per year but they are often growing pure alfalfa so as it's a far more bulky crop it gives them decent returns. For us who grow just an alfalfa/grass mix it isn't worth the diesel to take more than 2 cuts per year.
 
JillA - your right it was late to get started - maybe this isn;t the year for two cuts.

We did fertilise and some species are flowering already - some not yet.

We are forecast good weather here for the next week or so - hence my pondering. It will be just my luck that I'll leave it and then it'll rain the whole of July and August - ahh the joys of haymaking !!

Spying on local farmers is my usual method! but they only get one cut , if I could order an indian summer (nice sunny Sept) that would make the decision easier
 
Just to answer your question about open bales. I bought the 250 kilo bales last April, so 2011 cut. It was sold as dry haylage to me. I figured that at 20 per bale it was okay if I had to throw half of it each time, but with only 2 exmoor ponies going at it, it isn't going off. As I say, though, it was made very dry.
 
Thanks Fransurrey, I'd guess though that the difference between very dry haylage and hay is only a day or two - so if I can get it dry enough to last it may as well be hay.

I guess if I was good enough at predicting weather in late Aug/ Sept accurately I wouldn't need to worry about making my own hay - ha ha ! I'd be rich from selling my skills.
 
Dry Rot said:
Very wise too! I'm not in the scheme either. I think murder would be done if I had to put up with the clowns from RPID around here telling me what to do!

So, as we are not in the scheme, does that mean we can plough up to our heart's content??
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No, if it's been there a long time....

This relates to England I think but as its EU stuff will probably be right for Scotland also.
http://www.madeleys.co.uk/2011/10/ploughing-permanent-pasture-do-i-need-permission/

Having said that if you aren't in a scheme, there aren't cross compliance penalties and you are no doubt doing your bit with PP elsewhere on the farm so....slowly catches monkey maybe?
 
I'm no expert but I would cut now then whatever the quality/condition is for the second cut would be a bonus. Either as haylage or a poorer quality hay that could be soaked or sold for good doers or laminitics.


The fields around my house were cut on Friday. They are hoping for a decent second cut.
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
No, if it's been there a long time....

This relates to England I think but as its EU stuff will probably be right for Scotland also.
http://www.madeleys.co.uk/2011/10/ploughing-permanent-pasture-do-i-need-permission/

Having said that if you aren't in a scheme, there aren't cross compliance penalties and you are no doubt doing your bit with PP elsewhere on the farm so....slowly catches monkey maybe?
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Yes, I tend to ignore RPID these days! They really are hopeless.

They admitted there was a "serious infestation" of ragwort on a 4 acre plot up wind of me. The first year they "did not have time'' to do anything about it. The second year, the occupier would not accept a recorded letter so no notice was served. (They could legally have affixed it to the premises!). The third year, they did serve the notice but the occupier did nothing. Fourth year is this year.... There's more, but you get the idea!:rolleyes: I doubt if they'd notice a bit of ploughing.
 
blucanoo1990 said:
I'm no expert but I would cut now then whatever the quality/condition is for the second cut would be a bonus. Either as haylage or a poorer quality hay that could be soaked or sold for good doers or laminitics.


The fields around my house were cut on Friday. They are hoping for a decent second cut.
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I'll make a point of having a good drive round tomorrow, some locals have been made already as I've seen fresh cut hay advertised locally - a couple of third generation locals who I trust I'll have a spy on!!
 
Broadly, we shut fields of youngish grass up around Christmas, then apply fertiliser when growth starts in the spring for hay. If you cut early, you should get hay with higher protein but more sap so it is harder to make but better quality. If you leave it later, you get more bulk, it is less sappy, so easier to make with more carbohydrate and less protein. Leave it too late and you would be better feeding straw.

If you put more fertiliser on after a cut of hay/haylage you get more growth (aftermath) which is usually grazed off or cut for more haylage.

Old grass is slower to start growing in the spring. I've seen hay made in September up here (North of Scotland). It can be done. We are pretty good at making hay and I think probably better than folk further south -- we have to be! It is not unusual for us to cut when rain is forecast as it will be left in the swathe until there is a fine spell. It comes to little harm being left like that as the stems still take up moisture from the ground and it doesn't rot. It will still make hay even with the aftermath growing through it! But once it is turned up, it needs to be kept moving or it will rot.

Hay making is more art and luck than science! Frustrating but also very satisfying.
 
Thanks Dry Rot, this field hasn't been grazed since October and had fertiliser end March, and was newly seeded 6 years ago when we moved in (barley crop when we bought it!).
I actually prefer less rich hay - mine don't do enough work to justify rich food

If it wasn;t for the fact we're loosing 300 bales worth of hay making field this year I'd be more than happy to cut a bit later and just have the one. - Like you say definitely an art and everyone wants something different!
 
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