Hay steam

ILuvCowparsely

ILuvCowparsely

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ok need some info as in my day we scalded the hay with kettles and a bin.


Do you find hay steamers work with horses with dust issues EAD

Questions

1 Is there a make to avoid as cheap etc
2 Is haygain worth the money
3 are they expensive to run
4 is it worth the expensive over wetting/soaking hay
5 which one do you recomend
6 are they reliable mechanics wise, don't want one which fails
7 why do people sell them if they are good




TIA
 
I'm asthmatic, and a dusty batch of hay can leave me quite unwell. I'm also allergic to hay, so a great combination. So I bought a Haygain for me rather than the horses! It works brilliantly. Although I've never noticed my horses having respiratory issues, I did notice this week that a couple were coughing yesterday - could be coincidence but Wednesday night their hay wasn't steamed.
I only have a Haygain so can't answer all of your questions; sorry.


Steamed and soaking achieve different things, so it depends on your aim? Some people do both.


For me, I picked Haygain over a home made solution as I was concerned about the risks of making my own; how a kettle in a dustbin doesn't keep the temperature high enough for long enough; I wanted a warranty if it broke and I knew it would sell on if I didn't like it. As to why people sell them... All sorts of reasons, I guess?! Don't like them? (They are time consuming). Lose the horse they were bought for? Move yard? Switch onto haylage? (You can steam haylage but I guess a lot of people don't). Want to upgrade? I wish I'd bought a bigger one now but it was an awful lot of money on a punt so I bought the small one. I'm tempted to either buy another the same size or sell this one and just buy a bigger one.

Not sure on exact price to run but they're essentially giant kettles running for an hour, so whilst I doubt they make a massive dent in our bill overall, they also won't be dirt cheap.
 
Out of curiosity, I've just checked tonight's electricity. For the period the steamer was running, we averaged 3.95kW and the peak was 5.04kW. Not much else was going on then, probably only a computer and a couple of household lights (was 0.66kW before I switched the steamer on).
 
NLPM said:
Out of curiosity, I've just checked tonight's electricity. For the period the steamer was running, we averaged 3.95kW and the peak was 5.04kW. Not much else was going on then, probably only a computer and a couple of household lights (was 0.66kW before I switched the steamer on).
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Fact. you have to put in a lot of energy to steam effectively. 3 to 5 kwh sounds about right. cost about 80 pence an hour . My horse is worth that to me. I confess i am seriously ott about hay . I have been a hay merchant for many years. well made hay does not create alergies and lead to copd. So why do people feed crap hay . Once you have sensetised your horse to the moulds in hay ,you have an ongoing problem. Hay steamers are a good answer to poor management.
 
I find it great. Mine gets sinusitis from dry hay over the winter. I usually give him haylege to prevent this. Unfortunately that wasn't possible this year so I set up a contraption with a wheelie bin and a wallpaper steamer. You just put water in the steamer, turn it on and it's done in about 40 mins. It's not as convenient as haylege but it does the trick. It also smells lovely and seems to be really tasty.
 
mule said:
I find it great. Mine gets sinusitis from dry hay over the winter. I usually give him haylege to prevent this. Unfortunately that wasn't possible this year so I set up a contraption with a wheelie bin and a wallpaper steamer. You just put water in the steamer, turn it on and it's done in about 40 mins. It's not as convenient as haylege but it does the trick. It also smells lovely and seems to be really tasty.
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Mule I just love the hands on ,get it done ,attitude . Bob the notacob has you down as one of the places to run away to if I seriously upset him.
 
Bob notacob said:
Hay steamers are a good answer to poor management.
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Sweeping generalization there and pretty contradictory. People who have poor management don't get vets and don't buy expensive steamers. Do people have asthma because their parents/care givers didnt look after them properly? I think not.

Even the best quality hay contains dust spores.

I chose a haygain because of the temperatures that it can reach safely having been designed and built for that purpose. I'm sure it was @TGM who had worked out the cost of running it. I think it was around 20-60p an hour.

I bought a second hand haygain. The reason that it was being sold was because it was their "travelling" unit for shows but their son had gone to Germany to work so they no longer needed it as had another one at home. I have the HG600 version.

My horse has asthma but all 3 are on the same management with steamed hay, dust extracted bedding and as much turnout as possible. We have internal monarch stables so they are airy and the shed is a ventilated shed. Asthma horse also gets a supplement and so far we've managed to avoid needing steroids. He gets an annual check up and would see the vet more regularly if required.

Touch wood that since diagnosis the management changes has been sufficient to keep him happy and healthy.

He developed asthma after catching a virus from 3 coughing livery horses. The owners did not get their vets and left their horses coughing up gunk and the YO couldn't have cared less let alone make them get a vet. We were waiting to move to my parents new place so were stuck there. First sign of my horse being off colour and the vet was out, scoped, took samples and medicated. Poor management and neglect was at play but not on my behalf.
 
My big horse has just been diagnosed with a dust (among many others) allergy so we’ve bought a steamer - nothing to do with poor management, he’s just extremely sensitive.

will be interesting to see what the running costs are like when we get it up and running...

We picked the haygain for the double skin inside, and went for the largest one so we have the option of steaming hay for the entire yard.
 
Bob notacob said:
cost about 80 pence an hour
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I can live with that. My horses are worth that, plus if I can keep myself out of hospital then it saves the NHS a lot of money too.


Bob notacob said:
I have been a hay merchant for many years. well made hay does not create alergies and lead to copd. So why do people feed crap hay . Once you have sensetised your horse to the moulds in hay ,you have an ongoing problem. Hay steamers are a good answer to poor management.
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Whilst I agree with your last sentence for a lot of things on the market, I think the financial and time costs of the Haygain probably mean your generalisation is unlikely to be true for the vast majority of owners with steamers. I still buy the nicest hay I can find, and obviously 'poor management' is not something anyone aspires to. However, I buy 100 bales a year and after a few months of storage in a wooden barn (off the floor) it gets dry. If you have storage suggestions to avoid this, I'd be genuinely interested in hearing them and taking them on board.
 
NLPM said:
Out of curiosity, I've just checked tonight's electricity. For the period the steamer was running, we averaged 3.95kW and the peak was 5.04kW. Not much else was going on then, probably only a computer and a couple of household lights (was 0.66kW before I switched the steamer on).
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these steamers are i effect a big kettle............if you put you kettle on it should do a large spike as well.
 
hollyandivy123 said:
these steamers are i effect a big kettle............if you put you kettle on it should do a large spike as well.
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Agreed:

NLPM said:
they're essentially giant kettles running for an hour
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I just looked up what the spike was as OP asked about running costs - I thought having a rough idea of how much electricity was used might help them calculate running costs on their own tariffs (plus it's not actually something I've looked at before, so was curious).

ETA as its plug has a 13amp fuse and pulls power from a normal 3 pin plug, it can't run on more than 3.1kW - it looks like it is close to that for most of the time it's running. On our tariffs (15p kWh) that works out under 45p.
 
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Bob notacob said:
I confess i am seriously ott about hay . I have been a hay merchant for many years. well made hay does not create alergies and lead to copd. So why do people feed crap hay . Once you have sensetised your horse to the moulds in hay ,you have an ongoing problem. Hay steamers are a good answer to poor management.
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I'm sure you could get more judgemental if you tried BnaC.

All hay contains dust and mould spores.
There are some years when it's impossible to make hay well.
Most people in livery don't have much control over the source of their hay.
Asthma is on the rise in humans and horses and not related to their food.

The only horse I have been closely involved with which was on inhalers had been fed since three years old with hay from the most reputable dealer in the county by the most careful (to the point of OCD) owner in county. Their purchase of a Haygain was not in any way due to poor management of that horse.


.
 
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I have the Haygain one, it has a 1.5kw steamer. I worked out the running costs when I bought it 2 years ago (it was a Black Friday deal), it was 20p per 60 mins cycle. It’s a brilliant piece of kit. My hay is very well made (it’s off our own field) but all dry hay has fungal spores in which can irritate sensitive horses. I run the Haygain at least once most days, it’s never let me down. The horses love their steamed hay, and it helps my asthma as I don’t have to shake dry hay out.

Haygain have put their money into the research.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1144/4268/files/All_Research_papers.pdf?13150131510427622394
 
Bob notacob said:
Fact. you have to put in a lot of energy to steam effectively. 3 to 5 kwh sounds about right. cost about 80 pence an hour . My horse is worth that to me. I confess i am seriously ott about hay . I have been a hay merchant for many years. well made hay does not create alergies and lead to copd. So why do people feed crap hay . Once you have sensetised your horse to the moulds in hay ,you have an ongoing problem. Hay steamers are a good answer to poor management.
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Strange reply, when the storage of hay is often where dust particles come from, apart from the making of it. How many people or feed merchants have a 100% dust free storage for hay. How do you desensitize them to dust, when it is not just hay they come allergic to?? Dust in the arena, grass cuttings, pollens, mould, the best hay in the world can get dusty, through storage or being cut low to the ground. Same with shavings, Hunter supposed to be dust free or low dust but when you break it up it happens.


Never found 1 hay seller in 40 odd years which doesn't have a degree of dust when you shake it up or place in haynet
 
I’ve used a hay gain and they are brilliant. We steamed for about an hour to get an even result. (It was a bale steamer)
I’d imagine the smaller ones would be ok with less time being looser so easier to steam.
I have a bag travel type and that’s also good but just no where near big enough for my needs sadly. My only comment against buying would be in your case if your buying mainly for your asthma bear in mind you still have to fill nets and handle the dry hay in preparation to steam. It’s probably that initial part that will effect you most isn’t it?
 
dorsetladette said:
I'm a hay scalder - chaff bag full of hay, kettle of boiling water and a piece of baling twine.

I don't believe expensive gadgets are always the best.
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Have a read of the document that TP linked above. There are plenty of studies that show it's a whole load better in terms of reducing microbes in hay than a home made steamer (and much much better than throwing a kettle on).

My horses love steamed hay, I had a DIY version at a previous yard but current place has neither the space for one nor the inclination to let DIYs use any more electricity than absolutely necessary! I feed haylage, OH makes it and it's pretty decent though I would still love a haygain.
 
Ok seems like Haygain are worth the money, its for my 16.1hh ID mare only so what size would be best based on her having 4 sections a night divided into two nets. She in the summer was diagnosed with Inflammatory Equine airways disease. gone through vet treatment but want to reduce tit happening again, the pony has asthma but she is on haylage and is maintained that way but the mare eats like a horse and would go through too much haylage.
 
If you are just scalding/warming your hay up a bit you are likely just providing the ideal conditions for spore activation>vegetative cells>bacterial growth/multiplication.

As such I definitely believe tested gadgets are the best in this scenario.

ester, PhD (spore forming bacteria a speciality ;):p, less good with fungal :p)
 
I’d say the half bale option would be ok?
IMO kettles are absolutely useless. The hay is totally and completely different out of a proper steamer
 
OH made a steamer. Huge wheelie bin with hose into low down on the side. Upturned metal basket in base to lift hay out of water. Insulated the lid with silver underfloor heating stuff wrapped in a huge feed bag. Wheelie bin housed in a made to measure insulated cabinet.
We bought a heavy duty steamer and a timer and run it for about 1 1/4 hours for up to a bale in 2 nets. There is residual water in the bottom which needs to be emptied but if the hay is loosened every bit is soft, very hot and damp.
I am sure the ‘proper’ ones are more efficient but it works fine for us.
 
milliepops said:
Have a read of the document that TP linked above. There are plenty of studies that show it's a whole load better in terms of reducing microbes in hay than a home made steamer (and much much better than throwing a kettle on).

My horses love steamed hay, I had a DIY version at a previous yard but current place has neither the space for one nor the inclination to let DIYs use any more electricity than absolutely necessary! I feed haylage, OH makes it and it's pretty decent though I would still love a haygain.
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I feel terribly lazy after reading this

12. The effect of five different wetting treatments on the water soluble carbohydrate content and microbial concentration in hay for horses.
Soaking hay for 9 hours followed by steaming for 50 minutes in the HG steamer was the most effective method for reducing both WSC and microbial contamination in hay
 
I have the body of an old Happy Horse steamer and I use an Earlex professional wallpaper stripper - the big black units not the little plastic ones. It works incredibly well. We steam our hay for about an hour and it costs roughly £1 each time which in the grand scheme of things isn't massive. I've used this for about 5 years.

However, we are thinking next year we might just have haylage simply because we can store it outside and also it doesn't take the time to be steamed.
 
carolineb said:
I have the body of an old Happy Horse steamer and I use an Earlex professional wallpaper stripper - the big black units not the little plastic ones. It works incredibly well. We steam our hay for about an hour and it costs roughly £1 each time which in the grand scheme of things isn't massive. I've used this for about 5 years.

However, we are thinking next year we might just have haylage simply because we can store it outside and also it doesn't take the time to be steamed.
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Oops just seen you’re post!
 
OP, for one horse the Haygain One should be fine. Even my greedy 16.1hh IDx mare can’t guzzle overnight all the hay that fits into it. It’s easy to run a second cycle if you occasionally need more hay.
Additionally, being portable, you can bring it plus the steamer unit indoors so they doesn’t freeze up if the air temp gets very low, say -5c. Though even I don’t actually steam the hay in my kitchen :D.
215D10DC-46E8-4E5B-B007-31221083C45D.jpeg
The research literature is interesting and informative, though I only read it after I’d bought my Haygain, oops. For an effective diy steamer, you need manifold spikes similar to the Haygain so that the steam efficiently penetrates the hay and raises the temperature to a high enough level to kill all the bugs and spores, rather than providing them with a growth medium.
 
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