Haylage question

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lg1982

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Hi sorry if this sound really stupid just need some advice.
We have 2 jumping pony for my daughter. Iv just moved to a new yard all hay has to be bought of yard owner witch I'm used so not a problem . The thing is the hay quality is very poor and its £6 a bale I go through about 5 bales that with 2 ponies out all day. So I was thinking of changing to haylage as u can buy that in yourself.
Someone suggested to me to buy big haylage and open it and let it dry out abit. Would that be safe to do . The thing is I don't mind paying £6 a bale of hay if its good quality.
Also worried about laminitis if I change ponies on to haylage.
Any advice would be great
 
For six pounds a bale I can buy small bagged specialist high fibre haylage (Mole Valley's own brand.) My lamintic prone is fine on it. I think large bale haylage will probably go off before you can use it all, so you may end up with a lot of wastage. I'd rather use the haylage than poor quality hay.
 
Big bale haylage increases the risk of botulism. Botulism spores cannot be seen, so the haylage can look ok but cause problems.
You need to use it within about 4-5 days of opening it to be safe, so i would calculate how much they will eat compared to how much is in the bale (or perhaps you could share a bale with more people). It has a higher calorie level than hay, so you will be need to calculate for less being fed. Note that they will also eat it faster, so if stabled a lot then this can increase boredom and the problems associated with that.
Low nutrition hay is fine for many ponies (as stops them getting overweight), and you could also give added energy by hard feed if needed. However, if by poor quality you mean that it is dusty or mouldy then you are right to look for an alternative.
 
wkiwi said:
Big bale haylage increases the risk of botulism. Botulism spores cannot be seen, so the haylage can look ok but cause problems.
You need to use it within about 4-5 days of opening it to be safe, so i would calculate how much they will eat compared to how much is in the bale (or perhaps you could share a bale with more people). It has a higher calorie level than hay, so you will be need to calculate for less being fed. Note that they will also eat it faster, so if stabled a lot then this can increase boredom and the problems associated with that.
Low nutrition hay is fine for many ponies (as stops them getting overweight), and you could also give added energy by hard feed if needed. However, if by poor quality you mean that it is dusty or mouldy then you are right to look for an alternative.
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Out of interest why do you think big bale haylage would increase the risk of botulism?

Small bale haylage is made in one of two ways

- grass is cut, wilted and baled into small bales and then wrapped straight away.
- grass is cut, wilted and then baled into big bales and wrapped straight away. Later in the winter it is then processed into small bales through a repackaging machine.


Botulism is a concern when feeding haylage but the clostridium botulinum organism tends to proliferate in very wet haylage.
Clostridia are bacteria which live in the soil and may contaminate the haylage crop via close cutting or from mud splashing or from deceased animals.

However, haylage with a dry matter above 50% is too dry for clostridia to multiply so there should be no problems with botulism as long as you buy from a reputable supplier who knows what they are doing :)
 
Big bale haylage would deteriorate once it is open, and the more moist it is the quicker the deterioration (mould etc which doesn't grow in the airless conditions inside the wrap but once the air gets to it does). If you are feeding two on a big bale I would think it might last, if it is pretty dry to begin with. If it has a high moisture content you will throw a lot away. The best way is to open one end and use a slice at a time, keeping the others tight to minimise air getting in - if you open it and spread it out it won't dry but go white and manky.

(As I understand it botulism comes from the soil so is mainly a problem when it is mowed very short or there are mole hills under the crop? In 18 years I never had any problems from it, I think silage is more prone to it)
 
haylage said:
Out of interest why do you think big bale haylage would increase the risk of botulism?

S)
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Big bale is more likely to have a higher moisture content in the middle than small bale, i.e. because of its size the bale is more likely to be uneven in %DM. Also, takes longer to feed out if not many horses, so the packaging will be open for longer - not a problem on large yards, but not so good if there is only 1-2 horses.
Agree that a reputable supplier should mean no problems.
 
JillA said:
Big bale haylage would deteriorate once it is open, and the more moist it is the quicker the deterioration (mould etc which doesn't grow in the airless conditions inside the wrap but once the air gets to it does). If you are feeding two on a big bale I would think it might last, if it is pretty dry to begin with. If it has a high moisture content you will throw a lot away. The best way is to open one end and use a slice at a time, keeping the others tight to minimise air getting in - if you open it and spread it out it won't dry but go white and manky.

(As I understand it botulism comes from the soil so is mainly a problem when it is mowed very short or there are mole hills under the crop? In 18 years I never had any problems from it, I think silage is more prone to it)
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Yes I would agree with you that a big bale of haylage needs a minimum of 2 / 3 horses to get through it before it starts to deteriorate depending on how big the bales are.

Regarding leaving the wrap on, we actually recommend the opposite - to fully take the wrap off once it has been opened. We have done extensive tests in both warm and cool conditions, sending samples off for microbial testing each day, and the bales that were fully unwrapped remained free of harmful bacteria for longer.
I guess it's a bit like trying to run with a plastic mac on - the bale will sweat on the inside and condensation can form.

A good way to test for a microbialy 'clean' haylage is to see how long it lasts once it has been opened. If it starts to go off within a couple of days you can assume there was already a lot of microbe activity. If it last 5-10 days or more before going off, there was much less microbial activity there in the first place and hence better for the horse.

Botulism does indeed come from soil contamination. Soil naturally contains botulism spores which are harmless but very difficult to kill. In the right conditions the botulism spores can turn into vegetitive botulism cells that become dangerous if they can multiply a lot and produce toxins.

The best way of avoiding botulism is to make sure the soil particles never get into the bales in the first place. This is done by taking care when cutting and tedding / raking, and ensuring any animals that get hit by the mowers are fully removed from the field not just mixed in.

Botulism require a high moisture content, and is unable to grow when the dry matter content is 40-50% or more. So by aiming for 65% dry matter you are covering yourself.

The final way of preventing bottulism is ensuring that the pH of the bake rapidly becomes acidic, at around 4.5-5.5. Botulism bacteria cannot grow in acidic conditions. If the haylage is bales very dry it is sometimes necessary to use an additive to ensure the pH drop sufficiently and that the fermentation process can take place.

Silage is not normally a problem because the conditions are much more acidic, but there have been some high profile cases where entire dairy herds have been wiped out by feeding silage from a contaminated clamp.
 
wkiwi said:
Big bale is more likely to have a higher moisture content in the middle than small bale, i.e. because of its size the bale is more likely to be uneven in %DM. Also, takes longer to feed out if not many horses, so the packaging will be open for longer - not a problem on large yards, but not so good if there is only 1-2 horses.
Agree that a reputable supplier should mean no problems.
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I'm not sure that I would agree with your first sentence as a big bale producer myself ;)

The evenness of the dry matter is not really anything to do with the size of the bale. It's more a matter of having even grass growth in the field and ensuring it is well tedded to get it evenly dry as quickly as possible.
Most small pack haylage is first produced into big bales anyway and stored like that for 6 months or so.

The length a bale is open will also have no effect on botulism because the botulism bacteria will multiply in an oxygen free environment. Since the bottulism doesn't necessarily have any visual signs within the bale, you won't know the bale is contaminated.
 
haylage said:
Regarding leaving the wrap on, we actually recommend the opposite - to fully take the wrap off once it has been opened. We have done extensive tests in both warm and cool conditions, sending samples off for microbial testing each day, and the bales that were fully unwrapped remained free of harmful bacteria for longer.
I guess it's a bit like trying to run with a plastic mac on - the bale will sweat on the inside and condensation can form.

.
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When I first began using it 18 years ago I did that - opened one and transported it into a spare stable slice by slice. They all went musty within a few days. Nowadays I use it as described and the only time I get any mould inside the wrap is if there have been punctures in the wrap and moisture has got in. Experience vs science............hmmmm
 
haylage said:
I'm not sure that I would agree with your first sentence as a big bale producer myself ;)
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Entirely correct, I shouldn't write things without proof reading to make sure it is what it says. Good producers (and it seems there are a lot more that know what they are doing in UK compared to some of the things i have read about needing vacc in US) do the process properly anyway. Although, I have read that there is research showing that clostridia can multiply even in well made haylage between packaging and feeding out, believed to be due to various strains of clostridia and/or yeast invasion (damaged packaging?).
For those that don't make it properly, I am sure i read somewhere that the inside of the large bales (if poorly made) ends up with higher moisture and has more problems achieving a rapid pH drop (low water-soluble carb's) so more likely for botulism to occur when the horse is eating the inside part of the bale. My memory could be at fault on this though, as i did a quick search and can't find the reference again.
Also, it would seem that it is easier to fermentation process and storage in the smaller bales, plus people more likely to throw out a small bale if packaging damaged, which iswhy there is more risk in large.
 
We always use colehay, have had both hay and haylage from them. The hay comes on a pallet of 40 bales and works out at £6.10 per bale delivered, it's really lovely meadow hay too. Haylage is a bit more expensive at £7.10 for 40 delivered but again is good stuff. they have a website so look them up or their number is 01837 849222 :)
 
katherine123 said:
We always use colehay, have had both hay and haylage from them. The hay comes on a pallet of 40 bales and works out at £6.10 per bale delivered, it's really lovely meadow hay too. Haylage is a bit more expensive at £7.10 for 40 delivered but again is good stuff. they have a website so look them up or their number is 01837 849222 :)
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I take it you work for them?
 
Ha ha, should do shouldn't I? No, I had them recommended to me when our supplier let us down and have used them ever since. I prefer to use someone who has been recommended as it's a lot of money to spend and you can never be sure :)
 
Why don't you buy some small bales and mix it with the not so good hay I used to do this when we were forced to buy rubbish yo hay at top price, you also used to be able to buy the large rectangle bales of Haylage smaller than the rounds but bigger than the really small ones not sure it you can get hold of them now.
 
haylage said:
Regarding leaving the wrap on, we actually recommend the opposite - to fully take the wrap off once it has been opened. .
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From trial and error, this is what I do now too, we have the 4 foot long bales. I don't mind if it 'dries out' a bit more as it gets to the end, it's still very clean and the horses seem to enjoy it just as much but when we opened one end only, took some out, covered it up again, it went 'off' quite quickly, far quicker than I could use it and that was with 8 horses in.
 
When you say the hay quality is poor, what exactly is wrong with it? Is it mouldy? And have you delicately mentioned it to the YO?
I was previously at a yard where they included hay and straw bedding in the cost. Both were dusty and slices were often solid, stuck together like cardboard with black and white patches of mould. The thing is, the YO bought it in but didn't actually ever look at it as they had staff who did all the hay nets, so they didn't know it was manky unless someone said something. In which case, they'd take a look and agree to disposing of the bale in question. I'd say something if it's mouldy as it's not safe for the ponies and not fair to be forced to buy something that's mouldy.
However if it's simply a case of not being as sweet smelling as you'd like, I'd do as pinkyboots suggests and buy a small bale of haylage to mix with the hay.
 
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