HC Tv, parelli foal training

I just cannot process what I have just watched. The foal was no more than 10 days old. It is trussed up like an oven ready chicken, a rope around its middle and threaded back through the front legs and then through a knotted rope halter.

Somebody tell me why.
 
Foals are full faculty learners. Totally different to dogs, cats, monkeys and people.
Putting a rope round in a figure of 8, I presume that's what they were doing allows you to move the foal by in effect pushing from behind without just putting a head collar on and pulling it about, as often happens. Foals quickly get the idea in minutes, if you get it right, then they lead about like veterans. Dead easy, quick and fairly stressless. Parelli does teach this, but it is in fact old western way of getting foals nice and gentle. It works a treat on weanlings as well which is handy if you get a foal at six months.
 
Pale Rider said:
Foals are full faculty learners. Totally different to dogs, cats, monkeys and people.
Putting a rope round in a figure of 8, I presume that's what they were doing allows you to move the foal by in effect pushing from behind without just putting a head collar on and pulling it about, as often happens. Foals quickly get the idea in minutes, if you get it right, then they lead about like veterans. Dead easy, quick and fairly stressless. Parelli does teach this, but it is in fact old western way of getting foals nice and gentle. It works a treat on weanlings as well which is handy if you get a foal at six months.
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This is the problem I have with encouraging people, who may not have the necessary skills, to mess about with stuff they've seen on TV and get the impression is "dead easy". It may be dead easy to do, but it is also dead easy to get wrong.
 
Foals are quick learners. They don't need too much time to learn the basics. Going overboard and too much time spent on foals can be detrimental. Let them be babies. The normal non abusive common sense approach works for my lot.

Terri
 
Which leads to the question... What advantage(s) are handling a foal like this at such an early stage supposed to bring over conventional (lighter-touch, less hurried) approaches?
 
fburton said:
This is the problem I have with encouraging people, who may not have the necessary skills, to mess about with stuff they've seen on TV and get the impression is "dead easy". It may be dead easy to do, but it is also dead easy to get wrong.
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We have bred lots of foals over the years, and bought lots of weanlings, I am used to all this stuff and find it 'dead easy'. It's no good getting precious over foals, anyone can breed anything they like, people often do and make a pigs ear out of it. Then you've got the other lot who can't even see how bad they are, lol. You only have to read this forum to realize half the folk on it struggle with horses anyway.

Everything about horses is dead easy to get wrong, (most do judging by this forum), as they don't have the necessary skills. Anyway, if seeing these things on TV encourages folk to go out and aquire these skills, all well and good.:)
 
Well call me wrong, I teach my youngsters to lead on a figure of 8 rope from birth. Before I ever put a head collar on. I find they learn a lot easier than a standard headcollar and preassure, and it stops them pulling back and possibly damaging their neck.
I put things round their girth line.
I pick their feet up as soon as they are able, touch them all over
I put rugs on them
lead them over all sorts of spooky things, tie flappy things to the fence.
All without stressing them
I get a lot of compliments on how easy my babies are, they are not scared of people or stressed, and often as witnessed by people come up.
I spend a lot of time just being there, offering lovings, maybe sitting with them when they lay down, and generally being no threatening.
But yes, I insist on manners even for the lovings, politness.
And I do no more than 10 mins at a time, as I believe parelli wouldnt.
 
elijahasgal said:
Well call me wrong, I teach my youngsters to lead on a figure of 8 rope from birth. Before I ever put a head collar on. I find they learn a lot easier than a standard headcollar and preassure, and it stops them pulling back and possibly damaging their neck.
I put things round their girth line.
I pick their feet up as soon as they are able, touch them all over
I put rugs on them
lead them over all sorts of spooky things, tie flappy things to the fence.
All without stressing them
I get a lot of compliments on how easy my babies are, they are not scared of people or stressed, and often as witnessed by people come up.
I spend a lot of time just being there, offering lovings, maybe sitting with them when they lay down, and generally being no threatening.
But yes, I insist on manners even for the lovings, politness.
And I do no more than 10 mins at a time, as I believe parelli wouldnt.
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Nice.:)
 
The foal on the programme was not being handled using a figure of 8 rope.

It had a rope around it's barrel, with a line up through the forelimb, underside of it's neck, then threaded through a knotted rope headcollar.

I totally agree that foals should be handled appropriately, my own foal, now rising 2 was handled using a soft figure of 8 rope and was taught to be mannerly and polite from the word go. This paid off big time when she had to have a front foot shaped every 2 weeks and do exercises from the age of eight weeks.
 
Agh... So what. Not your foal they're messing with.

If people want to play with foals let them...
 
Is there a link to this site? cant believe all these rope arrangements are safe or necessary for a young foal? or the 'Imprint ' stuff . have now stopped breeding , but our foals led as very young foals , often just with a stable rubber, then once used to that had a summer of zero handing. They dont forget , and when needed would be good to deal with. Also, always 'cuddled' foals around girth area occasionaly , just to get used to slight constraint there. All old fashioned stuff I would think
- why do they[ Parelli, I H , whatever ,take your pick a) have to make things complicated b) pretend new/their ways are the only answer?
 
I headcollared my foals within hours of birth , lead them from the start using a folded towel round the bum to help.
Indroduced them very young to the concept of being tied up handled legs and feet and touched them all over , perhaps people think this too much but it was my experiance if you did this within the first ten days it was done then I just could enjoy their mums enjoying them .
 
cornbrodolly said:
- why do they[ Parelli, I H , whatever ,take your pick a) have to make things complicated b) pretend new/their ways are the only answer?
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They don't pretend..... they know, that to *some* people, it's the ONLY way!!

Which is why the rest of us sigh and move on.

:D:D:D:D:D
 
'Imprint training' is controversial. (Personally, I hate it.)

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/20...impact-of-human-intervention-on-foal-behavior
http://www.horsesandpeople.com.au/article/foal-imprinting-or-it

Robert Miller's response:

http://www.robertmmiller.com/drmire.html

from which I quote this:

"I always advise that if the handling is not going to be done by people who have studied my method and who understand it, then it is better not to do it at all."

Well, at least we agree on that point.
 
tallyho! said:
Agh... So what. Not your foal they're messing with.

If people want to play with foals let them...
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So if I wanted to stick my finger in a filly foal's every orifice, you'd be happy with that? Not that I would; I hate Miller's 'imprint training'. But it would be my foal I'm messing with, after all. Or does 'play' not extend to that? Where do you draw the line?
 
To start, I don't pretend or even think my way is the only way and I am not a training or foal expert.

Personally I don't like all this messing with foals. It is easy to train/get a foal used to the basics using the mare in her day to day care. I think more problems are likely to be created by all this messing. Horses are at our mercy all their lives my view is let them be babies at least.

Sticking fingers in orifices is barbaric unless medically required.
 
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Leaving aside the names involved what interests me is that the approach and others like it - esp. the orifices stuff!! sounds like it makes the foal pretty subservient.

Although you need to be able to do all sorts to horses, surely occasionally you should ask permission. It shows a lack of respect otherwise - which sounds a bit fluffy and I apologise, but it's easy to get foals to be easy to handle, especially if the mare is good also, and surely all you need to do is get them happy to be touched all over, pick up feet, catch, lead and go on the lorry etc - willingly. Why the neccessity to truss them up like a chicken and stick your fingers up their bum.
 
siennamum said:
Leaving aside the names involved what interests me is that the approach and others like it - esp. the orifices stuff!! sounds like it makes the foal pretty subservient.

Although you need to be able to do all sorts to horses, surely occasionally you should ask permission. It shows a lack of respect otherwise - which sounds a bit fluffy and I apologise, but it's easy to get foals to be easy to handle, especially if the mare is good also, and surely all you need to do is get them happy to be touched all over, pick up feet, catch, lead and go on the lorry etc - willingly. Why the neccessity to truss them up like a chicken and stick your fingers up their bum.
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I think making them subservient, feel they mustn't/can't resist anything is the aim. :(

I agree with the ask permission suggestion to. I don't think we do this enough with horses in general. Doesn't sound fluffy to me just manners.
 
siennamum said:
especially if the mare is good also,
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Just a thought about this. Surely getting the mare happy to be handled is a basic before breeding from her? What if something went wrong? Obviously semi ferals are a different matter but then they are unlikely to get handled when young foals.

ps. When I say let them be babies I don't mean don't handle them at all. lol
 
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cornbrodolly said:
Is there a link to this site? ?
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The programme was on SKY280 Horse and Country TV, quite late at night. Due to being shut in the house recovering from surgery at present, and climbing the walls, I am watching endless TV, which is how I came across the programme. No doubt it will be repeated endless times, as everything else on that channel seems to be.
 
fburton said:
So if I wanted to stick my finger in a filly foal's every orifice, you'd be happy with that? Not that I would; I hate Miller's 'imprint training'. But it would be my foal I'm messing with, after all. Or does 'play' not extend to that? Where do you draw the line?
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Look, fburton, you weirdo, what you do with your foals orifices is none of my business. I may not be ok with it but whatever tickles your fancy love...

(Ewww, some people are just not happy to stick with sheep!)

:D
 
tallyho! said:
Look, fburton, you weirdo, what you do with your foals orifices is none of my business. I may not be ok with it but whatever tickles your fancy love...
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In case this wasn't tongue in cheek. It's not fburton that's the weirdo it's the thinking and actions involved in much of the imprint training he linked.
 
Completely tongue in cheek! Hope fburton understands that... I'm on your side regarding the handling of foals in this way but I was trying to inject some light humour into the discussion.

I didn't watch it, as anything with an NH #tag is not my bag... I'm not ok with most of the stuff they do but I know lots of people love it.

Each to their own, nothing I say on a forum is going to make a difference anyway apart from start an argument between folk who generally rub along fine otherwise.
 
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