Head carriage with Dutch Gag

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amzy

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New pony came with a dutch gag and seems to tuck his head in most of the time when wearing it and seems happy (although I'm not an expert). However, someone said that he could be carrying his head this way because he isn't happy with it. I tried a hanging cheek today and he was heavy in the hand, lowering his head as much as he could and I just didn't feel as much in control. Would you stick with his original bit, as he's apparently worn it for years, or try something else? I'm just not sure really if he should be overbent when wearing the Dutch Gag. Thanks for reading this garbled post!
 
The reason why the pony will feel strong in hand with a hanging cheek is because a deuch gag is very strong and has more of a poll action than a hanging cheek, My pony bob came in a deutch gag, we moved him down to a hanging cheek, then wilkie, and now loose ring snaffle!

Best thing we ever did for that horse...
Bob also overbent and didnt look "happy" in his gag...
He now looks much better and more natural!
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The thing is, a dutch gag has a head raising action, so it isn't terribly surprising that he felt heavier in the other bit, especially if his old owners used it precisely because he had a tendency to lean on your hands and go a bit deep.

Honestly - if you're happy with how he goes in the bit he came in, then leave it be. If you are concerned then get some lessons with someone really experienced and good and see what they say.
 
ditto SC.

I think a dutch gag can give a very different feel, almost falsely light if that makes sense as you are not so directly attached to horses mouth

mine came with one, I took him out of it but did in the end use it for some activities.

I think it would be good to perhaps get someone experienced on the ground to asses how he is going.
 
Ditto the others.

The most important point is the the hanging cheek has NO poll pressure.

So are you saying that he is overbent in the gag? Maybe see how he goes in a port or mullen mouth kimblewick? Horses seem happier to take a contact with those for some reason.
 
I think he is overbent in the gag but not sure. My instructor can't help me at the moment due to family illness so I just wondered if anyone here may have an idea but I suppose it's hard to tell without seeing him. Thank you anyway.
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The hanging cheek would have some poll action but I now what you mean re difference. I ride mine in a hanging cheek for dressage but he wears a dutch gag the rest of the time. I have tried numerous bits over the years I've had him but have always come back to this bit as we have just the right balance - I don't have to hail on his mouth too much but neither is he too light or backing off.

I did recently change to a waterford mouthpiece over his original eggbutt as i was concerned about the nutcracker action. He does seem a bit better in this.

I would just experiment - there are many mouthpieces, types of bits out there I think you need to find the right balance. Maybe try a cartwheel gag, a tom thumb or a pelham/kimblewick. Horses react to bits differently so the only way to find what you feel is best is to try a few out. I tried to get my old 14.2hh out of pelham with a HUGE port he had when i got him. I tried a kimblewick at one stage and realised I had NOOO control whatsoever - his head went down to the floor and off he'd go! The gag worked wonders as got his head up - he still pulled to a degree but I was safe and had control!
 
What ring is the gag on? If it is on the bottom ring them raise it a ring or try it on the top ring (which will be very similar to the hanging cheek which will have no poll pressure).
It does sound as though he is overbent which is quite common with dutch gags on the bottom ring.
Try it on the middle ring would be my advise
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My boy came in a Dutch gag, and he wasn't over bent as such but he did have a false head carriage as he was going on the poll action and hollowing out. This was on the middle ring.
We were told it was as he was strong, but it actually turned out to be a false positive usig it as although he was more responsive the engine was revving adn the brakes were already half on so when he went you had LESS control as he was so used to being in an outline that he could easily overbend and lock his head.

I changed him to a hanging cheek french ling snaffle and he went the same and I finally got some brakes. If he does try to get strong I just use a drop noseband.
 
I am sure the hanging cheek does have a mild poll action because there is still a slight gag action. In my mind it is similar using a Dutch Gag on the main ring. if there wasn't any poll pressure at all with a hanging cheek then what is the point of it? Why would it be any different from a normal snaffle?

Copied from UK saddlery website:

"Also known as the Filet Baucher. An eggbutt sided plain mouth, single jointed, Hanging Cheek Snaffle, that is suspended in the mouth rather than resting, whitch makes it suitable for those horses that dislike too much weight on their tongues. The hanging cheeks tend to apply slight poll preasure in addition to the lips, toungue and bars. A kind bit that is stronger than an ordinary, single jointed snaffle."
 
Hanging cheeks cannot give try poll pressure. If you look at one in action, they lift in the mouth, and the cheek pieces often go baggy.... thats not poll pressure
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Hanging cheeks are very still in the horses mouth, and sit suspended off the tongue, so can be suitable for horses that dislike tongue pressure, or have big tongues.

You are better off trying a loose ring snaffle of some sort if he leans in anything but a dutch gag, as loose rings are more difficult for them to lean on as there is a small amount of movement in them. He will feel lighter in your hand in a gag as he will hold himself off it slightly, so wont be working into a true contact, which gives a nice "feel" but isn't correct.

Try a loose ring snaffle, with lots of work on circles and trnsitions, and make sure your wrists and arms stay soft so he doesn't have anything to lean on. Working on the lunge with suitable training aids can help them to develop their topline and learn to carry themselves too.
 
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