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CorvusCorax

CorvusCorax

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While browsing another forum, I have come across.....Shepadoodles.

That's right, GSDxPoodle, for sale, right here in the UK, £750
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a pop.

Awesome, just awesome. Rescues full to bursting, sections of the GSD fraternity fighting tooth and nail to improve health issues and now this.

If anyone knows one or owns one or breeds them....why?
 
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. Just googled labradoodle's and seems a very odd breed to mix together. One generally associated with posh women, died pink with a little ball of fluff on there tail. And the other associated with security and police. I personally wouldn't want one, and don't see the need for a new breed as like you say there are LOTS of dogs out there that need re homing
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Does GSD stand for German Shephard Dog?.. Always wondered what the D stand for??
 
Yeah, GSD is German Shepherd Dog.

I do like poodles, there are standard poodles doing schutzhund (the sport, like what police dogs do, protection work and all that) but as a cross it makes no sense to me.
 
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Your poor head.



The worst thing with giving mongrels names like that, is that it does make some people believe they are actually buying a purebred dog, as in a FCI recognised breed!




Why breed them? I am sure it has something to do with allergies, almost "everything" seems to be cross bred with Poodles these days, to get a dog that people with allergies are more likely to tolerate.
Blah blah blah combining the best of two breeds in to one dog...



And of course we have the mantra about mongrels being innate healthier, which according to Per Erik Sundgren (he is a government agronomist and have some other title involving doing research in heredity) only works in the first cross between two purebreds. As I recall, if you cross a first generation cross breed with a third breed, you have a statistically much more unpredictable result (as in looks and temperament) but inherited diseases could also turn up.

If their goal is to create purebred Shepadoodles for more than one generation, they'll cross it back to one of the two breeds and then the inherited diseases can turn up again. There is more than one xxxdoodle on OptiGen's list over dogs they can test for genetically hereditary diseases, to see if your dog is a carrier.




My new motto : If you want a dog with a Poodle coat, buy yourself a Poodle!
 
I know very little poodles and what they are prone to in terms of hereditary conditions but I wouldn't complain so much if I knew that the GSD half of the union was hip and elbow scored, haem test for the sire, eye test etc.
Which I doubt they are.

Oh and then there is the potential for epilepsy in both breeds......

This had been largely eradicated in the GSD in Britain because a small section of breeders did the responsible thing, held their hands up and notified the KC that their males were carriers and ceased to breed from them. However it seems to be becoming prevalent again
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GSD's pink future
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? (Couldn't resist after reading St_Nicholas reply.)


No but seriously, what you describe is exactly the problem. As I understand it, the use of breeding animals that has not been tested or even given a health check before the mating, is the very reason why hereditary diseases could turn up in the second generation cross breeds. I would believe that especially counts for Hip Dysplasia, with its unclear hereditary.



Poodles are a long lived breed, I think I've heard that at least the toy and miniature versions have an average above 14 years?
Standard, Miniature and Toy Poodles can all have hereditary cataract and PRA (both may lead to blindness), the Standard version can have HD.

According to an internet site, Standard Poodles can also be prone to bloat and may carry Von Willebrand's Disease (a coagulation abnormality).
Miniature Poodles can have IMHA (Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia), heart disease, diabetes and epilepsy.
Toy Poodles can have IMHA (Immune Mediated Hemolytic Anemia), slipped stifle, diabetes, epilepsy, heart disorders and digestive tract problems.

So since I presume they're crossing GSD with the Standard Poodle version, they're at least not carrying epilepsy. On other hand if the GSD used is a carrier...




Personally I much rather buy a dog from a breeder who breeds purebreds and knows about what their dogs might carry and tries to breed away from that, rather than somebody breeding unchecked dogs. If it is not checked, how do you know they don't use dogs that wouldn't be allowed to be used to breed purebreds?

Also I have f.ex. heard about much more than one person who everybody believed to be absolutely healthy, all suddenly one day they sometimes have even died, due to a hereditary heart problem that nobody knew, suspected that they had. If humans sometimes can go for twenty or more years without knowing about something like that, why can not a "healthy" dog that never have needed to go to the vet, maybe have a hereditary heart problem that nobody knows about?
 
I was in Harrods yesterday and they were advertising Westipoo pups ... are they actually a recognised breed now?

They also had French bull dogs for sale which were £3000 for the dog and £4700 for the bitches (that is more of an aside as I know someone was looking for one)
 
Will re post without the swearing....it's no suprise to me Cavey......u can bet your bottom dollar it's a clueless waste of space, prob on low income or cash strapped, that needs the money and will either admit they did it on purpose "doubtful" or will admit they did it on purpose to the ignorant of the pound dog situation we have going on in this country who will find the puppies cute and the reasoning for the production of the monstrosities will not be given a second thought.

Idiotic, prob due to lack of a half descent or any education, hence thinking the breeding of an occupation, why work when your dog can do it all
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, and cheaply with no health testing
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You will also often find they cannot take puppies back, cos they are clueless how to manage dogs of a certain breed and certainly could not take fully grown ones back a year later inot a strange pack, and will prob have another litter on the go.
 
Bloody hell? For £750 you could get a decent GSD,why pay that sort of money for a cross?
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I have never understood the thinking behind the designer crosses,never will beyound some peoples greed for money
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Bloody hell? For £750 you could get a decent GSD,why pay that sort of money for a cross?
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I have never understood the thinking behind the designer crosses,never will beyound some peoples greed for money
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Ditto that....usually someone has a female dog(better avoid the B word)
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and they simply cannot let a free mating when they have a dog with testicles pass them by, no matter what the breed a £100 a pup will do to those who are cash strapped enough to do it
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WellI don't know what you said to get your post deleted Cayla but mine got swept up in it too
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£750 is bloomin ridiculous, although I didn't pay for Evie the rest of her litter sold for £600. Her dam is a best of breed show winner, who was taken to germany to be mated to a winning dog . All health tests, dna etc, perhaps her breeder should have just found someone up the road with a poodle
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Finny, you mention von willebrands, there were certain GSD lines producing this a while ago, although most people were responsible and stopped using the relevant dogs you can bet there are still some about, so not a good combination!
 
You are of the responsible kind though MM, u health test, back up your puppies can manage the dog u have already and would more than likely keep a pup.......it's the back street breeders that are the scum creating the problems , like the ones mentioned in Caveys post, but out to out and hope to make a little dosh in the meantime.
 
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Bloody hell? For £750 you could get a decent GSD,why pay that sort of money for a cross?
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I have never understood the thinking behind the designer crosses,never will beyound some peoples greed for money
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Indeed - my two are by a German import, (sadly now deceased) judged to be the best (working and breed) male in Britain and Ireland at seperate events under different judges and their sum total sold to us was cheaper than that.
Both parents had working qualifications, hip and elbow scored, DNA'd, chipped, tatooed and sire haem tested.
(All required in Germany - they have the right idea...)

Bonkers.

Cayla, mind yer manners
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But I understand your pain and frustration
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Bloody hell? For £750 you could get a decent GSD,why pay that sort of money for a cross?
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I have never understood the thinking behind the designer crosses,never will beyound some peoples greed for money
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Ditto that....usually someone has a female dog(better avoid the B word)
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and they simply cannot let a free mating when they have a dog with testicles pass them by, no matter what the breed a £100 a pup will do to those who are cash strapped enough to do it
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Sometime it is just pure greed.
Yes,the cost of a nicely bred,fully health tested pup is a lot BUT that pup will(all things being equal) be with you for at least 10 years-over a lifetime that £600 to £800 works out as at most £60 to £80 a year.Well worth it IMO.

Mind you,I'm one of those weirdos who thinks the cost of nutering should be safely stashed in the bank when you collect a pup so bits can be whiped off ASAP
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and that only a very few dogs are in fact worth breeding from......and that if you want a cross the best place to find one is the local rescue not a bloke from the pub!
 
Remember when puggles were the cross du jour? My local shelter has had a steady stream of those, and maltipoos, over the past year. In fact, a search on Petfinder for Beagles shows that there are just as many Pug/Beagle crosses--no doubt impulse buys at the pet store--needing rescue in my area.
 
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Mind you,I'm one of those weirdos who thinks the cost of nutering should be safely stashed in the bank when you collect a pup so bits can be whiped off ASAP
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and that only a very few dogs are in fact worth breeding from......and that if you want a cross the best place to find one is the local rescue not a bloke from the pub!

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I must be a weirdo as well then
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I'm just a snob, I think, as I don't really have any desire to buy a crossbreed anything, certainly not as a puppy. You never know how ugly they might become when they're adults...or how big they might be.

I knew what dog I wanted, it's size, temperament and exercise level. I also knew what hereditary problems my dog was likely to suffer and took steps to ensure, as far as possible, that he is free from those conditions.

Above all I can't understand why anyone would pay that sort of money for what would essentially have just been called a mongrel not many years ago. You can buy a recognised breed, from a reputable breeder for far less in some cases.....and be happy it won't look like a freak when it hits adulthood!

I would happily rescue a cross breed young adult dog though. As I am shallow, I would at least get to know I would like to look at and pet the dog!
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You can buy a recognised breed, from a reputable breeder for far less in some cases.....and be happy it won't look like a freak when it hits adulthood!

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That's debatable
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But I do agree, like I said, by two are well bred, all health tests for parents and it didn't come to £750 for the two of them together
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WellI don't know what you said to get your post deleted Cayla but mine got swept up in it too
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£750 is bloomin ridiculous, although I didn't pay for Evie the rest of her litter sold for £600. Her dam is a best of breed show winner, who was taken to germany to be mated to a winning dog . All health tests, dna etc, perhaps her breeder should have just found someone up the road with a poodle
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Finny, you mention von willebrands, there were certain GSD lines producing this a while ago, although most people were responsible and stopped using the relevant dogs you can bet there are still some about, so not a good combination!

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Aha! I have been wondering all afternoon if I had gone completely mad and was going to send you a pm MurphysMinder and ask if I had only imagined reading a reply where you mentioned von Willebrands and the fact that all Labradoodles isn't born with Poodle coat. I simply couldn't understand what in your reply, that could have warranted it to be removed by admin.
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Since most crosses with Poodles are done because the "breeder" wants GSD/Maltese/Labrador puppies but with Poodle coat and you mentioned Labradoodles in the reply that went *poof*, I thought it could be relevant to mention the following about Poodle coat inheritance.


To take Labradors crossed with Poodles (Labradoodles) as an example.

Text quoted from the dogbreedinfo site ( http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/index.htm ) :
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Note: there are two totally different types of Labradoodles, the Australian Labradoodle and the American Labradoodle. The Australian Labradoodle is a purebred dog, the American Labradoodle is a hybrid dog.

There are a few different ways breeders are producing American Labradoodles.

F1 = 50% Labrador and 50% Poodle - This is Lab to poodle cross, this is first generation, resulting in healthier offspring! Hair type can be smooth like a Lab, wirey look like a Irish wolfhound or Wavy/shaggy, they can shed or not shed, pups in the same litter can vary. This is not the best cross for people with severe allergies.

F1-B = 25% Labrador Retriever and 75% Poodle (F1 Labradoodle and Poodle cross) - This is Labradoodle bred back to Poodle, Wavy Curly shaggy look doodle very consistent in coat types. F1B is the MOST likely of any to be non shedding and Allergy friendly then ANY doodles and is the easiest coat to take care of.

F2 = F1 Labradoodle and F1 Labradoodle cross - this combination you get the same percentage of Lab Poodle mix as you would an F1 Labradoodle so they are more likely to shed.

F3 = F2 Labradoodle and F2 Labradoodle cross

Multi-generation = F3 or higher generation Labradoodle and F3 or higher generation Labradoodle cross - This is what the Australian Labradoodles usually are.

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So, as the example in the MM reply that went *poof*, if you buy a Labradoodle puppy in the hope of being able to tolerate the Poodle coat better than a purebred Labradors coat, your puppy might be a Labradoodle with Labrador coat and you have to give it away because of allergy.

I'm sure it will be the same with Shepadoodles.
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It really just does make me wonder - what kind of idiot actually buys these crossbreeds/mongrels
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And who the hell pays that sort of money for them
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You can buy a pedigree CKCS for that sort of money, fully vaccinated, wormed etc, Champion parents etc etc etc....

I know I am an obssessive
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but I am so glad I found greyhounds, they are the perfect breed to me, so why anyone would want a lab x poodle or a GSD x poodle is completely beyond me
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AAAAAAARGH blummin back street breeding cowboys
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Another good point Finny - the coat variable - when my two are losing coat I can take bagfulls out of them.....

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My vet has a rescue Goldendoodle. And why was in he rescue? Because he sheds like a Golden Retriever
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Bloody ridiculous! You can get a Vizsla for that money too, from a reputable breeder, vaccinated, papered, hip scored parents. (not that most people would want a vizsla but thats besides the point!
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I know someone that has one...a rescue (suprise suprise) it's a lovely dog, but how someone can warrant purposefully breeding them and charging that money for them I don't know! As some of you have said already, what kind of fool actually buys them???!
 
I've been having a rant about this in the last few weeks to friends as the list of stupid crosses in the local paper grows . Some of the crosses are Germador ( I thought a GSP x Lab but no GSD!!!) , Rottie x mastiff , poddle xCKCS and poodle xjrt( both lots bred by someone who admits she does it for the money , she had designer names which I can't remember now AND she wanted 550 for each pup!!!) Chihuahua x chinese crested , pugtzu 's , snow dogs ( I've no idea but are they Samoyeds or am I just being thick . Okay don't answer that !!) And the one that really got on my t*ts was staffie x chihuahua , no I'm not making that up . Who in their right mind thought that was a good idea !! I just hope the bitch was the staffie . Oh and much earlier this year there was some rottie x dalmatians .
 
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what kind of idiot actually buys these crossbreeds/mongrels And who the hell pays that sort of money for them

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Thats quite simple, the kind of Idiot that follows fashion and are usually the one and the same sort of person that any respectable breeder of Dogs would NEVER sell a puppy too!!!

I'm afraid that some so called rescue organisations are also heavily to blame in the cheap puppy market, when they continue to set near impossible home standards that force some would be good homes into buying a dog, directly feeding irresponsible over breeding!!
 
Another good point Karyn....although I get frustrated with the 'I want a puppy/dog and I want it right NOW' attitude, which I think the rescues are, not perhaps in the right way, trying to discourage.

Thankfully there have been a lot of posts on here this weather that have restored my faith in human nature in that respect...
 
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