Head shaking when putting on bridle-TMJ joint issue??

[bensonstar]

This may be a long post however I will try simple it down as much as possible.

In summer 2021, my ISH started bucking, he would buck until I came off. Turns out after a full bone scan he has 5 KS and SI/Hock issues. These have since been treated and rehab still ongoing..

However I have noticed since bringing him back into work when I put his bridle on he shakes he head like he's trying to get the bridle off. When i remove the brow band he doesn't do it half as much but I noticed once the brow band is back on he's back to being irritated. On the bone scan they picked up an issue in his head, however after Xrays etc nothing was discovered? The vet told me to start his ridden work and see if the head shaking continues. He does stop after 5 mins but once you start asking more from him the head shaking starts again. I'm starting to wonder if he just cannot tolerate the browband.....although prior to the KS he did shake his head but the surgeon said this was down to back pain etc.

The vets also said it could be his TMJ joint and to try inject them both. Basically, my question is, has anyone ever had head shaking with TMJ joint issues? I think im just going to get them injected any ways but be worth knowing if anyone else has experienced this. To add on... before the KS surgery he used to have little like spasm head shakes randomly in his stable? Since the surgery he very rarely does this, i'm just wondering if this was linked to the KS or has he always had the TMJ issues? I've come so far with him and his rehab/surgery and his comfort is my top priority before i continue asking more from him work wise. I just feel like im hitting a wall again and its so frustrating not knowing !

 

[planete]

I have permanently removed the broadband from my cob's bridle (and the noseband). He is much happier.

 

[bensonstar]

I have permanently removed the broadband from my cob's bridle (and the noseband). He is much happier.

How does the bridle stay in place? i was worried it would slip off/back

 

[Gloi]

How does the bridle stay in place? i was worried it would slip off/back

I don't always use a browband and it never moves.

 

[planete]

How does the bridle stay in place? i was worried it would slip off/back

It has never moved.

 

[Milliechaz]

I have permanently removed the broadband from my cob's bridle (and the noseband). He is much happier.

I have with one of my horses too and she is much happier

 

[Kaylum]

Also look at the head piece behind the ears. Is it one of those padded anatomical head pieces. These often pinch the bottom of the horses ears. They move forward so easily. In my opinion they aren't brilliant. Much better with a traditional bridle less the noseband. So many people have no idea how to fit a bridle. The cheek pieces are too long, browband too small. Yes you don't need a browband on either.

 

[Mule]

I sometimes use a head slip with a bit attached, so no browband, noseband or cheek pieces and it has never moved.

 

[Annagain]

Charlie had a bit of an issue tossing his head around (I wouldn't have a called it head shaking, it's more deliberate than that). We had a bit and bridle fitter out and she said his browband was a bit tight and was pulling his bridle forward onto his ears. A new bridle with a much more cut back head piece and a much bigger browband (it doesn't touch his forehead at all) made a world of difference to him. It's a Horsemanship Saddlery Saturn bridle but I'd get a fitter out to advise you as it may not be the right one for your horse. If you go to the Horsemanship Saddlery website they'll have details of fitters that cover your area.

 

[cremedemonthe]

As others have said, the Browband too short and one of the most common problems with head shaking, fidgeting , try a longer browband and see if that works.

 

[scats]

This is quite a timely thread as I have been a bit concerned about Polly over the last couple of months. She wears an anatomical bridle that hasn’t changed, but since November, when I first put it on she starts shaking her head. She stops after a minute or so and then seems fine. Dentist saw her and couldn’t find any issues but the vet Chiro is due in a couple of weeks so I am going to ask her to have a look.

 

[planete]

I bought one of the shaped padded headpieces for Woody before adopting the minimalist style. It was quickly evident that the shaping of it did not match the curves or the spacing of his ears and he let me know it in his usual forceful manner.

 

[Lois Lame]

I've been a little nonplussed by the anatomical bridle craze. Never tried one - they just look like a gimmick.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Dentist saw her and couldn’t find any issues but the vet Chiro is due in a couple of weeks so I am going to ask her to have a look.

I was going to suggest a chiro vet opinion too, but trying a longer brow band/different bridle first is defo worth a try.

After lameness issues a horse can often be left with tension in the poll area after holding itself wonkily for a long time, even after the lameness is resolved. The chiro vet (I use the same one as scats) is a genius at identifying and relieving the tension there, plus she's given an exercise to do in between visits. My IDx with the wonky pelvis tends to need regular attention to her TMJ area, though she responds very well to it.

Chiro vet will also refer on if she finds something more seriously wrong.

 

[daydreamer]

Whilst waiting for the chiro you could try a simple tongue release .... https://www.facebook.com/MastersonM...se-of-this-technique-is-to/10154916844636189/
(hopefully that works!)

 

[Goldenstar]

I would try a fairfax bridle .

I would certainly get the TMj injected and see if it helps .
I would also consider that the horse may have a hydroid problem .
Have a google of the horses hyoid issues right at the rear end can end up making the horses hyoid hurt .
Head shaking like that is often a sign of profound discomfort and misery and sometimes you can’t just get them right and then it’s a difficult ethical / financial/emotional mess and trying to work out the best thing to do .
I think the help of a really good ACPAT physio would help you if the horse has soft tissue discomfort monitoring that is an indication of how physically well the horse feel.
Horses with problems like this can suffer profound emotional damage from working in pain it’s an extremely difficult situation to be in .
I don’t think I could have got my KS horse through without the physio that horse had a long term problem with his tongue and that resolved after the KS surgery .He sadly went on to get tumours on his bowel so I lost him to that in end .
Good luck with all this I know how hard it is .

 

[Goldenstar]

Whilst waiting for the chiro you could try a simple tongue release .... https://www.facebook.com/MastersonM...se-of-this-technique-is-to/10154916844636189/
(hopefully that works!)

You need to be careful with this the hydroid is extremely delicate and easily damaged in a horse like OP’s I would only let a well qualified physio do this at first .

 

[daydreamer]

You need to be careful with this the hydroid is extremely delicate and easily damaged in a horse like OP’s I would only let a well qualified physio do this at first .

Yes I agree. I don’t know if the link works but it is simply done by putting the thumb very gently on the roof of the mouth and letting them move their own tongue. It recommends not fighting them if they don’t want to do it and starting with just 5-10 seconds. If someone follows the instructions and the philosophy of the method I think it should be fine.

 

[Goldenstar]

There’s no way some one not familiar with this should be trying it on a unhappy horse who has not had done before .

 

[LegOn]

I've been a little nonplussed by the anatomical bridle craze. Never tried one - they just look like a gimmick.

I understand newer things can seem like a gimmick but its also nice to see new technologies and science being applied to our horses in order to understand their biomechanics better and therefore improve their comfort and performance. The mapping of the facial nerves has experienced massive progression and now the pressure points or areas that cause a horse discomfort are better understood and new bridles and bits developed according to this new information.

I understand the 'thats the way we always did it/never hurt anyone' attitude can apply to some things, but at the same time the phrase 'ignorance is bliss' is also applicable here. We should always strive to know more, to help more, to improve more.

 

[planete]

There’s no way some one not familiar with this should be trying it on a unhappy horse who has not had done before .

I totally agree with you after my experience with a qualified Masterson practitioner who caused Woody to rear vertical before trying to bite our heads off (he only got my thumb but I was not impressed). I have found he is phobic about having his head restrained by bare hands anyway.

 

[daydreamer]

I totally agree with you after my experience with a qualified Masterson practitioner who caused Woody to rear vertical before trying to bite our heads off (he only got my thumb but I was not impressed). I have found he is phobic about having his head restrained by bare hands anyway.

I'm sorry to hear you and your horse had a bad experience. The whole philosophy of the Masterson method is to stay under the brace response by always listening to the horse and being as soft as possible. So if the practitioner feels a horse starting to tense they should soften and move so there is nothing for the horse to fight against. If a horse is not happy with what is being done then the practitioner should respect that and move on to something else. The hands should never be used to restrain - it's all about getting movement in a relaxed state.

 

[planete]

I'm sorry to hear you and your horse had a bad experience. The whole philosophy of the Masterson method is to stay under the brace response by always listening to the horse and being as soft as possible. So if the practitioner feels a horse starting to tense they should soften and move so there is nothing for the horse to fight against. If a horse is not happy with what is being done then the practitioner should respect that and move on to something else. The hands should never be used to restrain - it's all about getting movement in a relaxed state.

I had read about it and watched videos so was quite keen on it as I knew the pony had many issues, some of them physical and was hoping it might help him as well as throwing some light on problem areas. Unfortunately he was even more convinced humans were out to get him after this experience! I do appreciate we were unlucky though and it has not put me off the method, just the one practitioner.

 

[rextherobber]

Charlie had a bit of an issue tossing his head around (I wouldn't have a called it head shaking, it's more deliberate than that). We had a bit and bridle fitter out and she said his browband was a bit tight and was pulling his bridle forward onto his ears. A new bridle with a much more cut back head piece and a much bigger browband (it doesn't touch his forehead at all) made a world of difference to him. It's a Horsemanship Saddlery Saturn bridle but I'd get a fitter out to advise you as it may not be the right one for your horse. If you go to the Horsemanship Saddlery website they'll have details of fitters that cover your area.

I have the Horsemanship Scorpio bridle for one of mine, they are fantastic . A very "traditional" approach friend commented on how much more comfortable the browband position looked compared with conventional bridles.

 

[bensonstar]

Also look at the head piece behind the ears. Is it one of those padded anatomical head pieces. These often pinch the bottom of the horses ears. They move forward so easily. In my opinion they aren't brilliant. Much better with a traditional bridle less the noseband. So many people have no idea how to fit a bridle. The cheek pieces are too long, browband too small. Yes you don't need a browband on either.

Thank you. His bridle is just a standard bridle. I did have him in one of those mentioned above however he was much worse.

 

[TotalMadgeness]

Try looking at these pages on advice on how to fit a bridle and the different effects an anatomical headpiece can have on a horse.

www.horsemanshipsaddlery.uk/how-to-measure-for-our-bridles.html
www.horsemanshipsaddlery.uk/anatomical-bridle-headpieces.html

My connie shakes his head and after researching, I found when I changed the headpiece to a Shires Velociti Freedom headpiece and bought pony sized cheekpieces (to get the buckle down to 'mid eye level') he stopped shaking his head. He has a noseband but I got a size which meant the buckle was also at mid eye level. Previously the headpiece I was using was sitting with the back edge tipping back / digging into his head and the noseband/cheekpiece buckles were way too high.