Head tossing is driving me mad!

seoirse

seoirse

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Can anyone offer any advice? My horse has started head tossing (up and down rather than side to side) really badly. He only does it in canter out hacking in company or when we are jumping. He doesn’t ever do it when I school him. I school him in a hanging cheek snaffle but he’s too strong in this hacking and jumping XC and leans, I used to hack him in a Kimblewick and have done for several years but he started head tossing in it recently and he is not as strong as he used to be (lots of schooling is slowly paying off!) so I changed it to a 3 ring gag with French link mouthpiece. I think the head tossing is now a habit. He’s had his back, saddle, teeth and everything checked. There is nothing wrong with him and I know he is comfortable cos he doesn’t do it in the snaffle. I can see how the Kimblewick might have been uncomfortable which is why I have changed it. It’s driving me mad. I’ve got a lesson next Friday and hopefully we can have a look at it then but any ideas before then would be great. :mad:
 
I have in the past and he was unstoppable. He's a bit of a thug and quite happily got stuck into a pulling match with me in it. I tried a couple of bitless bridles some time ago but maybe its worth trying again. Thing is I know he can happily go in a bit as he is fine in the school when life isn't exciting.
:confused:
 
My friend has a 16.2hh mare (ISH so obv fairly strong!) who I hack regularly and head tosses, its very annoying and has left blisters on our hands in the past! She's ridden in a pelham and double reins - what worked for us was taking one set of reins and whapping them across her neck and saying "NO". The last time she did it was when we went across an open field and only trotted, so she got giddy! Sounds simple but its the thing thats been most effective!!
K x
 
Sounds like he may be a headshaker. Try a plastic bit, it can make a difference in some horses. Has he had his teeth done recently? Was the curb rubbing anywhere? it could have caused discomfort in a nerve on his face, which is now causing the headshaking...
 
KatB said:
Sounds like he may be a headshaker. Try a plastic bit, it can make a difference in some horses. Has he had his teeth done recently? Was the curb rubbing anywhere? it could have caused discomfort in a nerve on his face, which is now causing the headshaking...
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Ditto

My girly does this. She's a headshaker.....
Would defo get teeth checked out too
 
Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

He had his teeth done just a few weeks ago and he sees the EDT every 6 months anyway since breaking a tooth years ago. I've had this horse for 7 years and he's always been pretty fussy in his mouth and prone to a bit of head tossing. Plus, he's pretty lively and keen and I think the head tossing is mainly an evasive tactic he uses when he wants to go faster which he is for some reason doing more now. I want to rule out all physical problems though and my physio is going to come and have a look too and watch me ride him as well.

I used to ride him in a happy mouth bit but he used to chew it and it'd end up with nasty teeth marks in making it sharp and nasty.

I may end up resorting to a standing martingale but if possible I'd like to try and get him to decide to not do it rather than force him.

Going to ride tomorrow and try him XC in my schooling bridle and see if he doesn't do it, or I can't stop, or what happens!!

Thanks everyone.
 
My horse does this! It's very peculiar, but the vet has assured us he's not a head shaker. He does it out on hacks, and in certain arenas (not ours!), so I presume it's caused by midges or something similar... He does also shake his head to evade the contact, but only tries this a few times, before stopping if you're strict with him... With yours though, it sounds more like he's over-excited or impatient rather than there is something physically wrong with him... What bit/noseband is he in, and have you changed this recently? And if you lunge him over poles and jumps, in a bridle, does he still do it? Please let me know if you sort it :)
 
I suspect that your horse, like mine, is a seasonal headshaker. This is caused by all sorts of pollens especially in spring and autumn. At the moment I think that there are a lot of spores etc around. Don't go along the route of a martingale or harsher bit as these are not the answer and will only upset your horse. Mine is ridden in a nosenet from February to November, and whilst you may think that it is only a flimsy bit of netting you may well be amazed at the difference it will make. Funnily enough, schooling, my horse is fine - no problem. But as soon as I venture out of the yard to hack then the up and down shaking will start! By all means check his teeth but do try a nosenet too!
 
I've tried all sorts of nosebands but nothing makes any difference.

Here is a pic of him doing it. I can't say I've noticed if its seasonal, as far as I know he does it all year round but just more now than ever. As I said I've had him 7 years though the first few of those were a bit tricky as he's a difficult horse, but has finally decided to grow up and is going brilliantly now - except the head tossing! We do have a horse on the yard that wears a nosenet so I might ask if I can borrow it as its worth a try. He never does it on the lunge even in a bridle and all his tack over fences. He only ever does it with me on board out in fields and over jumps. Never in the arena, unless I put jumps up in there too!

I will let you know how I get on. Thanks again everyone, this is all really helpful and giving me lots of ideas to try out.

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If you have gone from the kimblewick to a three ring gag, the poll pressure has prob been increased. He may well be uncomfortable with this and is head shaking to let you know. Some horses with fleshy or sensitive mouths can find a caversson uncomfortable as it (even loose) will press the flesh onto their back teeth. Try no noseband (or a grackle doesn't press here so might be worth a try (although it is the worst noseband for pressing on the trigeminal nerve - an important facial nerve that is often associated with headshaking) - not to clamp mouth shut though, good 2 fingers space on straps!). Comes down to your horses taste! My mare has a v sensitive nose, contentious as it might be, trimming her whiskers has made a massive difference. She won't tollerate a nose net. When mine headshakes (spring time for her) I put a balance strap on and hook my thumbs behind it to allow a soft and consistent contact so she doesn't jerk my hands around when she shakes her head - with this she settles much more quickly. Telling her off only winds her up and makes her anxious. I also make sure to ride her forwards just as confidently when she does shake so that I don't inadvertantly teach her that headshaking leads to less or easier work! Also like mentioned above, season allergies can cause it too. Unfortunatly behaviour like that is really hard to work out and stop! Worth trying things one at a time and carefully seeing what helps.
 
He does have a very sensitive face actually, when I lead him if I hold the headcollar he flings his head about to get my hand off. If I just lead him by the rope though he is fine and leads perfectly, so its not that he is disrespectful to lead. When I first had him at 5 he was TERRIBLE to bridle but eventually I got him over that and he is fine now.
I have every type of noseband going as I've never really been able to pin one down that he goes best in. I am going to try him tonight in the snaffle I school him in cos he's never headshaken in that, minus a noseband, over a few fences and see what he's like (I will let you know how far he bogs off with me too!! :D). I think this will have to be solved by a process of elimination. Thanks again for your advice. I will make sure I try one thing at a time to pinpoint what makes the difference. Fingers crossed something will work!
 
Sounds like a headshaker, perhaps a nose net? I know some horses who need a nose net all year round and out hacking he may need one more which is why you don't get the headshaking in the school.
 
Didn't someone post a link on here a few days ago to a special bridle that had a set back headpiece. I'm sure that it was mentioned that it was good for headshakers.
 
Seorse, please do not forget saddle fit!

My horse was exactly like yours, probably worse, he used to do it so badly, he would rear! i went through a million bits, saddle pads, bridle, osteo, physio, teeth, ears, forelock, TMJ joint, nosenets, bute test and 3 saddlers! but at last we got him a saddle that fit him properly and its very much almost stopped! He still has a shake on occasion, but i dont mind one shake.. its when he did it for 20 minutes solid that i didnt like so much!


Also make sure you ride long and low a lot, specially when warming up and make sure he has lots of stretches!

PM me if you like and ill direct you to a couple of vids of my boy ;) before and after if you like ;)
 
Faracat said:
Didn't someone post a link on here a few days ago to a special bridle that had a set back headpiece. I'm sure that it was mentioned that it was good for headshakers.
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its called a dyon difference, but they are quite expensive and wont lend them out for trial.

If it truly is a bridle issue i would very much recommend Stroud Saddlery who make the bridles that cut back behind the ears,tho not extreme as the dyons... and will come out and fit a bridle for you made-to-measure. they are also extremely friendly and helpful! my boy is also hard to bridle due to mild muzzle deviation.
 
Sounds like it might just be excitement if he only does it in certain circumstances. I'd definately try riding without a noseband at all, and changing back to snaffle if you can stop OK!

Maybe just the advent of a stronger bit fizzes him up?
 
I'm pretty sure it isn't the saddle as its been made to fit him (had about 10 saddles before that!) and is regularly checked.
I do think it is partly excitement as he only does when we are doing fun things! I am going to try him in the snaffle without a noseband tonight over a few of our small XC fences and see how he is.
He doesn't especially like having a strong bit in his mouth so I think thats part of the problem but he really does like to bowl on and its the only way I can have any say in the matter.
I will report tonight!
 
My mare Bonnie used to do this out hacking too, and I got her a nose net and she completely stopped. She didn't tend to do it in the school at all, guessing it was maybe due to the different plants/pollen/dust about when we're out hacking. I also noticed she tended to do it more when going from shadow back into direct light and vice versa... but like I said the nose net completed stopped the problem. My hands were very grateful :)
 
Well, he does it in the snaffle too, I hacked him round the farm in it last night. He only does it when he doesn't want to slow down though it seemed. When I school him he is really good (mostly) and I can slow him down mainly by using my seat but outside of the school /circles environment when things are exciting he ignores this aid so I end up using my hand more, which is what he objects to. Halfway round the hack however I started working him through into my hand and got him in a nice contact and he was fine. He didn't head toss and was much easier to stop and didn't resist when I used my hand. I can't ride him like that all the time though!
I think he is just evading the bit and its his way of telling me he doesnt want to slow down. Very annoying.
I think I just need to actually school him on hacks more to get him used to being more responsive to slowing down aids.
 
Just another thought - if you are playing around with his bit have you looked at the shape of his mouth and how thick his tongue? a lot of ISH have very large tongues which make bitting a bit tricky. My boy arrived with a wedge in his tongue (like a doorstep) from drawing his tongue behind his bit and it is still a bit odd shaped. For a horse with a thick tongue, then something heavy and inflexible is unpleasant for them. I school in a loose ring snaffle (NS) with a lozenge and I now jump in a NS fulmer gag - again with a lozenge. Looking to change his bit for hacking as he is too strong in a snaffle but I don't need the gag either.

In the interim while you sort him out I would recommend a standing martingale. I ignored my previous horse doing this (and it was an evasion) and ended up in A&E with concussion and a very bashed nose. He actually stopped it after a while when he realised he couldn't throw his head up and I took it off again.
 
I bought my horse in April and she was fine. About 7 weeks later she started head tossing - not shaking. It didn't happen immediately I got on - only after about 20 minutes and mainly on the way back from hacks. To cut a long story short, she had a fractured tooth which had become decayed and has now been in hospital for over a month as she has got an antibiotic resistant bug in the sinuses via the tooth. If you haven't already done so, it might be worth getting your horse x-rayed. I am in the position of possibly losing my horse as a result of this, and I would hate the same thing to happen to anyone else.
 
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