head tossing /shaking stroppy not illness

[smiggy]

have posted about my young highland mare with an aversion to work. Previous issue was that she was oblivious to any aid to go forwards, either ridden or in hand. Gave her the winter off to mature, and she has really filled out.
Last few months she went to friends as a companion for turned away hunter. as a favour eventer son started riding her for a few weeks. He has managed to find forward gear! (think it involved legs of steel, little spurs and a dressage whip in either hand!)
Anyway she will now hack out with more enthusiasm and walks out, trots out really well, we have the odd stop but she listens and moves on
BUT now we have head shaking/tossing instead. Def of the stroppy type as starts after the first nap and gets better on the way home
Have tried loose rein and a contact and neither seems better.
any ideas?

 

[flirtygerty]

No idea but will bump this for you

 

[cremedemonthe]

One of the most common causes of headshaking and largely overlooked is the browband being too short.
It has the effect of pulling the headpiece up onto the back of the horse's ears, irritating them.
To eliminate the browband see if you can get 2 adult sized fingers under it with ease when on the horse,
if so then you can cross it off the list, Oz

 

[Marley&Me]

Personally I would be checking teeth, bit, back, feet, diet/managment and ruling everything out.

How do you know she is just being stroppy?

 

[Natch]

Back, tack, teeth?

 

[SophieLouBee]

I've got a bossy, opinionated, easily bored PBA who tosses her head.
She has no physical issues, and it is purely her being a beast, because she either doesn't want to do as you ask, is bored of what we are doing, or is just generally being a mareish madam in season.

She only does it in walk on hacks (on the way home, what a surprise), when we are trotting/cantering/galloping and she's engaging her brain, then she doesn't do it, when schooling, when she's had enough of a certain 'game' then she starts up.

I've tried all techniques with her, loose rein, contact, telling off, I have found that when she's working in a frame, or bending she doesn't do it (she hardly does it at all with me, as I know how to work her, but my novicey sharers don't know what buttons to press and she does it more with them).

I've come to accept, that when she has got it on her, then it is going to occur, and I just deal with it. She doesn't do it like nod nod nod all the time, it's just random, and sometimes a twisty movement, displaying her 'dominance' or so she thinks. I'm totally sure that it's nothing other than her attitude to life that causes it, cocky beast.

A clients horse also head shakes, I've not quite figured out why with this one yet, I don't know if it is seasonal or something else, she only does it when ridden, and it's not a controlled thing like my mare above, I genuinely don't think she can help it. I'm trying to get them to trial a nose-net to see if it helps.
Funnily enough, her other horse has started to copy, when we go out together, but when I take the third non-headshaking horse, he horse doesn't do it! Which I find fascinating. (Sad).

I guess headshaking can be caused by many things, painful neurological response to sensors (light, pollen, dust, pressure on the face), allergies, a neurological fault, where the brain sends the wrong signals and it just occurs (I've noticed this as more of a nod though), a direct pain reaction (teeth, back, ears, tack etc) or some horses just do it, for whatever reason, or no reason at all (well a reason that is unknown to us mere humans!).

There was a good (but I felt, slightly biased) article on it by Proff Knottenbelt in last months or maybe it was this months Your Horse.

There are so many things to go through to get to finding out what is causing headshaking, it could be more than one thing, and if it turns out to be a neurological problem, the options are limited. If you are lucky and it's an allergy, or something to do with eyes/light, then there are nosenets/goggles/masks for horses, that can help, but its usually found out by trial and error, as what else can you do?
If you have a horse that's just a stroppy git, then I suppose you are a lucky one and you just put up and shut up!,
Perhaps yours will grow out of it when she matures a bit?
Perhaps it's the time of year/heat/pollen?
I'd be interested to hear how you get on, as I am quite fascinated by this subject.

 

[Merlin11]

My horse is head shaking just now but he has a pollen allergy - it is always worse in this kind of warm sunny weather - could be the reason

 

[hairycob]

I know what you mean. If I take my youngster out on his own he will have a complete strop & really throw his head around for about 5-10 mins. Once he realises it's not going to get him back home he stops. He doesn't do it going out in company & it's worse if I ride in the evening when he thinks he is coming out of the field for his tea.

 

[Ladyinred]

We have one who tried this out for a pastime. Once again, definitely not a headshaker this was a tantrum type 'don't want to' head toss. We eventually found she took a degree of pleasure from the bit rattling in her mouth when she did it, so put her bitless. The tossing stopped immediately and she has never looked back.

But she is a Sec D and if ever there is a breed to play games it has to be them.

 

[Ladyinred]

To add to SophieLouBee's post: another of ours had a problem that we did think was genuine headshaking but wasn't a pollen allergy. It was those tiny little fruit fly things that would irritate her ears so we got a fly fringe with ears for her. Luckily whatever flys they are they only seem to be about for a few weeks of each year because she looks completely ridiculous ridden out with her 'ears on'.

 

[smiggy]

thanks guys, will check browband and take other stuff on board.

Marley and me, I know its stroppy because it doesnt happen till after the first conversation we have about napping on the ride, then flares up if asked to do anything she doesnt particularly want to, eg go behind another horse.
it very much has a miss piggy air to it!

 

[Marley&Me]

thanks guys, will check browband and take other stuff on board.

Marley and me, I know its stroppy because it doesnt happen till after the first conversation we have about napping on the ride, then flares up if asked to do anything she doesnt particularly want to, eg go behind another horse.
it very much has a miss piggy air to it!

Just wondered! Sounds like you have a few ideas now, hope it resolves for you.

 

[Shysmum]

Yup check everything, and also check the bit. I've just swapped the boy from a normal snaffle to a french link for a similar reason, and he seems happier.

The other reason Shy throws his head is when those dastardly midges dare to go anywhere near him - he cannot stand them, and becomes a nodding pony.

 

[Brightbay]

Horses try to communicate in whatever way they can. If you ignore the first communication (and, in fact, punish it by blasting through it using legs and whip), the horse realises that the particular form of communicating "I am not happy with this" is ruled out. So they find the next possible way of saying the same thing. Humans do this too... if you are waiting to be served nice and politely in a shop and the person serving ignores you and serves others, you make yourself heard a bit, you might try to catch their eye, if this doesn't work you try speaking, then speaking louder... Horses are no different.

If you shut down one channel of communication, expect to hear the message in a louder and more annoying way

Alternatively, try working out what you are doing that is causing the pony to think work is not either neutral or even better, enjoyable and fun (unless, of course, that's not important to you). And work on that... then you won't get head tossing further down the line.

 

[TrasaM]

Well said Brightbay. And really? Your friend convinced her to go forwards using force, spurs & crop! There really are other kinder ways to get a horse to work with/ for you.

 

[smiggy]

Well I would love to know what they are quite honestly because I have had horses for over thirty years and never had one like her.
I fully embrace, and have paid for, natural horsemanship, clicker training you name it and I have five other beautifully behaved, happy well mannered horses.
I don't even own a pair of spurs.
I sent this mare to be professionally broken, at a well researched yard costing over 200 pounds per week. They managed after six weeks to get walk, trot and a few strides of canter .
She is just very very lazy, even in the field she ambles rather than waste energy.
Back, teeth and tack have all been checked there is no physical issue
Yes she is trying to communicate and she is saying, actually I can't be bothered to go out for a hack today.
What I am saying is ,well you know actually you live in a very nice field with your every whim catered for and if I expect you to do half an hours work three times a week then that's what we are going to do
Honestly don't think that's a big ask!
If everything is going her way, ie we are going towards home and she is in front, then she strides out happy as lorry, no head shaking in sight.
Seriously im not joking, if you know ways to get her motivated I'm all ears.

 

[Hedwards]

One of the most common causes of headshaking and largely overlooked is the browband being too short.
It has the effect of pulling the headpiece up onto the back of the horse's ears, irritating them.
To eliminate the browband see if you can get 2 adult sized fingers under it with ease when on the horse,
if so then you can cross it off the list, Oz

This ^^^ when i first started riding my loan horse a big strapping 17.2hh warmblood with a mahoosive head I found he would work fine and then suddenly shake his head with his ears all over the place. I didnt like his bridle anyway, so bought a new one, slightly bigger and with padded areas over his poll - completely stopped the problem (although I have now found out he seems to have an allergy to oil seed rape, but its a completely different kind of head shaking, with sneezing/cought and snorting involved too, solved by a nose net)

 

[arizonahoney]

I think an animal communicator could be a real help here