Headshaking/drugging post on FB

[poiuytrewq]

I've just been reading a thread about some one having bought a horse who has turned out to be a head shaker. Seller claims it never did it previously and refuses to take it back.
Buyer is totally doing everything right and a vet is involved, Vet think s it may have been drugged at the viewing as it didn't head shake then.

So I;m curious as to what drug could be given to a moderate head shaker to completely hide the condition yet still render it ride-able and nicely ride-able presumably as the purchaser bought it. Any Idea?

*yes I'm considering drugging my horse, but in the nicest possible way....if there is something out there that helps why not!

 

[splashgirl45]

Not saying the dealer is right and the horse may have been drugged which is why you have a vetting with bloods taken which doesn’t seem to have happened in this case., but my mare was not a head shaker in the first or second yard she went to, the third yard she started headshaking quite violently , partly controlled by a nose net. It seemed to coincide with the rape growing as she was fine in the winter. I moved her after 8 years and she never shook her head again at the last yard.

 

[Rowreach]

What's the timeline? It may well have not been a headshaker previously but have started as a seasonal thing, or there may be something like a rape field at the new yard, or it could be a reaction to certain feeds (which is what did it with mine, who started headshaking after I bought her, and I'd known her a long time before that and she never did it, nor has done since I found the cause).

I find it unlikely that any drug which prevented headshaking wouldn't make the horse look obviously drugged in other ways.

Also, not all sellers are dodgy.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Yes, I'm told mine never head shook before. I'm just really intrigued to know what the vet thought could cause symptoms to vanish, If indeed there were symptoms.

 

[poiuytrewq]

What's the timeline? It may well have not been a headshaker previously but have started as a seasonal thing, or there may be something like a rape field at the new yard, or it could be a reaction to certain feeds (which is what did it with mine, who started headshaking after I bought her, and I'd known her a long time before that and she never did it, nor has done since I found the cause).

I find it unlikely that any drug which prevented headshaking wouldn't make the horse look obviously drugged in other ways.

Also, not all sellers are dodgy.

24 hours apparently.
Well no this is what interested me, surely riding a doped horse would effect it in other ways. No drug would cause a horse to stop head shaking but not effect anything else surely.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Also what is the correct way forward in this kind of situ?
If X sells a horse that had genuinely never showed any sign of being a head shaker until arriving at V's yard. It is a declareable vice and the law seems to side with the buyer. Would you be expected to refund?

 

[Fransurrey]

Was the horse sold with tack? It could be as simple as a new bridle placing pressure on the poll, ears or trigeminal nerve, or as someone suggested, different pollen. Rape is pretty much gone to seed round here, but we have ornamental palms and all the chestnuts are in full flower.

 

[webble]

It could be something local thats an allergy that has triggered it. Another one to ask if bloods were taken at the vetting?

 

[honetpot]

I have had a pony from three, its didn't head shake till about six, with no change of management, it was LR FR. It won a lot in hand but in my opinion its head is so flat at the front its deformed, it has dental problems and as soon as you put a bridle on now it starts to twitch, headcollar is fine. As its useful as a companion I have never had it investigated, even if it was 'just' behavoiral it would never be safe as a LR FR, but I have never seen it headshake in the field and we are surrounded by various crops.

 

[SEL]

Piriton can definitely help mine and I know the dosage that stops the shaking but doesn't make her dopey.

But environment and tack also contribute to how bad she can get.

I knew a horse who would throw herself on the ground with head shaking. She was passed on as a freebie companion and was fine in her new home - I saw photos of her doing normal horse stuff.

 

[ycbm]

Headshaking isn't a vice, it's an illness, and I don't think it's declarable.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I have had a pony from three, its didn't head shake till about six, with no change of management, it was LR FR. It won a lot in hand but in my opinion its head is so flat at the front its deformed, it has dental problems and as soon as you put a bridle on now it starts to twitch, headcollar is fine. As its useful as a companion I have never had it investigated, even if it was 'just' behavoiral it would never be safe as a LR FR, but I have never seen it headshake in the field and we are surrounded by various crops.

Of course, that's another thing, It can just come on. Its odd that the bahaviour isn't consistent.

I have no idea in regards to tack and feed etc in this particular horse. I don't know them personally I just read through the thread this morning and it got me thinking and wondering.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Headshaking isn't a vice, it's an illness, and I don't think it's declarable.

I know its not a vice as such but did think in terms of selling it counted as a declarable vice

 

[Rowreach]

It's a syndrome, and I'd say it is declarable.

If this particular horse has the head pain version of headshaking, then it could simply have been buted up to disguise it.

How old is it? It may genuinely have only just started. And the time of year is a factor too, a lot of them are fine until about now (start of summer), and with the weird spring it's perfectly possible this is a new, seasonal thing.

 

[Ouch05]

Of course, that's another thing, It can just come on. Its odd that the bahaviour isn't consistent.

I have no idea in regards to tack and feed etc in this particular horse. I don't know them personally I just read through the thread this morning and it got me thinking and wondering.

I had my horse from 2.5 at 6 from know where with no change in environment or tack started to headshake to the point of dangerous, also not consistence. Literally went from riding and have a ball to unridable in two weeks. So yes it can fine in one home but not when moved and can be anything from teeth, uv, pollen etc

 

[dapple_grey]

Reading with interest as I viewed a young mare yesterday who when ridden appeared to be a headshaker.

Owner hadn't declared it and said she hadn't done it before but it was very pronounced. She was very fussy in the mouth and didn't look happy, wore a very tight grackle noseband too.

I too would think it's something you should declare?

 

[poiuytrewq]

I had my horse from 2.5 at 6 from know where with no change in environment or tack started to headshake to the point of dangerous, also not consistence. Literally went from riding and have a ball to unridable in two weeks. So yes it can fine in one home but not when moved and can be anything from teeth, uv, pollen etc

That’s awful
Sorry you had to deal with that

 

[nutjob]

If the seller is a dealer then they should take the horse back if they have been notified there is a problem in this time frame. It's irrelevant if they were unaware there was a problem or not. Getting your money back is another thing even with a ccj.

If it's a private seller then you don't have as many rights. If a vet is now saying the horse may have been doped then presumably if the buyer had a vetting they would know what to look for in the blood sample. If the buyer had no vetting and it was a private seller they will have more difficulty.

My headshaker stopped completely with a nerve block to the trigeminal nerve but this is short lived - long enough to get through a viewing though.

 

[poiuytrewq]

If the seller is a dealer then they should take the horse back if they have been notified there is a problem in this time frame. It's irrelevant if they were unaware there was a problem or not. Getting your money back is another thing even with a ccj.

If it's a private seller then you don't have as many rights. If a vet is now saying the horse may have been doped then presumably if the buyer had a vetting they would know what to look for in the blood sample. If the buyer had no vetting and it was a private seller they will have more difficulty.

My headshaker stopped completely with a nerve block to the trigeminal nerve but this is short lived - long enough to get through a viewing though.

I have read about blocking the nerve but thought it was something they no longer too, I suppose it at least gives a very definite diagnosis.

 

[ycbm]

"Should declare", morally and "must declare" legally are two very different things.

Head shaking can start at any point, my vet told me the commonest age was 8. My horse with trigeminal neuralgia was on human anti epilepsy drugs. I think if it had actually stopped the pain, which it didn't, he would probably have passed a vet as a nice quiet horse without question.
.

 

[nutjob]

I have read about blocking the nerve but thought it was something they no longer too, I suppose it at least gives a very definite diagnosis.

I don't think they do it now, but it was a common diagnostic at the time. I also needed a vet letter confirming that my horse was diagnosed clinically as a headshaker to be able to use a nose net for BE. It's a permit piece of equipment now so you don't need a vet letter.