Headshaking

[AUB]

I bought my horse in the end of November after losing my old mare. Not a complete beginner here, I’ve had horses for 30 years and ridden advanced medium.
5 staged vetting was perfect.
A new saddle was bought and fitted in January, teeth were checked in April.

End of May/beginning of June I noticed him being very irritated by flies, but I soon realised that he was also shaking his head when there were no bugs. He’s only headshaking during work, both ridden and lunged, but not in the field or stable.

I began investigating and trying out a few things:
Nose net - no difference
fly mask - no difference
Temperature- no difference
Outdoor/indoor school - no difference
Sunshine/clouds - no difference
Halter/bridle/cavesson - no difference
Nose band/no noseband - no difference
Windy/no wind - no difference
Light drizzle/no rain - no difference
Grass pollen high/low - no difference
Cetirizine - no difference
School/forrest - no difference
Bugs - no difference
Nostrils cleansed/left untouched - no difference
Ridden/lunged - no difference

So… so far nothing has made any difference. It’s only gotten worse since first observed and he’s been out of work all of July.

I’ve had his teeth re-checked and x-rayed, nothing there. The chiropractor (vet) has been out twice and only found him to be a bit tight in the fascia around his left hind and the facial fascia.
I’ve started him up on magnesium, a supplement supporting the immune system and start giving NAF Shake relief from tomorrow. And I’m contemplating renting the eVysor goggles to try that for a few weeks, even though there is no difference between indoor/outdoor or if the sun is shining or not.
There is a rape field next to the yard that will be harvested in the next couple of weeks, so that might also make a difference.

The insurance is on board with scintigraphy, but there’s only one clinic that does it and that’s half way across the country. My local clinic on the other hand is very well versed in headshaking, one of their vets is one always recommended online to seek out if your horse starts headshaking. So I’m having a hard time deciding what to do next. Do I start with the local clinic and have blood work done for allergy and borrelia, do lameness investigation, check the hyoid, eyes, ears, do endoscopy etc or do I do the scintigraphy first?

I don’t even know if I’m asking for advice or just venting! I’m just very frustrated.

 

[Barton Bounty]

It can be very frustrating, have you tried other hayfever relief other than cetirizine? I tried loratidine with mine and it had no effect, they all take to them differently. It definitely sounds to me like an allergy to something.
BB often gets a runny nose and some discharge when it all starts

 

[AUB]

I’ve only tried cetirizine so far. But my chiropractor-vet made me aware that histamine is not the primary mediatorer in allergic reactions in horses, so either way antihistamine might not be the answer. But of course it could be worth a try.
I’ve upped the cetirizine dosage to 120 mg/day and might go further up, just to see what happens.

I think it’s so hard to guess at whether it’s allergy or something else. He’s headshaking, snorting and sometimes rubs his nose, but if he was allergic to something wouldn’t he also do that in the field and stable? It’s very obvious that he only does it when exercised and afaik that points more to trigeminal headshaking.
There’s no nasal discharge to speak of.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I’ve only tried cetirizine so far. But my chiropractor-vet made me aware that histamine is not the primary mediatorer in allergic reactions in horses, so either way antihistamine might not be the answer. But of course it could be worth a try.
I’ve upped the cetirizine dosage to 120 mg/day and might go further up, just to see what happens.

I think it’s so hard to guess at whether it’s allergy or something else. He’s headshaking, snorting and sometimes rubs his nose, but if he was allergic to something wouldn’t he also do that in the field and stable? It’s very obvious that he only does it when exercised and afaik that points more to trigeminal headshaking.
There’s no nasal discharge to speak of.

Just an idea, I give BB 20 tablets a day so that is 200mg and he can have more if required

I feel your pain I have been down the whole allergy route…

 

[Portly]

Mine has just started 3 weeks ago, out of the blue, nothing changed, had the vet out as was so violent, tried bute - some improvement, anti histamines absolutely no difference.
The only positive is he doesnt do it when ridden (yet).
I have worked out his trigger is wind, he gets very, very stressed in the field, if out when windy, when he comes in it takes a few hours for it to calm down. Now its a case of what levels of wind can he cope with.
Im gutted but hopefully I can manage it.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

My retired boy was a terrible headshaker. It was so distressing for us both. He would do it ridden and in the field. I spent thousands trying to find a 'cure'. Nothing helped. I rode him early mornings and he went outside with a full facemask on. I've had him nearly 20 years. He has been retired for 7 ish years and barley headshakes now. Its a terrible thing for them to go through.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

My horse is a trigeminal head shaker it's only mild he doesn't really shake his head that much he rubs his nose and face, he might stop to rub once or twice while ridden I find some brushes when groomed can trigger it some rugs can also do it, I use a very basic bridle as to wide or thick makes him worse, I found the padded ones were the worse.

I also find stress is a bad trigger and can make him worse for days so I try to keep him calm, regular physio I find helps I have also used a cranial sacro therapist that also calms it down.

I recently had a nerve release therapist out as well which I think really has made a difference, she also showed me how to do facia release on his face with 3 different techniques that you can weekly.

There is only one person trained in this country to do it it's not cheap but it's not a continuous thing like physio so in my opinion it's totally worth it, she was working on my horse for nearly 2 hours everything is done very slowly and calmly and she gives them long breaks.

My horse started symptoms about 10 years ago his 19 now and I manage it we think his is caused by repeated guttural pouch infections as a young horse, apparently the damage and the scoping can cause nerve damage and sensitivity.

 

[Replay]

It could be worth talking to Tim Thomson Jones (ex racehorse trainer, now horse allergy person). Google the HTJ Centre. He isnt that easy to get hold of - you have to ring him! He treated a horse for a friend of mine for a Candida overgrowth that was causing inflammation and that made the horse headshake. It is all quite odd, but he does have success!

 

[AUB]

It could be worth talking to Tim Thomson Jones (ex racehorse trainer, now horse allergy person). Google the HTJ Centre. He isnt that easy to get hold of - you have to ring him! He treated a horse for a friend of mine for a Candida overgrowth that was causing inflammation and that made the horse headshake. It is all quite odd, but he does have success!

Thank you, but I’m in Denmark :-/

 

[AUB]

Okay, don’t judge - please laugh with (and at!) me. A few weeks before my horse started headshaking another boarder had this very “alternative” vet out. As he walked by my horse he commented “oh dear, you have a bad headache my friend!” and quickly popped the laser on him.

And … he’s coming out tomorrow afternoon.

I feel super silly. I don’t believe in stuff like that at all, but I mean… he IS a vet afterall. And I know of several horses that he’s helped where no other vet could figure out what was wrong. So now he’ll come out and I don’t know, read his aura or something.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Okay, don’t judge - please laugh with (and at!) me. A few weeks before my horse started headshaking another boarder had this very “alternative” vet out. As he walked by my horse he commented “oh dear, you have a bad headache my friend!” and quickly popped the laser on him.

And … he’s coming out tomorrow afternoon.

I feel super silly. I don’t believe in stuff like that at all, but I mean… he IS a vet afterall. And I know of several horses that he’s helped where no other vet could figure out what was wrong. So now he’ll come out and I don’t know, read his aura or something.

I think that’s fabulous! Im excited for you to hopefully get a cure

 

[AUB]

So… that was ehm… interesting! The vet is, as I said, very alternative. He actually doesn’t touch the horse very much but feels on his own body where there is blockage in the meridian lines… I think?!

Anyway, he said stuff about the hormones being imbalanced from before my horse was gelded (he was gelded late because he was chosen for the stallion licensing as a 3 year old) and something about the 12th meridian line and also found something in the left shoulder (which I definitely know is true). Now I’m very curious to see if what he’s done has helped at all or if it was just an amusing show

 

[poiuytrewq]

It could be worth talking to Tim Thomson Jones (ex racehorse trainer, now horse allergy person). Google the HTJ Centre. He isnt that easy to get hold of - you have to ring him! He treated a horse for a friend of mine for a Candida overgrowth that was causing inflammation and that made the horse headshake. It is all quite odd, but he does have success!

I had this guy out years ago. I honestly got sucked into the whole thing. I was ready and willing to try anything and this set up sounded professional.
The guy is really nice, However all he does is hold something on the horse and stands with his hand on the horse and other hand outstretched. If his partner can push the outstretched hand down the horse is allergic to that item.
I got a price before he came out, maybe about £150 and explained he could do further testing on top for extra. Fine i figured id give the basic a try.
He told me the horse was only allergic to maize, nothing else. Fine with dust etc (he very much wasn't!)
Gave me some grapefruit capsules to treat his candida overgrowth- in my case causing intense itching and coughing and billed me nearly £400
Its a scam, there is absolutely no scientific evidence to back testing like this up and had i known ( had i asked first) that this was his method I'd never have had him out.
I paid half and never paid the other half and he never asked for it which made me annoyed id paid at all and think he knew he was pushing his luck.

 

[Sandy200]

The one thing that stood out to me was that you were by a rape field. I had a horse years ago that became a bad headshaker suddenly, and was unrideable. I had no proof of the cause, but it happened at the same time the next door farm planted rape. The only thing that really improved it was moving to a different yard away from the rape - while he never stopped completely, it became much more manageable and we did go back to eventing. Is it a possibility to try a different area /yard?

 

[poiuytrewq]

If it was rape it would have stopped or at least be much improved by now.
Unless rape triggered but then other pollens kept it going perhaps

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

So… that was ehm… interesting! The vet is, as I said, very alternative. He actually doesn’t touch the horse very much but feels on his own body where there is blockage in the meridian lines… I think?!

Anyway, he said stuff about the hormones being imbalanced from before my horse was gelded (he was gelded late because he was chosen for the stallion licensing as a 3 year old) and something about the 12th meridian line and also found something in the left shoulder (which I definitely know is true). Now I’m very curious to see if what he’s done has helped at all or if it was just an amusing show

Thats weird because my head shaker gelding was cut at 4 but I know he has had issues to cause that afterwards.

Sounds a bit hocus pocus though I must admit hope you didn't pay too much!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I had this guy out years ago. I honestly got sucked into the whole thing. I was ready and willing to try anything and this set up sounded professional.
The guy is really nice, However all he does is hold something on the horse and stands with his hand on the horse and other hand outstretched. If his partner can push the outstretched hand down the horse is allergic to that item.
I got a price before he came out, maybe about £150 and explained he could do further testing on top for extra. Fine i figured id give the basic a try.
He told me the horse was only allergic to maize, nothing else. Fine with dust etc (he very much wasn't!)
Gave me some grapefruit capsules to treat his candida overgrowth- in my case causing intense itching and coughing and billed me nearly £400
Its a scam, there is absolutely no scientific evidence to back testing like this up and had i known ( had i asked first) that this was his method I'd never have had him out.
I paid half and never paid the other half and he never asked for it which made me annoyed id paid at all and think he knew he was pushing his luck.

Amazing how people get away with this

 

[AUB]

The one thing that stood out to me was that you were by a rape field. I had a horse years ago that became a bad headshaker suddenly, and was unrideable. I had no proof of the cause, but it happened at the same time the next door farm planted rape. The only thing that really improved it was moving to a different yard away from the rape - while he never stopped completely, it became much more manageable and we did go back to eventing. Is it a possibility to try a different area /yard?

I would be very sad to leave the yard, but of course if rape is the cause of the headshaking I would have to find somewhere else.

But the rape doesn’t bloom anymore and it’s been raining for days on end now, there shouldn’t be any pollen from it in the air. And he’s as bad as ever, maybe even worse…

I’m still hoping for a miracle, the crazy vet said it could take 3-4 days before his adjustments worked. Today is day 4… *fingers crossed*

 

[AUB]

So far there’s no improvement.

I’ll just try to upload a video, maybe someone notices something I don’t?

 

[meleeka]

It’s unusual I think that he’s holding his head so high, although that might be nothing to do with it. My headshaker carried his nose low as though trying to avoid something, like when it’s heavy rain.

I think in your shoes I’d get a decent vet involved at this point.

ETA. Mine started when there was rape nearby, but didn’t stop when it went. It just seemed to start the problem.

 

[AUB]

And this is how he was in February.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

I would see if your horse is improved after the Rape is harvested. One of my distant relatives was an ENT surgeon and he always used to say that this was awful stuff for people with asthma, breathing difficulties, allergic reactions etc. His clinic was fullest when the Rape was in flower, he always used to say this!

I had the sweetest mare; my vet sent some video footage of her headshaking up to Bristol vet hospital and sadly she was diagnosed with trigeminal nerve headshaking and her condition worsened to the degree that the worst decision had to be made. Sorry this isn't what you want to hear.

Right now you are in that frustrating period of working out what the heck is going on. You can spend a lot of money doing this......... but you can't not do it, and I emphasise in your sheer frustration as well as concern.

You will be given lots of "advice" and stuff to "try". The one thing I would press you NOT to "try" is acupuncture. This has to be administered by a vet; and I tried it with my girl. I hated doing it to her but it had to be tried. It achieved nothing sadly. What it actually did was to make her needle-phobic. I understand now that the ONLY acupuncture that is effective for this condition is "electro-acupuncture" and for this the horse needs to be sedated. But in hindsight I really wish I hadn't done it to my girl.

So sorry you are in this situation.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would see if your horse is improved after the Rape is harvested. One of my distant relatives was an ENT surgeon and he always used to say that this was awful stuff for people with asthma, breathing difficulties, allergic reactions etc. His clinic was fullest when the Rape was in flower, he always used to say this!

I had the sweetest mare; my vet sent some video footage of her headshaking up to Bristol vet hospital and sadly she was diagnosed with trigeminal nerve headshaking and her condition worsened to the degree that the worst decision had to be made. Sorry this isn't what you want to hear.

Right now you are in that frustrating period of working out what the heck is going on. You can spend a lot of money doing this......... but you can't not do it, and I emphasise in your sheer frustration as well as concern.

You will be given lots of "advice" and stuff to "try". The one thing I would press you NOT to "try" is acupuncture. This has to be administered by a vet; and I tried it with my girl. I hated doing it to her but it had to be tried. It achieved nothing sadly. What it actually did was to make her needle-phobic. I understand now that the ONLY acupuncture that is effective for this condition is "electro-acupuncture" and for this the horse needs to be sedated. But in hindsight I really wish I hadn't done it to my girl.

So sorry you are in this situation.

Most of our rape has been cut now it's all stubble.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It's very hard to tell as he has a rug on in the February video but I don't think his hind end looks the same in the head shaking video.

I would have a proper lack of performance work up done at a really good equine hospital.

I paused a few stills from each video and in the Feb one his tracking up properly and evenly in each one, the head shaking one he doesn't track up at all like the Feb one, ok you could say it's the distraction from the head shaking but it's worth looking into.

 

[ycbm]

He reminds me of my TB with neck arthritis at C5/6/7, looking as if he's trying to pull his neck up up out of his chest at the front. Have neck x rays been suggested? Like PvB I also think he looks odd through the back and in the hind end action so I would be starting with a performance workup.

You must be gutted, he was such a beautiful mover back in February.
.

 

[scats]

Another who can see a change in his action from Feb to now. Obviously this might be due to his head being held high and back hollower but it might be somewhere else to investigate. I think I’d be tempted to do a work up or at least get some neck X-rays done.
He’s a beautiful horse, you must be really upset and frustrated about this.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Another who can see a change in his action from Feb to now. Obviously this might be due to his head being held high and back hollower but it might be somewhere else to investigate. I think I’d be tempted to do a work up or at least get some neck X-rays done.
He’s a beautiful horse, you must be really upset and frustrated about this.

He is a beautiful and grey horses are not my thing but the first video is a very horse to the second one.

 

[AUB]

First of all, thank you all for your replies and kind words. I totally agree (even if he does his best to NOT be a grey most of the time!)
I also agree that it’s like seeing two different horses and I’m not sure it’s only the difference between being fit and winning medium classes and having done next to nothing in months.

He’s not sore when the chiropractor palpates his neck and back, but it’s definitely on the list of things to look into. Luckily I had every inch of him x-rayed when I bought him.

I think it’s safe to rule out trigeminal neuralgia. I don’t think it’s possible to ignore that pain and if I put out a few poles or lunge him through a puddle so he needs to be more aware of his feet he doesn’t headshake. As soon as he is through the puddle he does it again. So whatever is bothering him he can actually “ignore” when something else takes enough of his attention.

 

[ycbm]

I think it’s safe to rule out trigeminal neuralgia.

So do I. The ones I've seen, including my own have at the least been very reactive to wind and reactive to sun.
.

 

[foxy1]

Was his neck xrayed when you bought him? I know necks are not routinely looked at in the UK, although I believe they should be.
Beautiful horse, significant difference in stride length between the two videos.