Heart disease / congestive heart failure

[lucy_108]

I just wondered if anyone has any experience of either condition with their horses.

I called my vets out yesterday as my old boy (22yo) legs had filled up overnight 48hours previous but no amount of turnout/walking/movement was bringing them down. It wasn't your standard puffy legs from being stood in overnight (as he normally gets in the winter anyway), this was more like a solid filling and I was worried about cellulitis/lymphangitis. However, his legs were not hot and he was quite happy for me to prod, poke and squeeze. I assumed he may just need bute/antibs to help reduce swelling for a week or so.

However, when my vet came out she listened to his heart and discovered a significant heart murmur that was not there 6 weeks ago (he had his teeth done and was sedated). She was quite concerned as she said it was really very loud and his heart was beating in an abnormal rhythm. This alone did not lead her to the question mark over heart disease, but this coupled with his legs filling, general lethargic-ness and also a cough that we have not been able to shift (despite two rounds of Subestin/ventipulmin). He was diagnosed with COPD/asthma about 7/8 years ago and always struggles with a cough when the seasons change but usually one round of ventipulmin sorts him out and he's fine for the rest of that season, but this just hasn't and has been accompanied by crackly breathing.

I was previously looking at all of these symptoms on their own, but my vet feels they could be linked together and is concerned about heart disease / congestive heart failure. It has taken me 24 hours to even process this as I was simply expecting her to give me some antibiotics and bute and we'd be sorted. He could be referred to a cardiologist, but this is £700 just to diagnose, there is nothing they can do to treat or cure it, it would be a case of keeping him comfortable. My vet has said for what we're looking at, there is no treatment that is effective or that falls within a reasonable financial limit (as most of it is used in small animals, therefore the doseage would be much much higher for a horse).

Looking for experiences - good or bad, so I know what i'm potentially dealing with.

TIA.

 

[meleeka]

No advice, but just to say my mare had an unexpected murmur when she had colic. When she was checked the next day when she wasn’t in pain, the murmur had gone. I think in a 22 year old, I’d probably try and forget about it, as much as possible and support any ailments that may or may not be linked.

I’ve never heard of heart disease, so will be watching this thread with interest.

 

[SEL]

Is he retired? My best friends TB was diagnosed with a significant murmur in her 20s but she was no longer ridden so the vet was happy to leave be - she went a few years later to something unrelated. They wouldn't have recommended riding in case her heart gave out.

Always a shock when you were expecting something straightforward.

 

[nagblagger]

My old mare (30 odd years) had sudden weight loss and shortness of breath on simple exertion, i was hoping it was something simple eg teeth, but when the vet listened to her chest they could hear various abnormal noises and rapid heart rate. As it was 'sudden' over a few days / a week, we think she had a cardiac event a week previously (eg heart attack) and the decision was made to PTS then as i didn't want her to suffer or find her down in the field one day.
Sorry it's not a happy ending - but realistic. Watch your horse, you will know what is best to do and when the time is right.

 

[rabatsa]

One of our RDA ponies got congested heart failure aged only ten. We ended up having her put down but the insurance would not pay out as she could still stand and eat grass in the field. The vet reckoned a short while at the most before she was down and unable to do these things to qualify but we could not put her through those final days of misery for the money.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Yes, my very elderly Clydesdale mare had a swollen knee, vet came out, said it wouldn't be safe for anyone to ride her (which wasn't a problem) and that nothing could be done for her heart. We gave her a few weeks until everyone who needed to be there could be and had her pts in the October half-term holiday

 

[humblepie]

An old horse of mine had a heart problem which the vet noticed when doing flu vacs when she must have been in her 20s. She would get some swelling under the girth area. She was retired by then after a very busy competition career and she lived for probably another 3 or 4 years. A little vague I’m afraid as many years ago. I never knew her exact age as pre passports. Hope you are feeling okay yourself. All the very best.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I did have an occasion when vet who came out to do vaccine said that elderly cob had a heart problem. Then dentist came and could find no problem. So I got senior vet out and he could find no problem either. I'm not sure how much longer she was with us (a few years) but was pts from a completely unrelated issue.

 

[AmyMay]

Heart failure is truly devastating. I’m afraid I’d be making final arrangements on Monday morning.

 

[meleeka]

Heart failure is truly devastating. I’m afraid I’d be making final arrangements on Monday morning.

I’d probably want a little bit more investigation, or a second opinion first. I don’t think I’d trust that my vets were that good, in OP’s situation. Some of those symptoms could also be cushings or a virus, or anything really.

 

[ycbm]

Heart failure is truly devastating. I’m afraid I’d be making final arrangements on Monday morning.

I agree if it's definitely heart failure. I don't think people realise in general that heart failure causes the lungs to fill with fluid, it's not just a bit of a weakness in the blood supply that can be managed by avoiding exertion. It's a horrible death if left to run its course.
.

 

[Britestar]

Not mine but a friends horse very much the same.
Cough that wouldn't resolve, some leg puffiness. Went to vets for a scope for cough, discovered he was in acute heart failure.
They were so worried that they wouldn't even let him travel home to be pts, so was done there.

 

[winnie]

Yes, very sadly similar happened to my 30yo Dales Pony last year. He started with swelling on his belly and sheath. Vet confirmed a heart issue. We tested for anything else which it could have been going on alongside the heart problem but nothing else could be found. I was told there was no treatment for this type of heart failure. We kept him comfortable as long as possible while he was still happy and enjoying life but then sadly called it a day when his appetite began to fade. I feel for you, it is not easy but I am quite sure Frankie didn't suffer.

 

[tyner]

Very sorry to hear about this especially the speed at which the murmur has happened it must be quite a shock. My experience mirrors what others have said here, there's very little you can do but the kindest thing.

 

[marmalade76]

Heart failure is truly devastating. I’m afraid I’d be making final arrangements on Monday morning.

Same, sounds like he has all the signs.

It is more than ten years ago now but the horse I had then was diagnosed with Afib. I was told by my vet that this would lead to heart disease and then heart failure and that once in heart failure there's no going back. Signs of heart failure are swelling and lethargy, coughing can also be a sign of heart issues.

My horse slowed down gradually but was fine until one day he had filled legs despite being out in the field and was very lethargic. He was PTS the following morning, by that time, he could only walk a few steps before he had to stop for a rest.

 

[marmalade76]

I’d probably want a little bit more investigation, or a second opinion first. I don’t think I’d trust that my vets were that good, in OP’s situation. Some of those symptoms could also be cushings or a virus, or anything really.

I disagree, a significant heart murmur with abnormal rhythm plus swelling, lethargy and coughing is pretty obvious. Heart failure is a horrid thing to go through.

 

[BronsonNutter]

I disagree, a significant heart murmur with abnormal rhythm plus swelling, lethargy and coughing is pretty obvious. Heart failure is a horrid thing to go through.

^ this.
A murmur on its own can be nothing - and may indeed normalise (heard plenty of murmurs that when rechecked havent been there). A sudden onset murmur and arrhythmia, with that combination of clinical signs is certainly much more concerning.

To the original poster, I'm sorry you and your horse are going through this. It's certainly worth considering having the cardiologist check your horse out, even if just for closure for you if needed, but please don't leave it long to make a decision if your horse is deteriorating at all.