heart murmur in veteran horse

titchward

titchward

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just wondering if anyone can give me any advice, i got a 21yr old 16hh tb 2 weeks ago on loan with a view to buy, had the vet out today to do tetanus and flu jabs, the vet discovered he has a very loud heart murmur which after speaking to his owner she didn't know anything about it and hadn't been picked up by her vet in the past so has come on in the last year.
the vet has advised us to have it checked again in 6 months and to keep an eye out for symptoms such as weak moments, fainting and coughing.
the fainting part of this has scared me abit as im only 5.1" and wouldn't stand a chance if he went down on me, hes a beautiful horse with a matching nature and although only had 2 weeks im attatched.
any advice would be gratefully received
 
I have a 28yr old still in full work, and he has had a significant heart murmur since I got him. My vets checks on it every time he's here, but basically it's to be expected in a horse of his age. I know it's a risk riding him, but it makes him so happy to do his job, that I'm willing to risk him dying under me one day to keep him happy.
 
my old lady developed a severe murmur when she got older, she went on happily until the age of 26 but when there were signs of it being at the stage that it sounds like your vet is describing I retired her completely, this was in her early 20's (I had known that she had it and it was progressively worsening for some years before that).

it's not just the risk to the horse and the rider but potentially drivers or any other passers by that could get hurt if something happens under saddle, a collapsing horse isn't necessarily going to fall in a convenient direction and could fall on the rider or into the path of traffic.

Personally I didn't want it to get to that stage with my horse, she'd earned her retirement and I couldn't have lived with myself if it had ended that way.

Probably not what you wanted to hear but just my experience of it.
 
Did the vet give a grade for the murmur and any other information?

My old lad developed a murmur in old age (27+) and it progressed quite quickly to a 5. With it came associated weight loss and episodes where he zoned out. He eventually died (29) of liver disease and I can't help thinking the conditions were somehow linked.
 
thanks for your replies, the vet hasnt said whay stage she thinks its at but did say that its the loudest she had ever heard
 
I would ask your vet if he can do the job you want. I have had 2 with long term heart murmurs and it made no difference to what they could do at all. I cannot remember what level they were though.
 
I think the issue here is the "loan with a view to buy"

If it was your horse then you would look at manaagement and the risks to you, including insurance if it was to cause an accident, they might not cover you.

I wouldn't buy the horse with this problem, therefore it would only be fair to return it to its owner immediately.
 
My horse was only 12 when the vet picked up his murmur. She said it was superficial and that it would make no difference to the work he could do. Two months later I lost him to an aeortic rupture while we were out on a hack. I know its very rare that it weeks out like that but a strong healthy heart is now top of my list. That said I know many many horses with murmurs going great guns but that is just my personal experience x
 
The old horse I knew with one was already retired, & the vet did say it wasn't impossible that hers could cause her to drop dead if she got over excited hooning round the field. However, despite regularly acting like a loon, she was pts for unrelated reasons a few years after.
In your case op I wouldn't consider buying. If the horse is ideal & you want it, you could suggest just loaning to the owner, till such time the murmer becomes an issue. Everything else aside, I doubt insurance will cover future treatment, meaning you could be left with a long & costly retirement.
 
My friend's 18 year old had a murmur which was checked 6 monthly by the vet. He died under her in canter a week before his check was due. Luckily she was thrown clear.

I have another friend who has a younger horse with a murmur (currently 10). He is fit and well and the vet monitors his when jabs are done.

I would discuss the level of murmur with the vet but I personally wouldn't buy. My mare is 21 and she had her jabs and teeth done yesterday - I always fear the vet is going to say she has a heart murmur as I don't know what I would do given her age. Luckily she is fine.
 
OP do not ride him it does not sound like he's safe to ride at all , it's simply just not worth the risk of him going down on you.
 
If it is a significant heart murmur then I really think the horse ought to be retired to prevent an accident and potentially give him longer. Often a murmur in age is associated with a degraded heart valve and often accompanied by a form of cardiomyopathy (enlarged heart). The animal/person affected then is said to have heart failure as they cannot pump enough blood round efficiently to pick up the oxygen they need, and in later stages develop fluid on the lungs. Reducing workload will lessen the need for efficient oxygen exchange (obviously they can still charge round in the field). At all times they have an increased risk of sudden cardiac events which would cause sudden collapse. Unless it is mild then I feel his owner ought to take him back and plan for retirement. The only way of knowing just how badly the heart is affected is to have a cardiologist look at him, maybe the owner would consider this.
 
I would like to know what grade the murmur was before I considered buying. A loud murmur does not mean it is dangerous.

I have had 2 horses with a murmur one as a 10 year old and went on to compete at a high level and the second one because of a virus, which has now gone.
 
My 23 yr old has grade 4 heart murmour and the vet advised us to retire him. He is quite happy being a lawn mower now but I don't think I would risk riding him. He was a very fizzy ride in his ridden days and I wouldnt want to put his heart under any stress.
 
You really need an ECG to know what,s going on, my horse had one and it showed his heart beat to be all over the place, he was 17 at the time, he then went into liver failure , secondary to the heart problems and I lost him at 18!
 
Years ago, a friend was dropped from the long list for the Australian Olympic team because his horse had a 'severe' heart murmur! He was 10 then. At 22, he was still bloody hard to hold on the xc-course and was team chasing with the best of them!

Some heart murmurs are 'significant'; some are 'sinister'; some are irrelevent. One of my old broodies developed a Grade 4 murmur and we thought her time was up. She produced another foal and reared it - and when we checked her heart that year, the murmur was gone. Sometimes it's just the result of a virus.

The ONLY way to know if a heart murmur is potentially 'dangerous' is to have the heart u/s scanned by a cardiology specialist! It's not particularly expensive - I had one done on a 2 year old filly by Mark Patteson at Vale Vets, Dursley(Gloucs.) who is one of the best - he ended up having to do it on our lorry as the filly flatly refused to UNload - about £200! Any of the big Vet hospitals will have someone. Just Google Equine Cardiologist and look for one in your area.
 
My mare has had a progressively louder murmur since she was in her late 20s. She showjumped & was still winning tophies at the age of 29, when she retired due to doing a tendon out hacking. She carried on hacking for another few years. The murmur is now the loudest the vet has heard, but she's 39 & seems happy enough. I've never seen her faint.

She too was *impossible* to hold out hacking, & at the age of 34 was meant to be accompanying my 4 yo as a steady companion, but she put her head between her knees, had a good buck & took off. Not v helpful as my 4 yo then joined in...

The vet has never said anything about retiring her on grounds of the murmur.
 
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