Heart vs Head - Reitiring my young horse options

[pollypock1211]

Thanks for everyones understanding comments - it seems that i am not the only one who has been through this. Interesting comment from PaddyMonty from what the vets said is kind of the same lines im thinking of, and sorry you had to go through that.

Its hard as mentioned before he is (to look at) a picture of health. Hes chunky and up to weight, his eyes sparkle, his coat is shiny and he seems happy in his routine. Hes not hopingly lame and shuffling around the only gait abnormality he has atm is he drags his toes, wears them down quite bad and often stumbles behind (he appears to be very lazy)- he also has a cross action gait and brushes badly behind but that is it. How do i know he’s not in pain and just coping with it well or has a high pain threshold ?? If in pain would he be defiantly lame in the field, would i defiantly know about it.

 

[PaddyMonty]

How do i know he’s not in pain and just coping with it well or has a high pain threshold ?? If in pain would he be defiantly lame in the field, would i defiantly know about it.

You can never be sure. Any prey animal instictively will hide to their best ability any lameness, pain or weakness. Some are better at it than others and thats t he probelm we face in this sort of situation. Severe pain they obviously cant hide but low level pain is a different matter.

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks for everyones understanding comments - it seems that i am not the only one who has been through this. Interesting comment from PaddyMonty from what the vets said is kind of the same lines im thinking of, and sorry you had to go through that.

Its hard as mentioned before he is (to look at) a picture of health. Hes chunky and up to weight, his eyes sparkle, his coat is shiny and he seems happy in his routine. Hes not hopingly lame and shuffling around the only gait abnormality he has atm is he drags his toes, wears them down quite bad and often stumbles behind (he appears to be very lazy)- he also has a cross action gait and brushes badly behind but that is it. How do i know he’s not in pain and just coping with it well or has a high pain threshold ?? If in pain would he be defiantly lame in the field, would i defiantly know about it.

It depends how well you know him. I currently have two field ornaments, my mare who I know inside out and who I retired 2 years ago after she sustained a career ending shoulder injury. She is always 1 tenth lame in the field but not on bute and I KNEW she was happy. Absolutely no doubt about it whatsoever. Her lameness is mechanical and not painful (vet assured me, but I can tell in any case). However, sadly she developed laminitis two weeks ago and it turns out it was due to Cushings. Now she is on box rest and two danilon a day. Much as I adore her and it would utterly break my heart to do so, I would put her to sleep if this became a regular occurance. It is no life for her if we can't get it under control.

My other horse has DJD in both hocks and recently had surgery for kissing spine. Before the surgery I was not sure how happy he was in the field as I have only had him 18 months and do not know him like I know my mare. Part of me was hoping the vets would say he was in too much pain and to PTS as it would take all the wondering and worrying away from me. However, I decided to put him through surgery and the difference in him is unbelievable. He is the bounciest cheekiest horse ever. Everyone comments that he is like a pogo stick when he is turned out. He obviously feels SO well! I don't know if I will be able to ride him but I DO know he will be a very happy field ornament and it made me realise how uncomfortable he must have been in the field before his op.

 

[VoR]

Head over heart every time, when you start to feel that the horse is unhappy (maybe see it in a change in behaviour) or in pain you owe it to them to do the right thing. Both myself and OH have had to make that decision, both times the horses 'helped us decide'.

Good luck.

 

[crabbymare]

Thanks for everyones understanding comments - it seems that i am not the only one who has been through this. Interesting comment from PaddyMonty from what the vets said is kind of the same lines im thinking of, and sorry you had to go through that.

Its hard as mentioned before he is (to look at) a picture of health. Hes chunky and up to weight, his eyes sparkle, his coat is shiny and he seems happy in his routine. Hes not hopingly lame and shuffling around the only gait abnormality he has atm is he drags his toes, wears them down quite bad and often stumbles behind (he appears to be very lazy)- he also has a cross action gait and brushes badly behind but that is it. How do i know he’s not in pain and just coping with it well or has a high pain threshold ?? If in pain would he be defiantly lame in the field, would i defiantly know about it.

Very difficult to say if he is in pain or not. You could say that he must be in pain to not want to move properly which is making him drag his toes and stumble could also be why he has the odd gait and brushes badly. Or you could say that the reason he does that is mechanical. Personally I would think that even if it is mechanical he is in discomfort and that he must also have a certain level of pain as I doubt he would go from being pain free to so bad when you rode him plus if its in both legs he would probably not show as lame in the way a horse with something wrong in one leg would.
Horrible situation for you to be in especially as he is young and looks well, only you can decide what to do though and whichever way you go with him you are thinking it through properly and not making a snap decision.

 

[pollypock1211]

Again its difficult as i have only had him 3 years - he came straight to me with this problem and was diganosed 6months after buying him with OCD and OA. So i dont really know him any different. He is quite tempremental and can be moody in the winter - but this is as i have always known him but i have always know him with his problems so maybe he has always been in pain and had it that long he knows how to 'cope with it' (im not sure). Maybe he was a different horse beforehand before all this started.

He had regular physio before and after surgery - she said he was so tense and believed he was in pain before surgery - especially after i had worked him he was very tense through his back. I asked why i hadnt noticed and if he was in so much pain why hadent he shown me by bolting or throwing me off - her response was that she believed he was a 'tryer' and she felt he had cope with his pain very well and for a long time after surgery she said he was a different horse and had improved loads.

I was thinking about getting her back out to reassess him to tell me if she thought he was in pain again. I have also looked up about thermal imaging and discussed this with my vet yesterday, who thinks it is a bad idea as it not reliable and can give false readings so prehaps ill not confuse myself even more with that..x

 

[Tinsel Trouble]

It's very expensive but deep oscillation therapy can cut through stiff muscle and work the underneath muscles that often cause the stiffness and muscle problems in the first place. You will have to search for someone trained to use it in horses but it has brilliant outcomes in people with severly damaged muscles!

This will not fix the bone and joint issues.

 

[Wagtail]

Again its difficult as i have only had him 3 years - he came straight to me with this problem and was diganosed 6months after buying him with OCD and OA. So i dont really know him any different. He is quite tempremental and can be moody in the winter - but this is as i have always known him but i have always know him with his problems so maybe he has always been in pain and had it that long he knows how to 'cope with it' (im not sure). Maybe he was a different horse beforehand before all this started.

He had regular physio before and after surgery - she said he was so tense and believed he was in pain before surgery - especially after i had worked him he was very tense through his back. I asked why i hadnt noticed and if he was in so much pain why hadent he shown me by bolting or throwing me off - her response was that she believed he was a 'tryer' and she felt he had cope with his pain very well and for a long time after surgery she said he was a different horse and had improved loads.

I was thinking about getting her back out to reassess him to tell me if she thought he was in pain again. I have also looked up about thermal imaging and discussed this with my vet yesterday, who thinks it is a bad idea as it not reliable and can give false readings so prehaps ill not confuse myself even more with that..x

Sounds like getting your physio back is a very good idea.

 

[ladyt25]

Very hard decision but you're the only one who knows him really. However, I am always off the opinion that, if the horse is sound and seems healthy and happy (without having to be on painkillers) then there is no reason why they should not be retired to a field - most come fine with this. BUT this is hugely dependant on your circumstances - we have our own land so it's not an issue for us but I can understand if paying for livery, it's not much fun forking out bills for a horse you can't do anything with.

I would certainly get the physio out if you feel they helped before. My first bought pony developed spavin at the age of about 13 and back then all we were told was to give him bute each day and when the bones fused he would be ok. He was always a little stiff at the beginning of a ride. The bute caused liver problems so we took him off it - he was still competing and hacking regularly but he then had fall XC. A few days after he was crippled. We had the physio out and she explained how he'd wrenched so many muscles in the fall, they had no not settled as they should hence he was in a lot of pain. After 2 treatments he was sounder than he'd ever been!

I would certainly recommend it as, when a horse is favouring a particualr leg for a prolonged time it puts stresses on other muscles as they are compensating so I have found having a good session with a physio relieves this.

Ultimately, like you have said, there is no magic cure as it is a degenerative condition but you can do things to alleviate the discomfort - magnetic boots as an example. There are also various supplements on the market, you could maybe research in to to see if there's anything to help support his system or slow down the degeneration. I feed my older horse Topspec 10:10 joint support - more as a preventative. It may be worth looking at something like that though. I am not expert by any means but I like to try things before I dismiss them I guess!

 

[CBFan]

Very Hard decision and only you can make it but these animals are expensive to keep and you have to consider yourself as well as your horse. If you are on livery this has a big impact on your decision. and I don't think many people would blame you for PTS in this situation.

It DOES sound like your horse is in a degree of pain or discomfort judging by his mood and gait etc. Mine is similar and I am about to start the palava of getting it investigated. He's only 4

 

[misst]

You poor thing. It is heartbreaking I know having been in a similar situation.

Our 5yo had PSD then intermittent front lameness which was due to collateral ligament problems which lead to SI problems. By 9 he was flatwork only and by 10 he was retired to hacking. Like yours he had everything possible done for him. He was very very beautiful and quite talented when sound He was a hack for a year until he was obviously not happy ridden even on bute. He then had a few months in the field where he looked amazing and stayed sound and bute free. My daughter had nothing to ride at this time so just pottered on other peoples but had bought a foal with a view to having something to bring on when he retired - but he had got worse more quickly than expected.

After a few months in the field at the age of just 12, he was out of insurance on all legs and his back, he went suddenly very lame. He was PTS a couple of days later with no official diagnosis. My daughter suspected DDFT at the time but looking back it could have been anything. The good news was that we had done our very best and he had had a few months of really lovely quality of life. If you can do this even just until next winter you may feel better. He may, like ours, make his own decision, but either way you will have secured his future. We have never regretted those few months and some of my happiest memories of him are of those times.

I wish you good luck with whatever you decide but don't let what other people think force you into either PTS or keeping him. If you can manage some "thinking time" while he just potters around then go for it.

 

[muff747]

You poor thing. It is heartbreaking I know having been in a similar situation.

Our 5yo had PSD then intermittent front lameness which was due to collateral ligament problems which lead to SI problems. By 9 he was flatwork only and by 10 he was retired to hacking. Like yours he had everything possible done for him. He was very very beautiful and quite talented when sound He was a hack for a year until he was obviously not happy ridden even on bute. He then had a few months in the field where he looked amazing and stayed sound and bute free. My daughter had nothing to ride at this time so just pottered on other peoples but had bought a foal with a view to having something to bring on when he retired - but he had got worse more quickly than expected.

After a few months in the field at the age of just 12, he was out of insurance on all legs and his back, he went suddenly very lame. He was PTS a couple of days later with no official diagnosis. My daughter suspected DDFT at the time but looking back it could have been anything. The good news was that we had done our very best and he had had a few months of really lovely quality of life. If you can do this even just until next winter you may feel better. He may, like ours, make his own decision, but either way you will have secured his future. We have never regretted those few months and some of my happiest memories of him are of those times.

I wish you good luck with whatever you decide but don't let what other people think force you into either PTS or keeping him. If you can manage some "thinking time" while he just potters around then go for it.

I know I keep banging on about this but anything involving mystery lameness or related to SL or any ligaments throughout the body could be ESPA - previously known as DSLD. It is little recognised in this country unless the fetlocks have dropped right down, but they don't in all cases and it can hit foals and any breed of horse now.
Look here http://www.dsldequine.info/

 

[milz88]

Thanks for your advice.. its diffcult because my heads telling me the most sensible thing is to do is PTS as i am prolonging the disease and why wait for him to deteriorate, and then theres the financial reasons etc I havent got the space or money to keep another horse which i would love to have to carry on and compete but then i feel very selfish for thinking these reasons then my heart is telling me to do everything possible and while he seems happy keep him in retirement stop thinking about money - its not his fault and he owes me nothing x

I am in exactly the same position with a competition horse at the moment too. With all the same thoughts going through my head, so you are definitely not the only one, and I think in your position PTS would not be the wrong option in the slightest, with regard to his comfort, costs, future etc.

 

[pollypock1211]

It wouldnt be so bad if i could keep him at grass all year round but he has always come in during winter on a night and is very 'mesh' so this option wouldnt really be fair for him either. Well i think for now i will keep him a few month, spoil him rotton! and see how he goes. Whether the insurance pay up for his front lameness investigation or not ive decided not to go through with it - just the travelling alone to the vets is stressfull enough for him! thanks again for all the comments