Heartbroken & huge dilemma. Help?

Just to put the other side of the story;
Imagine you are a dealer. A client came to see one of your horses, tried horse, took bloods, had horse 5 Stage vetted and it passed with no problems.
Now, 6 months down the line, you hear that the horse has a very mild unlevelness ('such a low level that nerve blocking is not an option'), and the rider is not experienced enough to cope with the horse (although you hear that the horse is fine when ridden by a girl who 'just pushed her to the limit and worked her with a different attitude').
What would you do?
If the rider couldn't cope - you would expect the horse to be returned much earlier. Likewise, if the horse was lame at the point of sale, you'd expect the vet to have discovered it - after all, is the dealer meant to be more expert than a vet?
Under the Sale of Goods Act 1959, a horse has to be 'fit for the purpose' and 'of merchantable quality' - but it was at the time of sale, and by having it 5 Stage vetted, that actually reduces your claim.
Just trying to give a balanced view - obviously from what has been posted here - maybe the 'full story' is different.
Good luck, anyway.
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I think it sounds all a bit odd. Sorry.

At this stage I'm not sure you can assume that something was amiss from the seller.

You've had no extensive veterinary work done on her to see what the problem was - and the horse doesn't have to be excessively lame for nerve blocks.

I would ask your vet to do a full lameness work up - or refer you to someone who can, and go from there.
 
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Well, thanks for the support(!)

I can't even type I'm crying so much.

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Stop it!

You are getting loads of support - and we are trying to understand your situation.

But simply put - no one has investigated the problem thoroughly. Until this is done, you can't know what is causing the problem.

make an appointment with a good equine vet to find out what the problem is. Your insurance company will pay for this. So there should be no worries over the expense.
 
I appreciate that this doesn't help you to solve your problem, but please don't consider using/selling your mare as a broodmare.

Temperament is even more heritable than conformation, so breeding from a mare with behavioural issues is asking for trouble. There are plenty of difficult horses out there without breeding more.

Just because a mare cannot be ridden, it is not a good enough reason to breed from her.
 
I'm sorry you feel we're not trying to help i really am.
but as you won't post the story we're all just trying to assume what has happened.
I can only imagine how upsetting this is but if you read what people have put i think we're all trying to understand what has been done to investigate, why the insurance company isn't helping etc.
As always with these things we don't know the full story but as you don't seem to want to tell us it then its making it difficult to offer constructive advice.
If your insurance company are being difficult then i'd be all over them - especially as you have a 5 stage vetting. Then its a matter of finding out exactly whats happening with the mare. At that point its a case of seeing what can be done if anything and, if you wish to, getting some advice on which party you have legal recourse on - i.e. the vet or the seller etc.
 
I think you are being a little melodramatic here.

As you state in one of your recent posts you are a first time horse owner and you do appear to be panicking somewhat.

Unless you have your horse properly assessed then you have no way of knowing where the lameness is. From your descriptions in your earlier posts it could be in the foot, it doesn't have to be in the shoulder.

Also, she doesn't seem to have been lame for very long. Unless I am reading it wrong you haven't really given her a chance to get better.

I don't think you have any comeback on the dealer or the vetting vet as she wasn't lame at the time of purchase and only appears to have gone lame several months down the line.

You don't know that the lameness isn't fixable because you haven't investigated it properly. If you can't afford a full veterinary work up or can't get the insurance company to pay (can't understand why they won't - maybe you should ask your vet to speak to them on your behalf), then perhaps the best thing to do would be to turn the horse away for a month and stop trying to lunge her etc. Give her a chance to get better on her own.
 
When we ran out of money to investigate my horse's behaviour problems and lameness, we did just that - turned him away for about 10 months in total, and gave him devils claw and glucosamine every day. He came sound for a wonderful few months, but sadly that was it, and once the devils claw was out of his system all his problems returned. What this did do though was show that the problem was indeed chronic, and that he had no quality of life without medication - by the end even bute wouldn't touch him. You might find it a good option to go down if you really love her and want to try to fix her, maybe investigate some grass livery options (assuming she's not laminitic etc) which will then keep your costs down and maybe relieve some of the pressure. It's a horrible situation but there are ways out. I have been in the absolute depths of misery with my ponies in the last few months, and people on here have given me great advice and helped me through it.
 
I agree. Turn your mare away for a few weeks and let nature take its course. You also need a chance to calm down (& I don't mean that in a patronising way) In the meantime, talk with your vet about the possible causes and get him / her to talk to your insurance company. If you are 'fully comp' and you have the assurance of a 5 stage vetting then they should pay for investigation work. Until thats done its impossible to quantify the situation and what the next steps are. If your mare is lame its very likely to lead to her behaviour problems. But behaviour could also be hormone related.
Your vet will involve the farrier, dentist a physio and probably a saddler as well.

I feel very sorry for you, but horse ownership is a mine field at the best of times and tests even the very best. I'm sure with a little time it will resolve itself. Good luck.
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This is what you do.

Ask your present vet to write a detailed report on the present condition of the horse and what he also is wrong with it.

Instruct a specialist practice of Equine Solicitors to act on behalf of your interests and advise you of taking action against the vet and the dealer.
 
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This is what you do.

Ask your present vet to write a detailed report on the present condition of the horse and what he also is wrong with it.

Instruct a specialist practice of Equine Solicitors to act on behalf of your interests and advise you of taking action against the vet and the dealer.

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Why Owlie? As no one knows what's wrong with the horse - why would you get a solicitor involved? There is not one shred of evidence to say that the horse has a problem that either the dealer knew about or was pre-existing

Horses do go lame, mine went terribly lame four months after I bought him. My first reaction was not sue the seller - but find out what was wrong. We did, it was sorted and the horse is fine.

The first thing any solicitor would tell her was to find out what was wrong with the horse. That costs money.

Several of us on this post have said the same thing - and it hasn't cost her a penny!
 
A 5 stage vetting basically says that the horse is fit for the purpose for which it is being bought at the time of the vetting The fact that behaviourial issues followed by lameness problems happened fairly soon after you got the horse home will probably not give you any comeback on the vet who carried out the inspection for you. If you suspect the horse was doped, then by all means have the bloods tested. As others have said, your insurance company cannot possibly state that there was a pre-existing condition when the horse passed a 5 stage vetting - unless you are insured with the company that is Entertaining in their excuses and Leisurely about payment. If Trading Standards think you have little comeback on the dealer, they are probably right. Before you make any decisions about the horse's future, you do need to know what exactly is the matter with her. As she is insured, she should be covered for full investigations. Once you know what is the problem, you can then decide the best way forward with advice from the professionals involved in the diagnosis. Good luck.
 
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Horses do go lame, mine went terribly lame four months after I bought him. My first reaction was not sue the seller - but find out what was wrong. We did, it was sorted and the horse is fine.



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Mine did too. I got it investigated, it probably can't be fixed, but they can't say for definite for a year so no LOU. The horse has also had extreme behavioural problems since I bought her - the sellers, being geniuses, told us she's very nervous and may be touchy at first but will get used to you. So lots of perseverance with odd trips to A&E. With hindsight she should have gone straight back. The OPs horse has muscle wastage indicative that the problem was there at time of purchase, she was basically let down by the vet who did the vetting, and for this I really sympathise with her.

OP, you probably are aware that behavioural problems are often directly linked to underlying lameness. Its not fair that you are in this situation and the seller was a b'stard for selling an unsound horse. However its not an unusual situation, unfortunately. If you can diagnose and fix the lameness, the behavioural problem would probably start to improve, but I do understand the insurance being a problem when it appears the condition was pre-existing. Plus there's the likely scenario that if, as it seems, the horse has been lame a long time, the lameness can't be fixed then what do you do because you won't be covered for LOU either?

My horse's feet are pretty knackered on the inside, yet she passed a five stage vetting, has since done lots (despite behavioural problem) and been worked by a professional who made her look fantastic before going downhill and finally getting a diagnosis. She'd spent the weeks before she went to him lame on firm ground only, I sent her to bootcamp on vets advice anyway
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and she seemed to be doing well there. Just because a very strong rider can get a horse that is trying to tell you its in discomfort to operate does not mean the problem is gone - hence why so many "fixed" problem horses revert when they go back home or get sold.

I don't know what to say really that could help. You could try turning the horse away. You could try suing the seller and the vetting vet as the muscle wastage does seem to indicate old unsoundness that they should have been aware of. You could pursue the insurance validity as the horse was declared fit for purpose by a vet at the time of purchase and get it investigated if they agree to pay out. If you want an easy life you could cut your loses, get the horse PTS and buy another/save up for another/loan another. If I'd have done the last option when i first questioned my horse's soundness I'd have had enough money to buy a new horse with the money I've spent on her since. Sorry this is so long, hope it helps a bit. GOOD LUCK!!!
 
If the horse was sound for 4 months without any form of medication or painkiller in that time & only went lame after 4 months how can it be suggested that it was the sellers fault!!

Crikey I'd be a millionaire if I sued every person I'd bought a horse off because something went wrong a few months down the line.

Sadly when buyina horse (unless you are provided with a 'guarantee' as such), you are buying an animal, which may hurt itself or not feel very well at times. This can happen at any point & providing it didn't show at time of vetting there is nothing you can do about it.

As for the behavioural issues, did you contact the dealer straight away or did you wait 4 months before saying anything?
If the horse was behaving as you said I would have contacted the dealer immediatley before getting the opportunty to get attached to the horse.

Good luck with it - before you can progress with this you need a diagnosis.
 
I think you're all being very harsh - OP wanted some good vibes and encouragement - not criticism!!

This is one of the reasons that I very rarely post on here - there are a lot of very negative, critical and downright nasty comments made when people merely sometimes want a shoulder to cry on.

Quite sad, really. OP - there are a couple of other forums that you could post on where you would get a lot more positive replies, encouragement and help - PM me if you like and I'll give you the addresses.

I wish you much luck with your horse.
 
I am going through something very similar. I brought my horse for a lot of moneyas a potential top class event horse from a dealer, passed a 5 stage vetting and xrays. Two weeks later he appears to be a headshaker, and now is rearing and napping. The dealer offers on his website 'a fantastic aftersales service' where he will exchange unsuitable horses with something else of similar value. On Saturday he said he would take horse back and refund money, on sunday he goes to see horses and says in front of witnesses that he will take horse back, yet today he has changed his mind and said he thinks I should sue vet, and that horse didn't do it with him, and so he doesn't think its his problem.

What does everyone think of that scenario??
 
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I think you're all being very harsh - OP wanted some good vibes and encouragement - not criticism!!

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Where, Fruddy, has the OP been criticised? All people have done is tell her to get a full lameness work up done, and not just assume that the problem is one that the seller knew about ..............
 
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I bought a horse from a dealer in Jan this year.

It's turned out to be an absolute disaster & there's just no way out.

Can anyone with a similar experience offer some moral support via PM?

I'm in such a state it's just... I don't know what to do.

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is this the same horse that you posted about - (
1st month after we got her from the dealer - she bucked me off in the 1st week & behaviorally bucked (small) when she felt like it through fear/uncertainty. Bucked me off again in the fourth week.

Next 5 months - she was foot perfect. A super easy ride, really fun. Rubber snaffle & no noseband. Still had fresh days, the odd big spook but TRIED so hard to please.)

I would say, having been good for 5 months, then her issues were not dealers fault, you have no comeback.

You really need to have her thoroughly checked, as has been suggested.
 
Cluedo

Get an independent vet to write a report on the current condition of the horse.

Instruct an independent solicitor to act on behalf of your interests.

The dealer is responsible under current consumer law so he can not get out of it. Demand a full refund plus contribution towards your expenses.
 
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I bought a horse from a dealer in Jan this year.

It's turned out to be an absolute disaster & there's just no way out.

Can anyone with a similar experience offer some moral support via PM?

I'm in such a state it's just... I don't know what to do.

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is this the same horse that you posted about - (
1st month after we got her from the dealer - she bucked me off in the 1st week & behaviorally bucked (small) when she felt like it through fear/uncertainty. Bucked me off again in the fourth week.

Next 5 months - she was foot perfect. A super easy ride, really fun. Rubber snaffle & no noseband. Still had fresh days, the odd big spook but TRIED so hard to please.)

I would say, having been good for 5 months, then her issues were not dealers fault, you have no comeback.

You really need to have her thoroughly checked, as has been suggested.

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She's been put back into light work whilst currently obviously lame in order that we can do a full investigation.

To be fair, foot perfect was subjective point of view on my behalf - she still bolted and spooked with the odd buck but it was nothing spectacular.

It's only in the last 6 weeks that she's been in daily work, which has caused the problem to arise.

At the end of the day, I'm looking to do what's best for my horse, which means we'll probably just have to accept the loss.
 
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At the end of the day, I'm looking to do what's best for my horse, which means we'll probably just have to accept the loss.

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This is such a puzzling post. At no point have you made any reference to the suggestions made to get a full work up done.

I wonder if you have simply bought a horse that's not for you, and rather than find out why she is lame (could be absolutely nothing of any major significance) you are looking for a way out.

Shame.
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At the end of the day, I'm looking to do what's best for my horse, which means we'll probably just have to accept the loss.

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This is such a puzzling post. At no point have you made any reference to the suggestions made to get a full work up done.

I wonder if you have simply bought a horse that's not for you, and rather than find out why she is lame (could be absolutely nothing of any major significance) you are looking for a way out.

Shame.
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That I think it TOTALLY out of line.

Now, I am choking myself with anger trying to be civil to you but you've never ATTEMPTED to get the full story, Amy May, and I wonder why you're determined to make it look as if I'm somehow in the wrong?


We bought a SCHOOLMISTRESS with a sweet nature who also happened to be much more highly strung than the way she was described to us.

So, we worked through that patiently, as we felt it would be unfair not to give her a chance when she was obviously such a nice girl.

Now, I've become emotionally attached to a horse who is, in my eyes, perfect but as soon as she was put into daily work she came down lame. We treated it as an acute lameness, but as it still remains, my equine vet, who is head of his practise, thinks it is a chronic lameness which accounts for the muscle wastage. Now we have to work an obviously lame horse in order to nerve block, which is just awful.

I posted here looking for moral support as there is no way I could face returning my horse to the dealer and washing my hand of her, but there are some members who seem determined to offer little more than insinuations that I'm a liar.

I don't think I can be on this board anymore.

But thank you to those majority of you all who HAVE been kind & supportive & understanding.
I really appreciate it.
 
How gutting for you. I really don't know what to suggest except that you should question the fact that your insurance co is counting it as a pre-existing condition if she passed a 5-stage vetting before purchase and then see if they'll cough up for a specialist examination.
 
You posted a while back about your horse bucking and rearing etc. and everybody advised you to get her saddle/back investigated because the bad behaviour was very likely to be pain related.

She has since gone lame, so the bad behaviour was probably a prelude to the pain manifesting itself physically.

Despite this, you seem reluctant to have a proper investigation done by a qualified equine vet, preferably with nerve blocks, XRays etc.

Until you get this investigated properly you will never find out what is causing your horse's behaviour and to blame it on the dealer who sold you the horse seems very naive.

People are not intentionally having a go at you, but your post has been very confusing and you don't seem interested in taking anybody's advice.
 
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Now, I am choking myself with anger trying to be civil to you but you've never ATTEMPTED to get the full story, Amy May,

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I think I've asked questions in most of my posts - so I'm not sure how that is not interpretted as not trying to get the full story. And absolutely no one (least of all me) is insuating that you are some sort of Liar.

But as I say, I'm just puzzled as to why you appear not to want a full lameness work up done. Obviously you have your reasons and I respect that.

One more thing occurred to me when I was out to lunch - which may be food for thought, and help you to some sort of resolution.

You mentioned about muscle wastage - I'm assuming that this wasn't evident at the vetting???? Which could mean many things, least of all that this is a sudden onset of a problem since you've had the mare.

If it's any consolation regarding the nature of the animal you've bought - I spent the first 5 months wondering if my new horse was for me (he was much more 'animal' than I thought I had bought). But we're now a happy pair together - but I absolutely thought about selling him on more than one ocassion - as one poster on here will vouch for.

Either way - good luck with your mare. I hope you get to the bottom of your problems.
 
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I think you're all being very harsh - OP wanted some good vibes and encouragement - not criticism!!

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Where, Fruddy, has the OP been criticised? All people have done is tell her to get a full lameness work up done, and not just assume that the problem is one that the seller knew about ..............

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Yeah, well say what you like, AmyMay, but I remember very clearly you ripping me to shreds about eight months ago when I posted about my marriage falling apart and maybe faced with selling my horse....... I was basically told in no uncertain terms by YOU that cars cost pennies, I would manage well on benefits as a single parent and that you were sick of reading "these type of posts!" Just plain nasty - but there again, most of your posts are, from what I can see.

Totally up yourself without an empathetic bone in your body.
 
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I think you're all being very harsh - OP wanted some good vibes and encouragement - not criticism!!

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Where, Fruddy, has the OP been criticised? All people have done is tell her to get a full lameness work up done, and not just assume that the problem is one that the seller knew about ..............

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Yeah, well say what you like, AmyMay, but I remember very clearly you ripping me to shreds about eight months ago when I posted about my marriage falling apart and maybe faced with selling my horse....... I was basically told in no uncertain terms by YOU that cars cost pennies, I would manage well on benefits as a single parent and that you were sick of reading "these type of posts!" Just plain nasty - but there again, most of your posts are, from what I can see.

Totally up yourself without an empathetic bone in your body.

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And this has what to do with this thread?????

Oh, and this is actually said to you in January:

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Most DIY yards do assisted livery - so they will bring the horse in or put it out for you if necessary.

She has a sharer who presumably contributes financially and physically.

A car costs pennies.

As a woman with kids separated from her husband she may well ultimately be better off financially than she was before - with all the state handouts she could get, plus the maintenance her husband will have to pay for her, and quite probably the mortgage too.

Just a bit sick of reading these types of posts to be honest.

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Good practical, honest and factual advice, and not ripping anyone to shreds.

Anyway let's not to hijack this post.
 
Getting back to the original post, about muscle wastage, this is so often caused by a badly fitting saddle and/or incorrect work.

If it is quite obvious, it could be the result of a heavy worm burden - have you had a worm count done? I know someone who had an outwardly very happy and healthy looking mare apart from muscle wastage. she was quite young and not been ridden for long, so this seemed a bit suspicious (it would have taken years of badly fitting tack and/or incorrect schooling) and juding by her movements etc, I would have said she tried very hard to work correctly although she was nappy and bucked. Saddle, back etc checked and no problems other than muscle wastage causing badly fitting wintec to fit even worse - that was sorted though and still no progress on muscle after working correctly and tack fitted. And she always seemed slightly off - was a bit lethargic and did shuffle about, everyone though possible lame but no-one could really pin point anything.

Owner had vet out to check and they found heavy worm burden (even though she was wormed properly in current home) blood tests showed something else (cant remember what it is called now but symptoms are very severe muscle wastage) and once the vet diagnosed and treated it is like a new horse. No behavioural problems and a joy. Only thing is, she has to be kept out 24/7 all year round but she loves that anyway and saves her owner having to muck her out!

So it may be worthwhile getting worm count (about £10) and asking vet to come and do bloods etc. Speak to your insurance company about what procedures they will cover. I agree with the others that there is no way to say that this was pre-existing. Out of interest, who are you insured with?
 
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