Heavy on the forehand?

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char.lotte

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Hi all,
Apologies for the very long post, I feel you guys need the whole story to help!
I am currently reschooling a very green gypsy cob who has only hacked (predominantly walk trot, only ever cantered in company & very rarely) since he was broken. He is now 8. When I first started he was completely unbalanced, his transition to canter was shambolic due to sheer confusion of what I wanted and once he figured it out he couldn't canter without broncing for weeks (never ever nasty with it)! This was all done out hacking, I slowly introduced the school with just a few minutes wander round building up to 20 min of walk and a little trot. Once his canter was reasonably balanced out hacking we had a few lessons that ramped up to his first canter in the school, and some to combat his previously awful napping. With lots of praise and practice (and time!), tonight he was holding canters for an entire lap of the school with no breaking of it past the gate. This is an enormous deal for us!!
Currently (hopefully not for much longer), more lessons are not an option because old instructor is now based at a yard & doing well for herself so "No longer needs our business" and he is based in a rural area. If anyone knows anyone good (and reasonably priced) that will come to us in Oxfordshire area please do let me know!
The issue is, he is incredibly heavy on the forehand in canter. He slopes down as much as I allow and pulls himself along. In trot he used to be far worse than he is now however he will still try. In canter he careens round the corners like an unbalanced motorbike that feels awful to be sat on! How can I improve his corners, turns and get him off the forehand? I have been doing the trt method, loads of hacking, freeschooling/lunging, polework, stretches and trying my best to get him to bend!
Thank you, every piece of advice massively appreciated!
 
Try walk to canter- it really helps a lot with cobs who do tend to weight their shoulders and forehand. Have a search on YouTube for helpful videos and look for articles explaining how to do this. Also try teaching it from the ground from voice commands first, with lots of praise when he tries - just work up to asking for a few strides of canter which will help him keep his balance, then back to trot/ walk. You will need to have a good, active walk before you ask for canter.
Walk to canter really helps the horse to use his hind legs more and encourages weight to be carried more behind than in front and on the forehand. Take your time and break it down into simple steps. Good luck!
 
At only 8, if he's a heavy type, only hacked about , he sounds pretty good to be honest...could be a lot worse, most cobs I see being hacked out nowadays are much worse than this as people seem to have no idea about self carriage ,what it is, or how to help cobs particularly..
He's still very young, not fully mature at 8, perfect time to start slowly establishing a powerful, pushing from the back, walk...hillwork, not holding him in at the front, allowing his body to push through from the back end freely, long reining for miles for 3/4 months before adding a rider...these are the basic, slow, best for the horse ways to improve self carriage...we can't just focus on the canter...the foundation is the walk, and everything evolves once the walk is a good,old fashioned, working ,powerful,free striding walk, allowing freedom of the shoulders ,neck,chest,head, ribcage, and last to develop..the strength pushing it all forward from the back end. Only then should we start to see if he can start to "collect". Less is more, slow work at this age will be the best guarantee of strong, healthy structure and paces going forward into longevity. For a cob, he's literally just "riding away", and it's much better for them ( and all horses, truth be told), to have had a long slow , low key introduction to work...a few months of more gradual building up structurally & mentally into helping his movement and structure be as strong as it can be and hopefully you'll avoid most / all of the entirely preventable structural problems so many horses who should be in their prime are prone to, when yours will just be coming into his strong, healthy prime years between 9 and 20 ish or more. All the best, there's no race.
 
Leah3horses said:
At only 8, if he's a heavy type, only hacked about , he sounds pretty good to be honest...could be a lot worse, most cobs I see being hacked out nowadays are much worse than this as people seem to have no idea about self carriage ,what it is, or how to help cobs particularly..
He's still very young, not fully mature at 8, perfect time to start slowly establishing a powerful, pushing from the back, walk...hillwork, not holding him in at the front, allowing his body to push through from the back end freely, long reining for miles for 3/4 months before adding a rider...these are the basic, slow, best for the horse ways to improve self carriage...we can't just focus on the canter...the foundation is the walk, and everything evolves once the walk is a good,old fashioned, working ,powerful,free striding walk, allowing freedom of the shoulders ,neck,chest,head, ribcage, and last to develop..the strength pushing it all forward from the back end. Only then should we start to see if he can start to "collect". Less is more, slow work at this age will be the best guarantee of strong, healthy structure and paces going forward into longevity. For a cob, he's literally just "riding away", and it's much better for them ( and all horses, truth be told), to have had a long slow , low key introduction to work...a few months of more gradual building up structurally & mentally into helping his movement and structure be as strong as it can be and hopefully you'll avoid most / all of the entirely preventable structural problems so many horses who should be in their prime are prone to, when yours will just be coming into his strong, healthy prime years between 9 and 20 ish or more. All the best, there's no race.
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Amazing, thank you so much for the detailed response! I have actually just dug out the old roller to long rein as doing the other two so thought he should have a go - doubt he's ever been long reined. To confirm, I have been riding him for 7 months and the first 2-3 were spent walk trot only, despite this he still isn't powering behind enough for my liking so if you have any tips on how to actually get him moving into the powerful, free strided walk I am all ears! The idea on how to get this is where we are struggling. We are in the chilterns so most routes are extremely hilly and I have made sure to really utilise them in active walks both up and down. I have been doing lots of long rein/ long and low work where he lifts through his back very well. I am however very conscious that he has never had a contact and is only used to having his head on the floor so I should be introducing the contact little and often as I don't want it to be a sudden influx of hard work. Other things we have been working on is inhand polework, light lunging, freejumping, trt method, backing up (we recently built to me on backing up over poles!) If you have any other ideas on HOW to build it up to create the solid foundation I want for him please do let me know! Thank you!
 
SEL said:
For my littlest cob it was working in slower paces in the school (a 20 x 40 felt tiny on a thelwell sized motorbike). Ritter has some exercises which I really like in walk & trot encouraging them to really understand about taking weight behind.
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Awesome thank you so much! The little motorbikes do feel awful at speed in small spaces!! Thanks for the Ritter recommendation, will definitely try some, really like the idea of helping him understand how to take his weight behind and move forwards not along if that makes sense, as I think that is his whole problem at the minute (I don't think he actually knows how to do it)!
 
char.lotte said:
Hi all,
Apologies for the very long post, I feel you guys need the whole story to help!
I am currently reschooling a very green gypsy cob who has only hacked (predominantly walk trot, only ever cantered in company & very rarely) since he was broken. He is now 8. When I first started he was completely unbalanced, his transition to canter was shambolic due to sheer confusion of what I wanted and once he figured it out he couldn't canter without broncing for weeks (never ever nasty with it)! This was all done out hacking, I slowly introduced the school with just a few minutes wander round building up to 20 min of walk and a little trot. Once his canter was reasonably balanced out hacking we had a few lessons that ramped up to his first canter in the school, and some to combat his previously awful napping. With lots of praise and practice (and time!), tonight he was holding canters for an entire lap of the school with no breaking of it past the gate. This is an enormous deal for us!!
Currently (hopefully not for much longer), more lessons are not an option because old instructor is now based at a yard & doing well for herself so "No longer needs our business" and he is based in a rural area. If anyone knows anyone good (and reasonably priced) that will come to us in Oxfordshire area please do let me know!
The issue is, he is incredibly heavy on the forehand in canter. He slopes down as much as I allow and pulls himself along. In trot he used to be far worse than he is now however he will still try. In canter he careens round the corners like an unbalanced motorbike that feels awful to be sat on! How can I improve his corners, turns and get him off the forehand? I have been doing the trt method, loads of hacking, freeschooling/lunging, polework, stretches and trying my best to get him to bend!
Thank you, every piece of advice massively appreciated!
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Loads of transition helped my Welsh D with his canter + canter pole work.
 
Lateral work can help get them strong behind to get the push rather than the pull from infront, I always teach the Lateral stuff in walk first then progress to trot and canter as they learn then mix it up so you do lots of transitions.

I will do leg yield, shoulder in haunches in and mix it up so you do a few strides in one gait then change to another but it takes time to get them to be able to do it but it really helped my Arab's sit back and use the back end.
 
PinkvSantaboots said:
Lateral work can help get them strong behind to get the push rather than the pull from infront, I always teach the Lateral stuff in walk first then progress to trot and canter as they learn then mix it up so you do lots of transitions.

I will do leg yield, shoulder in haunches in and mix it up so you do a few strides in one gait then change to another but it takes time to get them to be able to do it but it really helped my Arab's sit back and use the back end.
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Great ideas, thanks, I have done some leg yield under saddle but that was just persistent (gentle) asking until he guessed correctly! Not really sure how to progress to teaching it under saddle, if you have any idea in that respect? I am currently at the stage in groundwork where he will yield his hind and fore away from me which I want to progress to holding it while walking and eventually trotting in hand.
 
char.lotte said:
Great ideas, thanks, I have done some leg yield under saddle but that was just persistent (gentle) asking until he guessed correctly! Not really sure how to progress to teaching it under saddle, if you have any idea in that respect? I am currently at the stage in groundwork where he will yield his hind and fore away from me which I want to progress to holding it while walking and eventually trotting in hand.
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Leg yield is the first lateral movement you teach really best way is to turn at the centre line use your inside leg slightly further back and push the hind end over into your outside rein, don't ask for too much bend with your inside rein and just expect a few steps over then go forward a few steps then ask again towards the track don't drop your outside rein.
 
Lateral work in-hand made the biggest difference to my cob - starting gently with short sessions and building up gradually over time alongside hacking, hill work, pole work and short schooling sessions (mine thrives on very varied work). The in-hand sessions helped my cob to use his core muscles improving flexibility, strength and self-carriage without the weight of a rider. In my experience it is also a workout for the handler if done properly!
If you are in the Chilterns then check out Turville Valley Stud as they teach this correctly with empathy for the horse.
 
It will sound counter intuitive but set up some bounce jumps using cavaletti. You will only want two as in two fences (1 bounce stride) to begin with. It’s going to be a mess to begin with but it’s so helpful to them developing the right athleticism and balance. You then ask them to canter away. I do a fair amount with sport horses who can’t canter - it helps them think forward and land forwards.
I also lunge - I am not a big fan of lunging but find it helps them develop their own balance for canter and normally just have them in a rope halter. Again it’s horrendous to begin with and I might just get 2 strides of canter but that’s your starting point to keep building. I think I spent weeks with one either cantering out hacking or on lunge for 5 mins as just couldn’t get round the arena with a rider on.
 
shoulder in would be brilliant for helping. with cobs like that we would do a lot of shoulder in and gradually build up to shoulder-in in canter, which is the handiest way to get them lighter again if they get heavy in canter
 
I don’t know if this is also helpful but about once a week, when she is warmed up but not tired, I lunge my cob for no more than 5 mins and include a couple of rounds of canter with a couple of transitions. Not only does this (I think) to help them understand their balance, enable you to teach a voice canter command, it also from the ground helps me assess how the canter is progressing. Slowly she is starting to strike off on the right leg and look more balanced.
 
LEC said:
It will sound counter intuitive but set up some bounce jumps using cavaletti. You will only want two as in two fences (1 bounce stride) to begin with. It’s going to be a mess to begin with but it’s so helpful to them developing the right athleticism and balance. You then ask them to canter away. I do a fair amount with sport horses who can’t canter - it helps them think forward and land forwards.
I also lunge - I am not a big fan of lunging but find it helps them develop their own balance for canter and normally just have them in a rope halter. Again it’s horrendous to begin with and I might just get 2 strides of canter but that’s your starting point to keep building. I think I spent weeks with one either cantering out hacking or on lunge for 5 mins as just couldn’t get round the arena with a rider on.
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Bounces are a great idea! I have only just started introducing jumping in the school with freejumping and once under saddle because he was landing in a very nice canter! Have already started the terrible lunging process! He used to be lunged regularly in just walk trot so to start with it was a shitshow bless him! He is definitely getting better though which is amazing to see!
 
canteron said:
I don’t know if this is also helpful but about once a week, when she is warmed up but not tired, I lunge my cob for no more than 5 mins and include a couple of rounds of canter with a couple of transitions. Not only does this (I think) to help them understand their balance, enable you to teach a voice canter command, it also from the ground helps me assess how the canter is progressing. Slowly she is starting to strike off on the right leg and look more balanced.
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Amazing idea thanks, will try tomorrow if weather permits!
 
Lots of great ideas. I would concentrate on improving the walk with just enough trot and canter to prevent boredom. Loads of transitions , include rein back. When you canter, just a few quality strides then back to trot. Lateral in walk and as above try walk to canter. Praise any attempt even if it’s not what you wanted.
 
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