Helgstrand documentary

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05jackd

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Has anyone watched it?
Does anyone know where we can watch it in the UK?

The reviews seem pretty damning but I would like to see the footage for myself.
 
Yep. Saw it when it was released. Made me sick to the point that I stopped training and watching dressage at all.

He placed Jovian with Kittel ( Mr Blue tongue himself, as some of us like to call him here at home in Sweden) while he was banned, friends as they are. Apparently he's back competing now like nothing changed. Money rules I guess...
 
I have brain that struggles to assess and process physical movements but even I spotted each front leg doing something different.

Has he invented a new movement?
 
Contact details for Jason Brautigam, head of BD: https://www.britishdressage.co.uk/people/

E-mail him the link expressing your horror at the video, highlight how you think it contravenes BD welfare policy (also on the website) and ask for a response.

Email/write to H&Hs letters section.

We have limited influence abroad but we can make sure 'that' is not acceptable in tests here, and the conversation about training methods and equine welfare continue here.
 
Also write to the FEI as it was an FEI competition I expect.

....although I tried that 20 years ago over the Amy Tryon/Le Samuri incident and nothing much happened from the FEI. That is what makes me feel that no matter what we do this time round with dressage abuse nothing much will improve - although 20 years on with so much more social media/camera phones there may be a glimmer of hope if we continue the pressure.
 
reynold said:
Also write to the FEI as it was an FEI competition I expect.

....although I tried that 20 years ago over the Amy Tryon/Le Samuri incident and nothing much happened from the FEI. That is what makes me feel that no matter what we do this time round with dressage abuse nothing much will improve - although 20 years on with so much more social media/camera phones there may be a glimmer of hope if we continue the pressure.
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Amy was found guilty of causing unintentional abuse, suspended and fined by the FEI. She paid a much heavier price after trial by social media caused such a devastating impact on her mental health and she ultimately lost her life.
It was a tragic incident all round, but not very comparable to the systematic abuse of the Helgstrand stables IMO.
 
AShetlandBitMeOnce said:
I despair for all that is dressage, everyone in that arena should be ashamed of themselves
Why are the two halves of that horses body doing entirely different things during that 'passage'?
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That's the weirdest thing I've ever seen a horse do I think and you've got to wonder what exactly went into that 'training', aside from all the stuff we already know about.

ETA does anyone know what the score was for that movement (final centre line maybe?)
 
I dont believe anyone, even Helgstrand, is trying to train passage as the horrible, uneven, four beat gait we see on the video. Jovian is a huge horse with huge movement, and he has never been trained to truly collect, or been allowed the time to develop the strength and balance required for the true collection. So what you see is a fake, forced "collection" under the pressure and stress of competition, and that produces the unnatural, unlevel movement.
 
Uneven is putting it mildly. He is offering entirely different movements with each side of the body and you don't get that from any kind of progressive gymnastisising and strengthening. So what are they doing to get that? Whacking with a bamboo à la Morten Thomsen? Bungees? Weights? The mind boggles, frankly.
 
Burnttoast said:
Uneven is putting it mildly. He is offering entirely different movements with each side of the body and you don't get that from any kind of progressive gymnastisising and strengthening. So what are they doing to get that? Whacking with a bamboo à la Morten Thomsen? Bungees? Weights? The mind boggles, frankly.
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Well, if you consider what his employees in the documentary used it's really, really tight draw reins, spurs and whips 🫠 (Which they used blankets and shoe polish to hide the marks after when customers and owners came to visit). I doubt that Jovian has been trained in a different manner...
 
Elno said:
Well, if you consider what his employees in the documentary used it's really, really tight draw reins, spurs and whips 🫠 (Which they used blankets and shoe polish to hide the marks after when customers and owners came to visit). I doubt that Jovian has been trained in a different manner...
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To be honest I was assuming that much as a baseline
 
Can you imagine how difficult it would be for us to move one leg in a totally different way to the other, then switch to another way of walking? That's not easy for that horse to move in three different ways at once, so not surprising it looks tense. He looks totally confused about the whole thing and just offering whatever he's done at some point and hoping he doesn't get a beating for it.
 
I saw a close up today too and Jovian has significantly capped hocks in both backs.. I hate to think what that is indictive of.
I was thinking about this in the car today, any level of cruelty like this to any other animal and by someone not made of money would have resulted in a lifetime ban from keeping any animal. That is the only consequence that would have been enough in my mind
 
AShetlandBitMeOnce said:
I saw a close up today too and Jovian has significantly capped hocks in both backs.. I hate to think what that is indictive of.
I was thinking about this in the car today, any level of cruelty like this to any other animal and by someone not made of money would have resulted in a lifetime ban from keeping any animal. That is the only consequence that would have been enough in my mind
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I saw that too - they're very visible as he's going away from the camera on that final centre line. Impossible to tell if actually lame or 'just' bridle lame but how can a horse with such impure gaits be scoring over 70?
 
Burnttoast said:
I saw that too - they're very visible as he's going away from the camera on that final centre line. Impossible to tell if actually lame or 'just' bridle lame but how can a horse with such impure gaits be scoring over 70?
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Someone theorised that it is inflammation in the bursa from the repetitive, unnatural and significant strain put through the joint daily being asked to do the movements he does without sufficient strength to do so through improper training, as opposed to what you might think in that he's bashed them somehow.
 
Burnttoast said:
I saw that too - they're very visible as he's going away from the camera on that final centre line. Impossible to tell if actually lame or 'just' bridle lame but how can a horse with such impure gaits be scoring over 70?
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Exactly surely as @daffy44 said it's clearly incorrect and incorrectly trained so should be scoring very low/penalised heavily.
 
AShetlandBitMeOnce said:
Someone theorised that it is inflammation in the bursa from the repetitive, unnatural and significant strain put through the joint daily being asked to do the movements he does without sufficient strength to do so through improper training, as opposed to what you might think in that he's bashed them somehow.
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That sounds plausible given he probably lives in a padded cell rubber-lined box
 
I'm not great on dressage.
Does anyone know what the name of this movement is please??

I am currently calling it extended,collected trotting piaffe with one time changes on one side only...
But that's a bit of a mouthful.


Seriously, horriffic to think of how this was 'trained'.
Poor, poor horse.
 
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