Helmet cams banned for all BE events

MadisonBelle said:
I've not got one but after what happened to poor Michael Schumacher I wouldn't wear one now anyway :( Not on a helmet anyway.....
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I don't think we know that the hat cam was responsible for the severity of his injuries. A reporter did tweet a comment but has since 'taken it back' and apologised for his 'inaccurate' comments.
 
VRIN said:
I don't think we know that the hat cam was responsible for the severity of his injuries. A reporter did tweet a comment but has since 'taken it back' and apologised for his 'inaccurate' comments.
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The damage to his helmet and the brain injury was consistent with the position of the head cam.
I have been waiting for BE to do this and I was surprised they took so long about it as right from the start the doctors implicated the head cam in Michaels injuries.
 
I am amazed it has taken this long for it to happen. It will be interesting to see what the research outcomes are when they become available. I am not sure mounting one on your chest would be a much better idea either. I wonder if there will be any research conducted in to the risks associated with chest mounted cameras.
 
popsdosh said:
The damage to his helmet and the brain injury was consistent with the position of the head cam.
I have been waiting for BE to do this and I was surprised they took so long about it as right from the start the doctors implicated the head cam in Michaels injuries.
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It was suggested as the hat cam was undamaged whilst the helmet was shattered that it may be the cause and this was subject to further investigation but I still don't think the investigation has (as yet) concluded that the hat cam was responsible.
 
It could be that a hat cam acts as a "sticking point" in a forward fall at speed - if a skier falls going down a slope with no hat cam the person continues at speed slowing naturally as the helmet is round. If there is a hat cam on the helmet the same fall could be potentially slowed suddenly with the hat cam possibly getting stuck in the snow or that it increases the concussion on the head while rotating?

I don't see how hat cams in riding could be compared to wearing while skiing though - surely the nature of the falls are different?
 
I agree with the move to ban them.
I think the issue with them is that they create a localised impact point which can cause more damage when it's pinpointed...
 
Apparently his was screwed to his helmet - not sure if that is true ? Surely that would damage the integrity of the helmet a considerable amount.

I wear a headcam, it sticks to my hat with velcro so just pings off if knocked. I can understand why they've put the ban in whilst awaiting more information but it would be a shame if they were banned for good. If nothing else it's nice for J's owner to watch and see her horse go cross country from the riders view.
 
Carefreegirl said:
I wear a headcam, it sticks to my hat with velcro so just pings off if knocked. I can understand why they've put the ban in whilst awaiting more information but it would be a shame if they were banned for good.
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This. Velcro is all that's needed to stick a Go Pro on then it would come straight off in an accident. Yes screwing it on or having it mounted etc. would be more likely to cause a problem but I really see no issue with it being on with velcro. If I'm honest I think it really should be left up to the rider as to if they wish to wear one or not. Much like you don't have to wear an air vest, I choose not to because I think it can actually cause more damage as well (I hate the thought of not being able to roll out of the way easily for example). The choice ultimately should be with the rider on this one IMO. Go Pro's are used massively in lots of sports, this is just a knee-jerk reaction to one incident.
 
Didn't know that theory about Michael Schumacher's awful head injury. Just wondering about cyclists, too, as so many now wear head cams in case of problems on the road.
 
MagicMelon said:
This. Velcro is all that's needed to stick a Go Pro on then it would come straight off in an accident. Yes screwing it on or having it mounted etc. would be more likely to cause a problem but I really see no issue with it being on with velcro. If I'm honest I think it really should be left up to the rider as to if they wish to wear one or not. Much like you don't have to wear an air vest, I choose not to because I think it can actually cause more damage as well (I hate the thought of not being able to roll out of the way easily for example). The choice ultimately should be with the rider on this one IMO. Go Pro's are used massively in lots of sports, this is just a knee-jerk reaction to one incident.
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Mine sticks to the side of my hat, I've seen the Go pro ones mounted on top of hats but the thought of crashing onto one of those terrified me, not the fear of hurting yourself but the cost of buying them and potentially breaking it :eek3: Could a Go Pro be secure with velcro ? I haven't seen one close up so wouldn't know.
 
Re: using Velcro. The glue in stickers caused fatal failures in motorcycle helmets back when polycarbonate ones first came into existence. I'd be very wary of using anything that wasn't specifically mentioned by the helmet manufacturers as being safe.
 
jemima*askin said:
Re: using Velcro. The glue in stickers caused fatal failures in motorcycle helmets back when polycarbonate ones first came into existence. I'd be very wary of using anything that wasn't specifically mentioned by the helmet manufacturers as being safe.
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Most people event in skull caps with hat silks so you could actually in theory stitch a velcro patch onto the front of the silk so you wouldnt even need glue. You'd need a sturdy enough silk though to take the weight of the Go Pro but they're extremely small and light. We have several Go Pro's as part of our aerial footage company but I did contact BE a couple of months ago to find out their legalities on us possibly attending events to hire out the Go Pro's to individual riders if they wanted to film their round, but we never got a reply - I guess because they were planning to ban them! Quite a lot of people hack out with Go Pro's nowadays so its not like its a weird thing to do using them for XC. If secured by velcro to the front, I really don't see how they could increase your chance of being hurt. If you go down this route then you could say things like a knee roll on certain saddles could dig into your leg more if the horse fell on you or if you choose not to wear gloves then your hands could get more scratched etc. if you fell - there's so many "what ifs" with eventing, I think in this case its just because its something new that a lot of people freak out over it. A lot of horsey folk are very traditional and stuck in their old ways ;) Anything new on the market and they tend to hate it!
 
MagicMelon said:
Most people event in skull caps with hat silks so you could actually in theory stitch a velcro patch onto the front of the silk so you wouldnt even need glue. You'd need a sturdy enough silk though to take the weight of the Go Pro but they're extremely small and light. We have several Go Pro's as part of our aerial footage company but I did contact BE a couple of months ago to find out their legalities on us possibly attending events to hire out the Go Pro's to individual riders if they wanted to film their round, but we never got a reply - I guess because they were planning to ban them! Quite a lot of people hack out with Go Pro's nowadays so its not like its a weird thing to do using them for XC. If secured by velcro to the front, I really don't see how they could increase your chance of being hurt. If you go down this route then you could say things like a knee roll on certain saddles could dig into your leg more if the horse fell on you or if you choose not to wear gloves then your hands could get more scratched etc. if you fell - there's so many "what ifs" with eventing, I think in this case its just because its something new that a lot of people freak out over it. A lot of horsey folk are very traditional and stuck in their old ways ;) Anything new on the market and they tend to hate it!
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When I landed face first on tarmac, had I been wearing a camera, even if it didn't damage the helmet by concentrating the area of impact, the camera shattering could have lost me an eye or worse.
Yes, it is something new, but rather than accuse people of freaking out over it, it might be down to prudence that the new fad is properly tested before more people sustain avoidable injuries.
 
jemima*askin said:
Re: using Velcro. The glue in stickers caused fatal failures in motorcycle helmets back when polycarbonate ones first came into existence. I'd be very wary of using anything that wasn't specifically mentioned by the helmet manufacturers as being safe.
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The velcro is attached to an elasticated velcro hat band, so no glue goes on the actual hat.
 
We use Go pro skiing but it is only held to ski helmet by stick on mount, it would come off at the first knock and is enclosed by strong plastic so would not shatter. We have worn ski helmets for almost ten years but many still don't wear one, ski helmets are more like cycling helmets than riding hats.
 
meesha said:
We use Go pro skiing but it is only held to ski helmet by stick on mount, it would come off at the first knock and is enclosed by strong plastic so would not shatter. We have worn ski helmets for almost ten years but many still don't wear one, ski helmets are more like cycling helmets than riding hats.
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You've got to be kidding. You're very optimistic aren't you ?
 
On a tangent, was nobody else watching the Apprentice the other day thinking that the jumper-cam could be very useful for eq sports with a few modifications? I reckon they missed a trick there - market for sports on a baselayer type material instead. That camera was so small, I can't see it being particularly dangerous in a fall.
 
I can't cope with the Apprentice but have mentioned to a couple of people that if they're determined to wear a camera atm the rules state no hat cameras and there are plenty of other sensible places to mount one . . .
 
I use a GoPro held on with elastic strap when hacking and it tends to ping off at the first sign of trouble - it went flying shortly before I did the other day when horse decided to hold an impromptu rodeo :p. The only problem with that is I suspect that it'd come off on a heavy landing when jumping.

I've also used one with a chest mount when snowboarding (don't wear a helmet for that!) and it was a horrible idea, as the cracked breastbone attested to! I wouldn't wear one ever again, for anything.

BE have banned this as a largely knee-jerk reaction - the small 'bullet' cams at the side of the hat are better than the GoPros and I suspect that the outcome of the investigation with support this.
 
Vodkagirly said:
Any reason you can't attach camera to horses headpiece instead? Seen a few shot like this.
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I guess cus they can fall on their heads too?

Re the Apprentice jumper - when I told my OH about the ban last night he said 'What you need's an 'on air' jumper!'

Have to say I'm not surprised they're looking at the issue - though I hope they find a sensible solution of allowing certain shapes of camera and types of attachments. There are lots of different shapes cameras have in the past been made which could be more suitable. I wore one while hunting a few years back to get TV footage and it was what was typically used (at the time) for secret filming - a tube shape about the length of a cigarette and twice the circumference, with the lens at one end. Would be very easy and safe to attach to any number of places!

ETA just to point out I absolutely wasn't secret filming with the hunt, it was all arranged and above board. They just didn't have head cams in those days so this is what we had to use, with a clever attachment a la gaffer tape...!
 
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JFTD said:
On a tangent, was nobody else watching the Apprentice the other day thinking that the jumper-cam could be very useful for eq sports with a few modifications? I reckon they missed a trick there - market for sports on a baselayer type material instead. That camera was so small, I can't see it being particularly dangerous in a fall.
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Absolutely, I was almost shouting at the telly! It's JD sports for F's sake!
 
I asked if anyone had fallen on their heads with a camera mounted and what the outcome was when I was first looking for a hat cam. I got no responses at all. I eventually went with one of the bullet style cameras, mounted at the side on a hat band and attached with velcro as I decided this would be the 'safest' option. I have fallen off wearing it and there has been no damage to either hat, head or camera so far. I will be interested to see what the research shows.
 
I think ONE possible accident is not enough to ban them. There are hundreds of people who film rides all the time, and in a lot of cases the footage is very useful to the trainer, rider and police in cases of abuse. While i commend them for taking a potential threat to safety very seriously, i think they are jumping the gun a little and should wait for the conclusion of the research.
 
equi said:
I think ONE possible accident is not enough to ban them. There are hundreds of people who film rides all the time, and in a lot of cases the footage is very useful to the trainer, rider and police in cases of abuse. While i commend them for taking a potential threat to safety very seriously, i think they are jumping the gun a little and should wait for the conclusion of the research.
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No because this is research that BE themselves have commisioned and that in itself would constitute negligence on their part if they did not stop their use in the mean time. I really question the use of headcam pictures as a training aid!
It is not just one accident that has highlighted this issue the doctors in the Alps have come up with this theory having seen many similar injuries in skiers using head cams.
 
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