help! 4 yr old broken but broncoed everyone off....what now???

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tinker88

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my friends 4 yr old, 16.3hh appolossa gelding is a very nervous baby, hes strange and will let us fully clip him no probs, do basically anything you would expect him to be scared of to him, but do "normal " things and hes scared.

teh horse was sent to an agrentine guy to be broken. this guy basically runs the horses into the ground, then hobbles them and rides them away.

when teh horse came back we had to hobble him to mount, then we could ride him (afetr lunging)

but horsey now bronc's everyone off (3 ppl so far - and we have now found out 3 of his grooms too)

the owner is considering having horsey put to sleep if we cant do anything else. hes becoming danegrous.

but...... b4 xmas i had the horse jumping with me and his back...... he seemed ok, green but OK.

sureley we can bring him round this horse has serious potential. it jumps anything and we have loosed it over 6ft!!! several times, he jumps out of teh field (so hes fully stabled)

we feed him just haylage so hes not getting much food.

if you lunge him to tire himout he seems to run on adrenaline and is worse than ever. we even tried "natural horsemanship" but he dosnt like people, weve tried pairing him up with a horse so he can have a friend, he wont even interact with other horses??????

what can we try, he will lunge great tacked up, had his back n teeth done, all ok. its just one day he will let you ride, the next day he wont even let us mount????

if we could turn him out we would n try again in summer but he jumps out.

any suggestions please????
 
I think it sounds like being cooped up in a stable is not helping with the pent up energy which is coming out as bucks. If you have some hobbles then why don't you tether him out in the middle of a field so he can graze, get some exercise, and chill out, but not jump out.

Secondly it's very old school but why don't you make a dummy rider (old clothes stuffed with straw willl do) and tie that to the saddle, under the girth, and the arms to the stirrup leathers, then when he bucks, and the dummy doesnt come off he will learn that that isn't an evasion he can use, you will however have to back this up with a real person who can sit a few bucks!!!! good luck finding that person, I'm definitly not volunteering for the job
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ditto the dummy!! where abouts are you? I know a fab chap who will sit and stay on anything, not nasty or anything- just a good old fashioned ''rough rider'' ! if that would be of any help ?!
 
I'd send him to a different professional who comes highly recommended and who specializes in breaking in and remedial horses.

Your guy's approach sounds a bit unconventional and does not seem to have done the job for this horse. Give the horse a chance to start again with a very good trainer. If this doesn't turn him around, then I'd say PTS.
 
This horse sounds scared to bits of any rider, and has already "learned" how to decant people, so you have a huge problem now.
We had similar trouble with one of our four year olds and really all you can do is first gain his confidence, attempt to find out what triggers the bucking (ours was a girth anything but really loose). and then attempt to stay on him for short periods of time.
The trick sometimes with horses who are as difficult as this is sedalin gradually decreasing the dose, but anyone who sends their horse to someone as ruthless a breaker as you describe quite honestly doesn't sound to have the skill or knowledge to train it to me.
I feel very sorry for this horse, he's had a raw deal already.
 
what about starting again with your poor horse. Can you turn him away for a month to totally chill preferably with other horses to stop him jumping out, you may need to ask around people who have youngster for example who will have good proper turn away fields. Whe he comes back in don't let all and sundry handle him, if he is worried then more people will worry him more. Take it slowly, don't expect to be on jumping 4ft courses by the end of the year, listen to what your horse is telling you, if you have pushed a step too far then take a check and go back to what he found comfortable. Loads and loads of handling on the ground to get him to 'love' you (no i'm not new age just know how to read a horse!!). When yo finally get to riding again, only walk with him till he is tottaly happy that nothing nasty will happen, that make take days, weeks or months. Again listen to your horse get to know him. Keep the progress going but not with different people just you and perhaps one other that will compliment you. I would go on but have to stop at some point. The above is my tried and tested method many many times over. Hope it helps! Where are yo based?
 
The poor horse agree totally with flame

Broken in (literally ) like that no wonder he thinks all riders are monsters!

Be very careful with a dummy rider they can be very dangerous horses can blind panic when they discover they can't get rid of them!

He definatly needs to be sent away to be rebroken by someone who specialises in remedial horses.

I am sure natural horsemanship would work but probably only by an expert as he seems so highly scared already, also lunging can conflict with join up and make it even harder to pair.
 
Why the hell did she send her horse to someone using this strange method of backing?
How long has she had this horse and how was he handled up to backing , as he seems so quite to handle but difficult to ride.
I feel sorry for your friend and this horse and hope he is partnered with an understanding and competent rider
 
its a bit crazy cos I actually break 30 + horses a year, and well this "guy" gets the horses backed n ridden in a few weeks, even the most difficult horse he will ride. personally id never ever send my horses anywhere like that.

we tried teh straw n sand bags method. didnt work. he bucked it off! lol

also the "breaker guy" did litterally break him ( and the others thats been there) he and thers have come back sooooooo raw around teh girth its unreal. so obviously rider + saddle= pain!
then when teh horse returns and it gets back to full health it obviously feels better and we have problems seen as he hasnt broken the horse to ride, just broken its body! Hopefully no other horses will be sent to him maybe the owner will have realised now.

we have several fields and he just jumps out. even electric he runs through then jumps the solid fence. we have the horses full brother and well he was also a hard horse to ride.

we had one girl whos tried to become friends with him, we turn him in the stallion paddock (sand high fenced paddock) for half a day and try working him then. it seems to help, but he knows how to get us off.

i might try and suggest the sedaline way next.

p.s - i dont want to mention where we are cos of the breaker guy?? hence why not using "horsey's name"

thanks guys. I just want to get thishorse going and hopefully he will get a good home instead of a bullet
 
There are lots of ways you could fix this horse but the biggest thing you could give him is time.
He obviously equates saddles with pain and rough handling, and this will probably remain in his head for life if the circumstances remind him.
Provided his girth area has healed I would find a soft sheepskin girth guard and put a roller on him 24/7. Not tight, just comfortable, but so he gets used to something round the area. Make sure you pad the spine area and remove it every day for a bit of a soothing massage.
From there you just progress back to leaning over him in the box every day for literally weeks until he doesn't even flick an ear at it.
Often what frightens nervous types is seeing something above them, so you need to be 100% sure he isn't worried.
I would then revert to his lungeing/long reining and then start leading him out inside a saner horse, in full tack and trotting alongside etc.
On every return stand him between the horse and the mounting block and lean over him patting his sides.
The next step is the most dangerous one so perhaps have him with someone leading him from both the horse and the ground, but after his return and his usual routine you quietly step on and go straight off being led again by both parties (you have your reins obviously too).
If you have done your prep work he should just walk alongside the other horse as he has done for the previous weeks.
I would then increase the distance of riding him as he gets calmer.
I rarely advocate sedalin but it is useful in removing that "wild" streak, but if he is at all stressed the adrenilin will make it not work effectively, so it's vital you use your head before moving on every time.
My daughter's horse is getting better all the time as he matures, but we don't take chances, as he will use excitement at an event as the trigger and try and buck her off before the dressage. In his case his feral type streak was very well developed, and all he was doing was removing what he felt was a predator, I think your horse is doing exactly the same, but with good reason, pain..
I'd like to hog tie our Argentinian friend and dunk him in a pond a few times underwater, perhaps then he would understand what his methods do to animals..
ps me if you need more help, I'd rather advise than see a horse put down for human error.. though the fact he is so nervous worries me, are you sure there are no veterinary problems hiding?
 
[ QUOTE ]
my friends 4 yr old, 16.3hh appolossa gelding is a very nervous baby, hes strange and will let us fully clip him no probs, do basically anything you would expect him to be scared of to him, but do "normal " things and hes scared.

teh horse was sent to an agrentine guy to be broken. this guy basically runs the horses into the ground, then hobbles them and rides them away.

when teh horse came back we had to hobble him to mount, then we could ride him (afetr lunging)

but horsey now bronc's everyone off (3 ppl so far - and we have now found out 3 of his grooms too)

the owner is considering having horsey put to sleep if we cant do anything else. hes becoming danegrous.

but...... b4 xmas i had the horse jumping with me and his back...... he seemed ok, green but OK.

sureley we can bring him round this horse has serious potential. it jumps anything and we have loosed it over 6ft!!! several times, he jumps out of teh field (so hes fully stabled)

we feed him just haylage so hes not getting much food.

if you lunge him to tire himout he seems to run on adrenaline and is worse than ever. we even tried "natural horsemanship" but he dosnt like people, weve tried pairing him up with a horse so he can have a friend, he wont even interact with other horses??????

what can we try, he will lunge great tacked up, had his back n teeth done, all ok. its just one day he will let you ride, the next day he wont even let us mount????

if we could turn him out we would n try again in summer but he jumps out.

any suggestions please????

[/ QUOTE ]


Is this post for real because if it is then you have a big problem.

You are right about one thing though. Your friends horse is well and truly broken
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I agree with all those that say give him time.
This horse needs to learn to trust people not to hurt or trick him, and who can blame him? Personally speaking I have had the most problems with horses/ponies that have had 'dumb jockeys' used. Re the jumping out, I would try to get a block and mesh fence 8ft, and use this to give him some form of turnout. Poor horse
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Agree with the above - the poor boy has lost trust and faith in humans and needs time. I wonder if it is perhaps best not to try to get on him again and just give him some time to 'chill', so that he can start to relate to people again and regain his confidence.

It's sad - this should never have happened.
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Ditto all of the above!
My friend has a gelding that was jumped out of his skin at 4, beaten etc! He is the most loving horse on foot but horrible under saddle!

Naps, bronks, rears etc etc!! Had everyone off..was sent to some chap who used natural methods..along with using a face mask with eye guard..not sure what there called
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which were completley taped out apart from small space at front! Only focused on what was in front of him....it worked for him! Stopped him from napping and bad behaviour even under saddle after a while. They slowly removed tape and if he napped etc thent the part was recoverd.

He is now ridden, jumped, schooled etc has funny moments here and there but wondefull otherwise
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Not sure if any help as you said about not liking people!!! xx
 
I agree that there are many different methods to be used, but the difficulty is finding a method that suits the horse with a person experienced enough to use said method effectively.
The blindfold is quite common, but not to be used without prior extensive knowledge of the whys and wherefores.
 
My had a baby who did this too so you're not alone! His back would come right up and you didnt stand much of a chance but once he realised he was safe he would calm donw and work fine. My solution was to take it really really slowly and tack him up as much as possible but then just leave him in the stable for a while so saddle didnt automatcially equal stress to him. I did this a few times a day when possible. then I would work, still in the stable on just holding his head and getting a foot in the stirrup, at first with someone holding his head. and then getting on and off in the stable lots of times and just taking a few steps around his stable with me on him. When I thought i had this cracked and he was relaxed through the whole mounting process i moved to the school but he took a few steps backwards and resorted to broncing as soon as you were on. A friend of mine recommend turning his head as far around to face you as possible when i was mounting. Meant he could see exactly what was going on but crucially couldnt get his head back donw quick enough to bronc when i wa son him and could take a couple of minutes just standing there with his head still turned around to think about life, then let his head turn out slowly back to straight. Took about 6 weeks in all but then he was an angel
 
I haven't read other posts but why on earth was this man chosen to back the horse in the first place. He now sounds like his experiences have totally put him off being ridden and you will now need huge patience to retrain him that being ridden is not a bad thing.

I am quite shocked to be honest that the owner would allow this to happen and this poor horse will have been put in danger of being labelled a difficult horse and PTS. All because of a bad start through no fault of his own.
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If this was my horse I would turn him out with a larger group of other horses, have at least six months off (or up to a year if possible) and just let him unwind and calm down. The interaction with the other horses would be priceless for him and at four years old time is on his side, also at 16.3 he will probably not have matured yet. When you start to break him in start from scatch and hopefully (because you should have been buiding up a bond just popping to see him in the field, feeding, changing rugs etc) he will see you as someone to trust. I sincerely hope you can help this poor horse, it sounds like it deserves a bit of luck!
 
Likewise - I'd turn him away for at least 6 months. Send him to someone who has acres of grazing with good hedges and/ or fences, where he can go out with a herd of well mannered companions.

He might jump out of one field but probably isn't going jump out of them all - it might mean sending him somewhere miles away on grazing part livery if there's nowhere round your way like that.

He sounds extremely stressed and being shut in a stable 24hrs a day isn't going to help him.

Then when his owner decides his turn-away time is up, he needs proper handling to get him used to all the 'normal' things in life before any attempt is made to ride him.

Like wearing rugs, being hosed, groomed, caught, led about in hand etc, generally played with from the ground, so he trusts people first. It sounds like this part of his education has been skipped and then he's been brutalised by the 'trainer'
 
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