Help/advice desperately needed re horse behaviour.

I've been through / am going through something similar. I bought my horse in September - I knew him for about 6 months before I bought him and he was lovely, a real gent. I moved him to a new yard and overnight he turned into a demon - everyone said he was too much for me (he's my first horse which hasn't helped so I knew nothing and was at the mercy of everyones advice and bad) but I've persevered and he's ok now - well almost he still has his off days where he plays up something terrible, naps, spins, half rears and generally behaves badly but they are far outweighted by lovely pleasant rides and cuddles.

The turning point for me was when I decided that he needed a routine and needed to know me and only me - I wouldn't let anyone else handle him and I took him in and out of the field at different times to the other horses. He soon lost his separation anxiety and started to learn that I would fulfil his needs - bingo he very quickly started to look for me and watch me where ever I went.

I tried the stern approach (again on advice from others at the yard) but found that he responded much better to kind words, gentle stroking and a little treat when he had been a good boy...

He comes to me now when I go into the field - the first day he did this my heart nearly burst (even though I know he was only looking for a treat) so like I said we have our off days but on the whole we've made great progress and I wouldn't swop or be without him for the world

Good Luck - hang in there and think postive thoughts x
 
LouLou3 said:
I've been through / am going through something similar. I bought my horse in September - I knew him for about 6 months before I bought him and he was lovely, a real gent. I moved him to a new yard and overnight he turned into a demon - everyone said he was too much for me (he's my first horse which hasn't helped so I knew nothing and was at the mercy of everyones advice and bad) but I've persevered and he's ok now - well almost he still has his off days where he plays up something terrible, naps, spins, half rears and generally behaves badly but they are far outweighted by lovely pleasant rides and cuddles.

The turning point for me was when I decided that he needed a routine and needed to know me and only me - I wouldn't let anyone else handle him and I took him in and out of the field at different times to the other horses. He soon lost his separation anxiety and started to learn that I would fulfil his needs - bingo he very quickly started to look for me and watch me where ever I went.

I tried the stern approach (again on advice from others at the yard) but found that he responded much better to kind words, gentle stroking and a little treat when he had been a good boy...

He comes to me now when I go into the field - the first day he did this my heart nearly burst (even though I know he was only looking for a treat) so like I said we have our off days but on the whole we've made great progress and I wouldn't swop or be without him for the world

Good Luck - hang in there and think postive thoughts x
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Thank you ever so much for your post. It sounds like we could have very similar horses and its made me feel an awfull lot better. I will not give up on him...if i did i think it would be a one way ticket to the meat man. Also...when we have a good day jumping etc he is the most brilliant pony in the world.
People on here may disagree with me....but i just absolutely do not think the stern approach will work with paddy....and to be honest i dont blame him. I wouldnt want to do thinks just because people forced me into it, i would want to do something because it was fun and enjoyable and non stressfull. I definately think with him a bit like your horse, a pat, kind words and just showing them that we are not out to hurt them will be the way forwards.

Thats really great to hear that you and your horse have turned the corner and are now having much more of a lovely time.
I think all nappy/insecure horses will always have it in them to have bad days but i think if you accept that then as you say....the good days will outweigh the bad.
Thanks Loulou your post was very inspirational :)
 
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He sounds a little like my horse...very sensitive, needs a routine ans simply cannot be handled roughly or shouted at- it makes him worse .

My horse has obviously done a lot in the past- very well schooled etc- but been passed around a lot possibly becasue of his nature- weaves, gets anxious easily- not very confident but a lovely personality and very very loyal- a one-human-horse IYKWIM, he plays my OH up no end.

He doesnt like changes in routine- if he's in at night and then goes out 24/7 he's unsettled for a while, and the same in autumn when he's back in at nights.

He really needs me to be confident and take a lead- over the years I have had him (6) he has gone from being very nappy/spooky and nervous to being able to hack him around on his own pretty much anywhere- he is still sharp but much more confident simply because I realised I wasn't doing either of us any favours by avoiding situations etc.

He will be stabled happily at the usual time but if I attempted to take one the others out before him he would get very stressed and start weaving and barging the door. Box rest was a nightmare:eek:

I think given time your horse will come good -he sounds lacking in confidence and the sort of horse who becomes unsettled when his routine changes.

Another thing.....cereals/mixes and some chops ( wiyth alfalfa and mollases in) really make him worse- its instantly noticeable- so he gets a fibre/oil diet and magnitude calmer and he's 100% better than when I got him.

Stick with it- and good luck:D
 
Hi, Skychick.

The thing that stood out to me, was the fact that he dislikes being groomed and also this started when he went on 24/7. I’m wondering, therefore if his immune system is reacting to either a change in feed (with the immune system being stimulated in the gut) or to the flies/sun, resulting in a systemic hypersensitivity to touch. My own skin reacts to the sun in the late spring and I get a nasty rash anywhere exposed to UV, which is torture, so it does happen. My mare is hypersensitive and feeding Brewer’s Yeast in combination with linseed and magnesium has really changed her skin (that and she still has fur on her bum – she had wounds and a bald dock this time last year).
I agree with the other poster that you were probably calmer just being on foot when you led him out, but also, you didn’t have any tack on him. If he’s hypersensitive, then a saddle and cloth would be torture. Does he react when you tack him up at all, or does he wear rugs? You also said that when you got him back he was fine. What time did you get back? Have you tried walking him out in tack, to see if there’s a difference? Also, what about grooming in the field? My thinking there is that if he associates the stable with being tacked up, then maybe the anticipation of it is winding him up.
It could be a confidence issue (and I agree with whoever said that from March to now isn’t a long time – my pony took a good 6 months to settle with me, but he was a bit of a case when I got him). Again, I agree with people suggesting to lead him out for a while. I did this with a very anxious pony years ago and used to get on part way through the walk and ride home. I got on closer and closer to the start of the ride and one day got on AT the start!

It’s nice that you are looking for causes and ways to help him, rather than jumping on the ‘naughty horse’ bandwagon. Witholding basic feed as a punishment is absolute claptrap and completely unethical, not to mention ineffective.

Hope you get it sorted out. My own mare has come a long way since she came to me last year, so even when they are incredibly scared, they do learn and cease to over-react. Chloe used to stand with her rump shaking when I put a feed down, with her hinds tucked under her like she was poised to gallop away. I groom her and even apply fly-goo to her untied, now (fly-goo is another story and I don't know that she'll EVER tolerate spray on her skin!). Good luck!
 
It really is almost impossible to say without seeing you, the horse and the situation, but you've been offered lots of good options.

One thing about the timeline I'm confused about, though . . .

In what order has he been turned out, got a new saddle, and started the difficult behaviour?

I'm not necessarily saying it's a saddle issue but it's an unfortunate fact that the only one who can REALLY tell you if the saddle fits is the horse. Just because it looks okay doesn't mean it feels okay, and - to be really unconventional - I've seen horses go better in saddles that don't seem to be a perfect fit, than in ones that do.

There is also the possibility he's injured himself in some way. There is a tendancy, when a situation has changed, to discount the sorts of causes you might look at if everything else had stayed the same.

Also, you implied his social situation has changed, which can be very stressful for a horse. We tend to have a rather "pie in the sky" idea that herds are the best situation for horses but in fact it's STABLE herds that are the most comfortable. Moving horses around, adding and subtracting, all these sorts of things cause a great deal of stress and some horses are more sensitive to it than others.

The problem is that stress is cumulative so the event that seems to trigger a change in behaviour is possibly only the last in a chain of stressors. So a horse might be able to deal with a and b, but the addition of c pushes him over the edge. And removing that last piece of the puzzle does not necessarily mean the horse goes back to the way it was.

You're idea of getting him looked at by the physio is a good one - worth a shot and will at least reassure you. (Although not everything that's wrong with a horse can be found by a physio . . .)

You do say the horse doesn't get much to eat - any possibility it could be ulcers? He sounds stressed and unwillingness to be groomed and discomfort under saddle are classic symptoms. The past stresses in his life and the recent changes do make him a prime candidate.

What is interesting is you seem to have, from your report, a good handle on him on the ground. How does he react if you're there and correct his behaviour in the stable when he's upset? If he ignores you that's definitely an area to work on. While I understand that horses have good reasons for the behaviour the display the first rule has to be, no matter what, do not stand on the puny human.
 
Here's how I see it.
When he came to you and was fine the first week, mostly they will be very quiet and watchful firstly to sum up their surroundings. It is usual after the first week or two that you will see them change.
He has only been with you for a a couple of months and only 6 months in the home before. 6 Months isn't even necessarily time for a sensitive horse to settle and then he was moved on again. He was with you for a short time and then the routine changed. That's more than enough change to confuse and upset him. I would spend time building the realationship and remember to be consistant, never mind those who say yell or hit or whatever. Stay calm and be firm. Not heavy handed, i think he is far too sensitive for that sort of treatment but will respond to firm and fair treatment. He needs you to be the leader. It is all new to him, people, horses, surroundings etc. He needs to build trust and look to you to keep him safe.
My mare thrives on routine and when we turned out for the summer it took her a week or two to adjust to is and she has been with me for 7 years. Any change to her routine and she reacts to it.
You also say that he is in a starvation paddock, has he got enough to keep him from being hungry.

Also the original saddle might have created hot spots and then the new one might be pushing on those bits which might be hurting.

the next bit bothered me a bit
quote 'In his stable he is never allowed hay when he is tied up and he is always tied up short.
I can tie him up and leave him there and he just carries on kicking, scraping, rearing, sitting back on his haunches.
Re the hacking out....he will do it with anyone. I had my instructor ride him and make him go down the lane. it makes no difference next time he just does the same again. He is nt the sort of horse to get a "man" to handle. He is just scared i think. He is not strong at all when ridden or being lead. '

If he doesn't like being tied up, is there a reason to be tied in his stable, especially tied up short. If he is getting so upset that he is doing all that stuff then I think I would avoid tying him up and certainly wouldn't leave him. If whatever he is tied to isn't breaking, he could do himself a great deal of harm, he could even break his neck. It's not safe to do that. As for leaving him without hay as a punishment, reprimand has to be instananeous if that is what you are going to do, he won't stand in his stable and think, 'oh ****, i haven't got hay because i was really naughty'. Especially if he is confused or worried and not meaning to be bad.

I think he needs to settle in and have some continuity. I would do what you are doing by getting him out on the lead rein and get to know each other. Get all the pain issues seen to You will get there, they are sensitive and intelligent animals and it all takes time. You will be so rewarded when it is all sorted and you have a fabby pony.
 
Reading your post again, a later one. I bought a horse and found out that I was his 7th owner in 2 years,he had been a Grade A showjumper in his time,but mental and feet troubles had ended that as he turned up at a meat market. I didn't buy him from there, but off a friend. First 18 months was a learning curve, he liked being turned out during day,but needed to be stabled at night, if I tried leaving him out during night nightmare, but you couldn't leave him in stable for more than 12 hours. He was turned out in the worse of weather or the hottest and he was happy bunny as long as kept to his routine, that he was happy with, had him for 11 years, before pts because of old age and arthertis:):):)
 
chestnuttymare said:
If he doesn't like being tied up, is there a reason to be tied in his stable, especially tied up short. If he is getting so upset that he is doing all that stuff then I think I would avoid tying him up and certainly wouldn't leave him. If whatever he is tied to isn't breaking, he could do himself a great deal of harm, he could even break his neck. It's not safe to do that. As for leaving him without hay as a punishment, reprimand has to be instananeous if that is what you are going to do, he won't stand in his stable and think, 'oh ****, i haven't got hay because i was really naughty'. Especially if he is confused or worried and not meaning to be bad.
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Excellent point.
 
QR - soz, don't have time to read all the other posts as my housework is glaring at me... but thought i'd give you my 2pence worth... the fact that you ride him bareback with no problems might mean it's saddle related?!?! also, if he tits about when you bring him in/groom him etc, perhaps it's cos he's anticipating having saddle on/going out etc?

apologies if this is all checked.

i hope you manage to get it sorted. poor you. sounds hellish. :( xxx
 
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chestnuttymare said:
If he doesn't like being tied up, is there a reason to be tied in his stable, especially tied up short. If he is getting so upset that he is doing all that stuff then I think I would avoid tying him up and certainly wouldn't leave him. If whatever he is tied to isn't breaking, he could do himself a great deal of harm, he could even break his neck. It's not safe to do that. As for leaving him without hay as a punishment, reprimand has to be instananeous if that is what you are going to do, he won't stand in his stable and think, 'oh ****, i haven't got hay because i was really naughty'. Especially if he is confused or worried and not meaning to be bad.

I think he needs to settle in and have some continuity. I would do what you are doing by getting him out on the lead rein and get to know each other. Get all the pain issues seen to You will get there, they are sensitive and intelligent animals and it all takes time. You will be so rewarded when it is all sorted and you have a fabby pony.
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He does need to be tied up in his stable otherwise he will keep turning round etc and can do it quite fast so he does get tied up. He gets tied up relatively short otherwise he will turn and squash you up against the wall if he is in a funny mood. Other days he is perfectly fine and he doesnt need to be tied up, but i tie him up to keep him used to being tied up in the stabl and to keep a routine.
He doesnt get hay when he is tied up a) because he never has had hay when he is eating, its not something i have stopped, its something that i have never done with my horses and i dont want to start that routine and b) because he is normally tied up just before i ride so i dont want him getting a belly full of food.

Yeah i think alot of the problem is that he still isnt settled. He probably thinks that he will be moved on soon again. Poor boy!
 
TarrSteps said:
It really is almost impossible to say without seeing you, the horse and the situation, but you've been offered lots of good options.

One thing about the timeline I'm confused about, though . . .

In what order has he been turned out, got a new saddle, and started the difficult behaviour?
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He was turned out on the tuesday morning, i rode tuesday night, he was fine, he was out on the tuesday night for the first time and the bad behaviour started on the wednesday. The saddle was fitted the following week.
 
TarrSteps said:
You're idea of getting him looked at by the physio is a good one - worth a shot and will at least reassure you. (Although not everything that's wrong with a horse can be found by a physio . . .)

You do say the horse doesn't get much to eat - any possibility it could be ulcers? He sounds stressed and unwillingness to be groomed and discomfort under saddle are classic symptoms. The past stresses in his life and the recent changes do make him a prime candidate.
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The physio is the start. I know he has a couple of sensitive areas on him, so am starting with the physio so that she can look at muscles etc and give him a once over. After that if the vet thinks and after another reassesment after the physio i will also get a osteo or chiro out to have a look at him too.

Untill they come he will not be ridden and just lead out in hand instead.

When i say he doesnt get much to eat, he is on a paddock where he can nibble all day....but there is not enough for "spring grass" to be affecting him etc. He is not on a bare field.....just a field with no lush grass.
Although you could be right about the ulcers....so i shall mention that to the vet.

Thanks very much for all of your help guys. Its all very much appreciated
 
johnrobert said:
Reading your post again, a later one. I bought a horse and found out that I was his 7th owner in 2 years,he had been a Grade A showjumper in his time,but mental and feet troubles had ended that as he turned up at a meat market. I didn't buy him from there, but off a friend. First 18 months was a learning curve, he liked being turned out during day,but needed to be stabled at night, if I tried leaving him out during night nightmare, but you couldn't leave him in stable for more than 12 hours. He was turned out in the worse of weather or the hottest and he was happy bunny as long as kept to his routine, that he was happy with, had him for 11 years, before pts because of old age and arthertis:):):)
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Hmmm thats very interesting how the horse wanted to be stabled at night.
Although he always seems keen to go out to the field. I will have a good think about his routine and see if there are any signs of anything that would be more preferable to him. Thanks for your sugestion
 
skychick said:
He does need to be tied up in his stable otherwise he will keep turning round etc and can do it quite fast so he does get tied up. He gets tied up relatively short otherwise he will turn and squash you up against the wall if he is in a funny mood. Other days he is perfectly fine and he doesnt need to be tied up, but i tie him up to keep him used to being tied up in the stabl and to keep a routine.
He doesnt get hay when he is tied up a) because he never has had hay when he is eating, its not something i have stopped, its something that i have never done with my horses and i dont want to start that routine and b) because he is normally tied up just before i ride so i dont want him getting a belly full of food.

Yeah i think alot of the problem is that he still isnt settled. He probably thinks that he will be moved on soon again. Poor boy!
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Hi I have read again some of the replies... And starting with this post here. He will not get a belly full of food with hay.. Horses are suspposed to always have a half full belly so to speak, i.e always grazing little bits. A belly full of food would be a big feed bucket of food in which case you certainly wouldn't want to ride him. Let him eat some hay. It might well relax him - I bring my mare in before I ride and always have haylage there for her to keep her busy whilst I flaff around. Nothing wrong with that. Give it a go.

b) Tying him up short because he may turn around is like closing the door. What I mean is treat the problem not the syptom. So I would work on that. Again for an example your horse should be able to stand quietly in his stable with you around him... it's not going to be easy but tying him up really short does not help if he is anxious etc, it will make him feel trapped. Why not tie him up but have a really long leadrope, so you feel safe. Hold the lead rope basically put the lead rope through the twine but do not tie it up hold on to the end of the rope... Get a good book on Horse behaviour (I CANNOT RECOMMENT ENOUGH MICHAEL PEACE'S BOOKS) and this will give you some tips on how to deal with his behaviour.

c) Did you say he is fine to ride bareback but not with his saddle on?? That would be a huge indicator that his saddle is possibly uncomfortable!

Just to add one more thing, an overgrazed field with the horse just eating the roots, is the worst part of the grass to eat, i.e this is where all the sugars are stored, so effectively he is eating more sugar that what the tops of longer grass can have.. The thing about lots of lush grass is they can eat tonnes of it, as there is so much there - but do not discount short roots of the grass.

x
 
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Heidirusso....keep the good advice coming. I actually never really thought that about the short grass so that is very interesting.

There is another reason he is tied up short......he is a bit of a b*gger for picking things up with his teeth or sticking his head where he shouldnt! Its not uncommon if i tie him up in the yard for him to pick up other peoples items with his teeth and drop them in the water trough he has done this with a head collar, a numnah that was drying etc.
He will frequently pick my grooming kit up with his teeth and tip it over too.....which can be really embarrasing if its someone elses stuff!
I try and make sure that i leave my grooming kit well away from him and walk and get the brushes i need and make sure that everyones stuff is out of reach!!
Every time i do tie him up (he has done this ever since i have had him) he will bite on the quick release knot of the rope a few times and then untie himself.

I will try having some haylidge for him to munch on when i am grooming etc and doing generall faffing.

There is definate soreness somewhere in his back. I rode him in the arena for about 15 mins lasntnight and he seemed like he was hollowing and running rather than using himself at all. And each time i put him into canter on the right rein he would buck and jump sideways. In his old saddle he would strike off on the wrong lead each time in canter on the right rein, now he strikes off on the correct leg but with a buck and sideways jump. Not a napping type buck and jump, this is more an ouch type buck and jump.
People keep telling me its because he has got a new saddle and feels different so he is probably using muscles that he hasnt used for a long time etc and it feels weird to him. But im not convinced on that, his stride is a lot shorter, more tense and uncomfortable.
SO....untill he has been seen by all of the necessary people he will not be ridden. He is not the sort of horse that has to be worked everyday so 5 days non ridden wont hurt him and i will focus on leading him out and doing groundwork. Its just such a shame that i cant get anyone out untill the 1st june.

I was definately thinking about getting a book about horse behaviour so any reccomendations are much appreciated. I shall have a look for the book you have suggested Heidirusso.

There is definately some fantastic suggestions/advice thanks a million.
 
just keep in mind most of his life hes proberly had the rough treatment. Especially from kids. He really is sounding like hes body has a few issues. Im not by any meens a nh fan but i hav seen good results with the clicker training. This may give u both a new focus and could b used to help with the tying up and grooming. Not to mention a bit of fun. If u feel like u need some support PLEASe yell
 
Skychick - it sounds like you bought my pony! 16 years ago we bought my 14.2hh 'jumping pony', he was very flash looking, had the BSJA record etc etc but turned out he too had been passed around (alot!) due to his quirky behaviour and inconsistency when it came to jumping.

When I got him, you couldn't tie him up, couldn't touch his ears/head and he would throw himself out of the wagon, rush through narrow spaces (ie bolt out of his stable), wouldn't go in a stable unless there was straw down etc etc. It was all confidence (or lack of) now, granted he didn't nap or anything whne out but he was scared of large vehicles and if there was anything spokky/scary he would really get het up and would remain on his toes for the rest of the ride. He was ultra ultra sensitive to how confident the rider was - I once put my mum on him at the end of a hack and, her being a more nervy rider he obviously picked up on it and went from plodding along to being a complete nerous wreck (we didn't do that again! Lol)

However, time and patience and he improved. He stopped panicking when tied up and stopped breaking the string anytime anything alarmed him, the rushing through gaps etc improved as did his general confidence. I found it was best to always ride him on a normal contact (ie not on the buckle end type of riding) so that he always felt you 'there' and it also meant he didn't tense up when or if you took up a contact if you though "ooh,he might not like x,y or z"

You have only had him 2 months so you will have to persevere - 16 years on mine is still a quirky little man and still has his moments (yep he's 24 but still a prat on occasion!) but we understand each other now! He even went on two separate occasions to youngish teenage girls who adored him but even after a short loan he came back with some naugty evasive behaviours he picked up - one being spinning round fi he didn't fancy going past something. So, it would not surprise me if your pony picked up these habits from who you got him from pretty quickly if she wasn't a particularly confident rider/handler.

Tips when you're out - if he is pre-empting something try yourself to look elsewhere to take your mind off what he's doing/reacting to - this helps take your mind off what he may be worrying about. Even try singing/talking anything. You will be amazed what little signs they can pick up on from your body if you eveb get the slightest bit tense so you have to train yourself. When I got my sensitive little man i had previously been one who had an 'electric bum' as they called it - I had to train myself out of that!

I am sure with time, patience and calm but firm handling he will improve. Try ignore the naughtiness when he's tied up BUT if he does get pushing he needs to be told that is not acceptable so a swift sharp sound from you or alternative calming words (dependent on the situation) may work.
 
jhoward said:
just keep in mind most of his life hes proberly had the rough treatment. Especially from kids. He really is sounding like hes body has a few issues. Im not by any meens a nh fan but i hav seen good results with the clicker training. This may give u both a new focus and could b used to help with the tying up and grooming. Not to mention a bit of fun. If u feel like u need some support PLEASe yell
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Yes i think its highly likely that he has probably been treated firmly in the past.
I am pretty sure he needs some attention for his back and neck. He had had some time off so i wanted to ride him lastnight to see if the new saddle made any difference so now wont be ridden untill he has had a thorough examination by however many different sorts of people it takes.

Clicker training, now thats an interesting idea. I have seen it work very very well with dogs. But to be honest i really wouldnt know how to go about starting that so i will have to have a look for some information as it could be very good and like you say it could be a bit of fun and another thing to work with whilst he is not being ridden.
Is this something you have done yourself....if so.....how did you go about getting into it??
 
ladyt25 said:
Skychick - it sounds like you bought my pony! 16 years ago we bought my 14.2hh 'jumping pony', he was very flash looking, had the BSJA record etc etc but turned out he too had been passed around (alot!) due to his quirky behaviour and inconsistency when it came to jumping.

When I got him, you couldn't tie him up, couldn't touch his ears/head and he would throw himself out of the wagon, rush through narrow spaces (ie bolt out of his stable), wouldn't go in a stable unless there was straw down etc etc. It was all confidence (or lack of) now, granted he didn't nap or anything whne out but he was scared of large vehicles and if there was anything spokky/scary he would really get het up and would remain on his toes for the rest of the ride. He was ultra ultra sensitive to how confident the rider was - I once put my mum on him at the end of a hack and, her being a more nervy rider he obviously picked up on it and went from plodding along to being a complete nerous wreck (we didn't do that again! Lol)

However, time and patience and he improved. He stopped panicking when tied up and stopped breaking the string anytime anything alarmed him, the rushing through gaps etc improved as did his general confidence. I found it was best to always ride him on a normal contact (ie not on the buckle end type of riding) so that he always felt you 'there' and it also meant he didn't tense up when or if you took up a contact if you though "ooh,he might not like x,y or z"

You have only had him 2 months so you will have to persevere - 16 years on mine is still a quirky little man and still has his moments (yep he's 24 but still a prat on occasion!) but we understand each other now! He even went on two separate occasions to youngish teenage girls who adored him but even after a short loan he came back with some naugty evasive behaviours he picked up - one being spinning round fi he didn't fancy going past something. So, it would not surprise me if your pony picked up these habits from who you got him from pretty quickly if she wasn't a particularly confident rider/handler.

Tips when you're out - if he is pre-empting something try yourself to look elsewhere to take your mind off what he's doing/reacting to - this helps take your mind off what he may be worrying about. Even try singing/talking anything. You will be amazed what little signs they can pick up on from your body if you eveb get the slightest bit tense so you have to train yourself. When I got my sensitive little man i had previously been one who had an 'electric bum' as they called it - I had to train myself out of that!

I am sure with time, patience and calm but firm handling he will improve. Try ignore the naughtiness when he's tied up BUT if he does get pushing he needs to be told that is not acceptable so a swift sharp sound from you or alternative calming words (dependent on the situation) may work.
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It wouldnt surprise me if this was the case that he had picked up some bad habits from his previous owner. She had gone from a very quiet pony to paddy...who in my eyes (napping etc aside) is very quiet, hence i bought him, i wasnt looking to compete as such, maybe the odd local show and fun ride and a play on the cross country course, but certainly nothing major.
He is forward going but not strong, he jumps beautifully but doesnt rush/charge etc, but then i have been used to highly strung horses in the past so maybe for someone moving up the horsey ladder he was too advanced for her. Anyway she was scared of him, so he may have had a few months of getting away with whatever he wanted and probably walked all over her.
I think it is surprising actually how quickly they can pick up "quirks".

I agree i think its going to be a case of going back to basics, establishing a routing, establishing trust with each other etc and a lot of patience and praise.

I have to admit, the napping and sometimes vile stable behaviour aside he is actually a brilliant pony.
He is not the slightest bit worried about any traffic. When out on a hack with his nanny horse ( a 4 year old ex race horse who is so laid back, but not keen on traffic) paddy will always stand between the other horse and a lorry/trailer etc and stands there rock still.
I can lead him anywhere, into a trailer, into a strange space, into a shed/barn, different stable. He doesnt rush through gaps. I always make him stand still for a few seconds when i go to lead him out of his stable so that he doesnt learn to rush or barge etc so he is very confident if i am leading him.
I couldnt touch paddys ears/face/head either when i first had him.

Singing does seem to help when riding out....although i think all of the neighbours are sick of "ten green bottles" so i will have to think of another repetitive song!!
 
ive not used it myself but have a couple of friends that do, one friend has a lot to do with dartmoor hill ponies straight off the moors, and they use it to teach them to pick up feet etc. she also uses it with her nervous pony. Alot of people worry about the horse becoming food greedy but from what ive seen they dont atall.

there are a couple of good books on clicker training.
 
Hmm thats quite interesting, i will have a look around and see what i can find.

Thanks for you help, really appreciated.
 
Hi,
I'm sorry if I repeat anything any one else has said as I haven't read all the replies but thought I might be of some help.
I have had some similar issues with my mare and have found Kelly Marks - Perfect manners a real help. There are lots of ground work exercises to complete which help to teach the horse to respect you and help build up a bond.
I would say however that although my mare is now generally good -any change in her routine and her behaviour detiriates -for example just a rotation of fields. She calms down after a week or so but needs daily handling to keep her in check.
 
Hi louandbee, thanks for the suggestion of the book. Someone else reccomended it to me and i think it does look like a really good book to invest in, it seems that it has a lot of good reviews so may well be worth a read to get some help from it.
Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Lots of great advice.

I'm in a similar position myself but have seen the light at the end of the tunnel hopefully.

I've had Toby since last summer and though a bit spooky and green to hack and needs a routine, he has been fantastic, I've done a few dressage comps, SJ clinics etc and he has really looked after me.

I moved my 4 ponies to a new yard at the end of March and though he seemed fine for the first week our relationship went rapidly downhill - he became very spooky and awkward to handle. He also started bucking when ridden, very unlike him. I decided to get everything checked even though his teeth weren't due and his saddle had only been checked a few weeks before. It turns out that his back was v sore due to the saddle :(

I'm still in the process of getting his back sorted so he is just being lunged at the moment.

Now for the good news, I think a combination of things caused the problems (moving to a new yard, spring grass and saddle) and so a combination of things have helped:

He was obviously more relaxed after having his back done, within in a couple of days he wasn't holding himself as tense etc.

He has slowly got used to the yard - even though mine live out 24/7 I bring them up to the yard everyday for a small feed and groom, this is mainly for Toby's benefit to get him used to his stable etc and he enjoys the fuss. He has now gone from rushing to the door all the time to lying down for a snooze if he is in there for longer than 10 mins...

I've been doing some groundwork with him - I'm in contact with his previous owners and they have been very happy to show me the groundwork they used to do with him. Most importantly it has made ME so much more confident when he does spook (I know how to get him out of my face and now find his behaviour really doesn't bother me) and I think my 'non' reaction to his behaviour and carrying on with what I want him to do actually calms him down. I'm really enjoying spending this quality time with him and it stops him getting bored too. It is also filling the time until I can ride him again!

Lastly I've been using the Relax Me calmer - wont know if it really works until I run out lol.

I think you are doing the correct things i.e not riding until everything checked and doing some groundwork in the meantime.

Fingers crossed we can both get on with enjoying our lovely horses soon :) Before the end of the summer lol...
 
Chumsmum said:
Lots of great advice.

I'm in a similar position myself but have seen the light at the end of the tunnel hopefully.

I've had Toby since last summer and though a bit spooky and green to hack and needs a routine, he has been fantastic, I've done a few dressage comps, SJ clinics etc and he has really looked after me.

I moved my 4 ponies to a new yard at the end of March and though he seemed fine for the first week our relationship went rapidly downhill - he became very spooky and awkward to handle. He also started bucking when ridden, very unlike him. I decided to get everything checked even though his teeth weren't due and his saddle had only been checked a few weeks before. It turns out that his back was v sore due to the saddle :(

I'm still in the process of getting his back sorted so he is just being lunged at the moment.

Now for the good news, I think a combination of things caused the problems (moving to a new yard, spring grass and saddle) and so a combination of things have helped:

He was obviously more relaxed after having his back done, within in a couple of days he wasn't holding himself as tense etc.

He has slowly got used to the yard - even though mine live out 24/7 I bring them up to the yard everyday for a small feed and groom, this is mainly for Toby's benefit to get him used to his stable etc and he enjoys the fuss. He has now gone from rushing to the door all the time to lying down for a snooze if he is in there for longer than 10 mins...

I've been doing some groundwork with him - I'm in contact with his previous owners and they have been very happy to show me the groundwork they used to do with him. Most importantly it has made ME so much more confident when he does spook (I know how to get him out of my face and now find his behaviour really doesn't bother me) and I think my 'non' reaction to his behaviour and carrying on with what I want him to do actually calms him down. I'm really enjoying spending this quality time with him and it stops him getting bored too. It is also filling the time until I can ride him again!

Lastly I've been using the Relax Me calmer - wont know if it really works until I run out lol.

I think you are doing the correct things i.e not riding until everything checked and doing some groundwork in the meantime.

Fingers crossed we can both get on with enjoying our lovely horses soon :) Before the end of the summer lol...
Click to expand...

Blimey, it sounds like we have had exactly the same problems!

Out of interest, what sort of "back person" did you get out to your horse, was it a pysio or a chiro or osteo? or none of those?

What sort of damage had the saddle done to his back?

I have been tempted to try a calmer, just to take the edge off of his spookyness/tenseness. Something magnesium based i would imagine would work best for paddy.

Thats fab news to hear the your horse is on the mend and things are getting better between the two of you. Im really hoping that with plenty of tlc etc and hard work and patience we will be riding out nicely by the end of the summer!
Fingers crossed things keep going well for you.
 
Magnitude from american equine, i get it from supplement solutions. there can be a deficiency in the grass at the mo and this is by far the cheapest way of getting it. about £19 inc p and p and it lasts 6 months.
I wasn't having a go about the tying up but you said about him pulling and sitting on his haunches etc and it just sounded a horrible scenario to me. I agree though that it may well make him feel panicky. I woudl work at getting past this bit.
I also wouldn't go changing the routine again, it will set you back. Just try letting him settle into this one first. It prob won't take too much longer.
Def sounds like saddle has caused a problem too and back person will help eradicate this pain problem at least.
Then you are one thing down, just a few others to get to grips with. That is how it is solved, bit by bit.
you will get there x
 
skychick said:
Blimey, it sounds like we have had exactly the same problems!

Out of interest, what sort of "back person" did you get out to your horse, was it a pysio or a chiro or osteo? or none of those?

What sort of damage had the saddle done to his back?

I have been tempted to try a calmer, just to take the edge off of his spookyness/tenseness. Something magnesium based i would imagine would work best for paddy.

Thats fab news to hear the your horse is on the mend and things are getting better between the two of you. Im really hoping that with plenty of tlc etc and hard work and patience we will be riding out nicely by the end of the summer!
Fingers crossed things keep going well for you.
Click to expand...

Sorry, only just seen your questions:

I used a Mctimoney Animal Practitioner who also does massage.

Not too sure about the damage yet.. a few days ago I decided to lunge him in his tack and think about getting on him - he hated his saddle (not the one that caused the problems) and he virtually refused to move - could barely get a trot out of him and bronced on the spot if I tried to make him canter. Take the saddle off and he will very happily go forwards and is working well. Really don't think his back is that bad that saddle actually hurts (but wont know for certain until back lady out next week) so wondering if it's some sort of 'remembered' pain? Going to try a sircingle etc and see how he reacts to that.

If it is remembered pain I will be posting on here as haven't a clue how to solve that :(

I quite like the idea of the Relax Me Calmer as it also works on their stomach - my pony can get loose droppings if stressed and I used to use Pink Powder so only have to use the Relax Me now. Magnitude is good too and cheap!
 
I'm afraid I haven't read all the replies so apologies if this has already been covered :o

It sounds from what you've said that he is being naughty when anticipating (and when actually being) ridden? ...to that end have you had all the normal teeth / saddle / back things checked?

It does seem that he has 'learned' that throwing himself around and napping intimidates you, which is something you will need to get to grips with- but in the first instance I would definitely rule out pain as the cause of his behaviour :)
 
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