HELP/ADVICE for very bad Lymphangitis.

clare1987

clare1987

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What do you do when you have tried every medical drug, hydro theraphy, and every massage technique and still you find your horse very lame and with a fat leg?

Last August my mare's hind leg became highly infected by a suspected black thorn out in the field. From then until now we've had good days and bad days.
I managed to bring her back into work twice but still the leg fills and is painful for her.

Has anyone in the horse world ever experienced severe Lymphangitis like i have?? I could write a book on what me and my horse have been through.
Any other advice other than what i have been doing (which is practically everything!) would be much appriecated

Thanks

Cx
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Hilton Herbs do a supplement that helped a mare I had that had it, not as bad as yours sounds, but it seemed to help her circulation, they have rebranded the products so I do not know what they call it, give them a ring they are very helpful and may even recommend a special blend.
www.hiltonherbs.com
 
Have the vets done cultures to ensure they are using the right antibiotics?

Also, do you have her on a good immune boosting supplement?

However, sad to say that some horses do not recover, and the prognosis can be poor.
 
I've been given that verdict.. But I've got till Monday to see if she improves.
Vet hasn't done cultures... What are they? Skin samples?
Yes she's on NAF D-TOX. But already above the loading dose everyday!
 
Cultures are swabs taken from the wound or the skin for bacterial culture and sensitivity; this allows the targeted use of antibiotics against sensitive bacteria.

Is she still on antibiotics?
 
Just come back and agree that your vet should have done cultures, if it is that bad you need to have the correct antibiotics to treat. I had a mare that did not respond to antibiotics she had cultures done and had a specific treatment to target a rare form of infection, she recovered very quickly once this was done, get your vet onto it asap.
 
Also global herbs do a range.

I find thistles and nettles to be very useful too :) ours is not lymphangitis but profuse oedema in varying locations (primarily the under chest area)
 
Walk walk and walk. Half hourly, hourly....keep her moving. We almost lost 2 to it...my bosses lightweight hunter being one of them. His hinds were the size of tree trunks from the groin area down. It was extremely painful for him to move them, but he had to to get them down. Eventually, they did go down but it took a lot of work and even now he can't be stabled for long periods of time as they swell again, even 5 years on from it. The second horse was an old owners hunter who came down with it badly on his fronts [uncommon...vets wouldn't have it that it was lymphangitis to start with and ordered box rest!], his legs literally peeled of and were awful looking - keep observant on any serum leaking from the skin. 5 days later he was finally diagnosed with it by which his legs were huge and the vet took him to his house and he literally lived on the walker most of the day and lived in the school with very small haynets and feed dotted around to keep him moving. Both horses were scarred permanently from it.

Don't put anything on or over it. Don't get it wet. Don't get it dirty. Leave them alone as much as you possibly can. When the legs were raw and falling apart on the 2nd horse, the vet did have to very very lightly bandage them [and I mean very lightly] as obviously they were open raw/risk of infection, etc and the actual swelling had virtually gone at that point. When they were raw, we did lather them in aqueous cream.

Basically. Keep her moving [along with anti-B's and any other meds the vets got her on]. I can't remember the injections either of the horses above had...but I'll try and find out.
 
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my 18 yr old tb gelding developed lymphangitis in both front legs , they were hugely swollen and oozing orange serum , vets prescribed injected antibiotics for nearly a month , poor horse was a pin cusion , we walked him 4 times a day at first then when legs finally dried up we turned out 24/7 also i fed him naff de tox which i kept hom on till he was put down two years later with an unrelated condition
i,m sure the turnout was the key to curing him , easier said than done with a clipped tb in mid january
 
Thank you all for your comments, it helps to know I'm not the only one out there! Mines a 22yr tb mare- 17hh, she's had this before a couple of times. Everytime they get an episode it leaves scar tissue... Let's see what happens by monday... X
 
I also agree with walking and try to get the fluid moving. Have you tried magnetic boots? They are great for increasing blood flow, as are nettles. (equimins do a nettle supplement)
 
I wouldn't personally put any boots on her at the moment.
Once they've gone down and after she's recovered, then sure try them as a preventative when stabled but whilst they're still swollen as badly as it sounds...I'd not be putting anything over the top of them at the moment.
 
Echo all the advice Christmassparkles have given you, but i have one more piece of information which I found vital when dealing with the worst case of Lymphangitis my vet had seen in 30 years of practice!!!!

In addition to all the other drugs they're using, make sure they administer diuretics as well, my horse had recurring lymphangitis, such that I'd call the vet, and start walking her, and they'd come and find us wherever we were in the dark - walking is critical. they'd give IV bute, A/Bs AND diuretics. When this concoction was given, the elephant sized leg reduced to near normal in 8 hours flat, and stayed down. She had it 4 times, with about 3 month intervals between bouts. I can't tell you what a relief it was when we worked out that the diuretics were the key to getting it down, and no further burst tissue/scarring occurred.

Push your vets to look into this if you're really breaking your heart over the condition, its such a trial for the horse if it won't subside.

All the best tomorrow.
 
No boots what so ever especially magnetic boots, i went down the magnet plaster route and the next day the leg was even bigger.

Update from over the weekend, She was walking out better on Sunday evening..:) So we decided to take her back for hydro (www.penn-equinespa.co.uk) as she was fit enough for traveling this morning, she'll be there till 28th Dec, hopefully that will kick start her leg again and push us into a more positive outlook.

We talked about Directics from the start, but she is a mare that doesn't drink alot so it would of been dangerous.

Thanks everyone for your support

Cx
 
Hope things improve for your mare. Our TB had a bad bout a few years ago we now give her Clivers (herb) every day, really seems to have helped her, if we run out her legs swell quite quickly.
 
alwaysbroke said:
Hope things improve for your mare. Our TB had a bad bout a few years ago we now give her Clivers (herb) every day, really seems to have helped her, if we run out her legs swell quite quickly.
Click to expand...

Yes i also fed my horse Clivers, along with Nettle and willow bark and Barley Grass Powder. Dena Schwartz is my horse's Holistic Therapist, best in the world! :) (www.animalaromatheraphy.co.uk) Dena is amazing at her job and really has helped me out in the past at finding alternate medicines.:)

Cx
 
Update on my horse.:)

After two weeks at the spa, where she had two spas and 7 hours turnout daily, I brought her home to my new yard on new years day.
Everything is going well so far. I'm riding her in walk for up to an hour and she is back to her normal self.

Thank you everyone that gave me advice.

Love my horse!
:)
Cx
 
So much has happened since i wrote last.... She came home from the spa happier but it wasnt long before she started going down hill.

We got in contact with an Equine Manual Lymph Drainage therapist and she came down last week and spent all afternoon talking to us about the lymphatic system and treated my horse with specialist massage and a compression bandage, the bandage came from 4 inches below her stifle to all the way to her heel. The bandage stayed on for 48 hours and when it came to taking it off it was like opening a present as the leg had shrunk to double the size of the good leg. Measurements were taken on both hind legs before the treatment and again after the bandage was removed. Up to 10cm circumference was lost around her cannon bone and even the good hind leg was smaller, (MLD works on the whole lymphatic system) The mare is walking perfectly and is happier wearing the bandage than without it.

I was amazed that no one had ever spoken of this treatment- my vet had very little knowledge on Manual Lymph drainage so she also joined us for the MLD session. I'd only heard about it through the article in the horse and hound a few months back.

This is the only treatment i would recommend for Lymphangitis and as much as i raved about the Equine Spa, i now wouldn't take my horse again as it just slows the lymphatic system down.

This is the website of the therapist thats helping us with our mare.
www.voddermld.co.uk

Rebecka has really lifted the cloud thats been above our heads for so long now and thankfully we have an amazing vet thats helped us throughout.

Happy days!

Clare xx:)
 
Please do not despair....I had a mare who suffered bouts for 15 years, eventually it was thought that the most influental fact was more circulation than infection, however obviously even if there is a slight infection and the circulation is poor then the effect is far more. My mare had blood tests and her heart checked, all fine, slight high white blood cell count though. We decided to try her on aspirin (in its chemical pure state) - and she lived to the ripe old age of 27, still had a few bouts, but many less than when at the age of just 11 it was once gonna be the end of her. This condition can be managed and worked with and my experiences with her were certainly eye openers for both me and my vet. Have a chat with you vet maybe, PM me if you would like further info. P.S Also fed clivers. :)
 
Luckily thats what MLD does- it helps with circulation which is what any horse with lymphangitis needs more than anything.
After the bandaging stage they then go into a compression stocking just like humans with lymphoedema!

Things are going the way i want it to! finally!!!!
 
My mare has a thickened hind cannon showing she has had lymphangitis before, and it generally fills a bit when she is resting. She has had 2 bouts of lymphangitis in it in the 17 years I've had her (never found the cause) and as she has medication for other conditions which block the uptake of drugs, treating her conventionally has been very difficult. However, I've had fantastic results with homeopathic Apis Mel, 30c. You need to dose preferably four times a day (two tablets) or get the liquid form and put it in their water. Once you can get them walking, they pump the lymph better and things generally clear up of their own accord. Apis Mel is great stuff to have around as it is also the best thing I've ever taken for insect bites and stings - beats antihistamine into a cocked hat and no side effects either.
 
Hi have just come across these posts and read with interest. I’ve been practicing MLD for horses in the UK and internationally for six years, but unfortunately to date there are only a few practitioners in this country.

There’s some confusion between two different conditions being described here, ‘lymphangitis’ and ‘lymphoedema’. There are several forms of equine lymphangitis, but by far the most common is ‘idiopathic’ an acute inflammation of the lymphatic vessels, usually caused by infection but sometimes due to allergy. It can appear similar in horses to cellulitis, inflammation of the dermal and subcutaneous layers of the skin, which can in turn lead to lymphangitis. The residual swelling often seen in the legs of horses which have had lymphangitis is often informally referred to as ‘chronic lymphangitis’ but this is inaccurate, the correct term is ‘lymphoedema’. This occurs when the lymphatic system is unable to function adequately to remove fluid and its contents from the tissues, and in this case is due to damage caused to the lymphatic vessels by lymphangitis. Fluid is constantly leaving the blood circulation, carrying nutrients to the tissues, and the only way in which this can be removed is by the lymphatic system (for a long time there was a very common belief that 90% of this fluid was reabsorbed by the local blood stream but this is now accepted as a misinterpretation). Unless a horse is experiencing another bout of infection or allergic reaction cusing inflammation in the vessels, it does not have lymphangitis.

The most common cause of lymphangitis is streptococcal or staphylococcal bacteria, and it’s very important that veterinary treatment is obtained as soon as possible, as the anatomy of the horse’s lymphatic system does make it vulnerable to infection. Waiting to see ‘what happens’ can result in much more severe symptoms and greater long term damage. If it doesn’t respond to prescribed antibiotics the horse should be tested for other causal agents as less commonly other bacteria are responsible, requiring different antibiotic treatment.

One reason why the leg(s) swell is because inflammation causes the blood stream to release extra fluid into the tissues. At the same time, lymph nodes will close to prevent fluid and its toxic contents from travelling further into the body until they have dealt with this. Therefore trying to force fluid out of the limb, with exercise, massage etc is counterproductive, may cause unnecessary pain and may result in serious systemic infection. It is true that horses with lymphatic issues shouldn’t be stabled if avoidable, and that the horse’s lymphatic system responds strongly to exercise, but it can only do so up to a point when damaged, therefore the amount of exercise the horse does should be appropriate for its individual requirements, more exercise does not always mean more improvement.

Because the lymph nodes need to contain infection, MLD is never used to treat lymphangitis! It speeds up the movement of fluid in the vessels and through the nodes which wouldn’t allow the immune system time to react. However, as soon as the infection or allergen is under control, MLD may be used to reduce swelling and limit damage.

A first attack of lymphangitis may not result in lymphoedema, but the affected lymph vessels will be scarred and no longer function as well as before. Other vessels take on more activity, but over years may become less able to do this, and lymphatic systems vary, in some cases horses have more vessels than others and therefore may never develop lymphoedema, but in others another infection or even inflammation from e.g. an uninfected cut or fly bite may cause sufficient further damage to tip the balance. Many horses whose previous history isn’t known and which appear to develop lymphangitis for the first time in later life may have had it when younger, without visible long term ill effects.

Manual lymph drainage is used as part of ‘combined decongestive therapy’ to treat lymphoedema, and for human and animal patients is the most effective means to manage this condition. This is an intensive series of daily MLD treatments followed by compression bandaging, which is applied from hoof to above knee or hock and is very different to a veterinary compression bandage, and exercise after application. Lymphoedemic skin is often fragile so this is also attended to. The intention is to treat until maximum reduction of the swelling is obtained, and then the horse is fitted with a support stocking, which is used to help maintain this reduction..

Unfortunately many owners don’t seek this form of treatment until other more familiar but ineffective ones (which may make the condition worse) have been exhausted, and this is detrimental to the horse, partly because the lymphatic system doesn’t only remove fluid from the tissues. For many nutrients to reach the cells, they have to be carried in the fluid from the blood stream on large protein molecules, which can then only be removed by the lymphatic system, but when this isn’t functioning correctly, these protein molecules are left behind in the tissues, and this is a much greater problem than excess fluid. Changes damaging to the tissues occur, including the development of fibrosis, which causes hardening and tissue swelling, prevents the blood and lymphatic systems from functioning adequately, impedes the action of the immune system, interferes with movement and can harbour infection. Horses with untreated lymphoedema are often in discomfort and may be depressed, and it’s striking how their demeanour changes when treatment starts.

Therefore it’s very important that oedema following lymphangitis is treated as soon as possible, before fibrotic changes have started and when the body can best utilise it. In these cases it’s possible to completely reduce any swelling within a few days. When fibrosis is present treatment will take longer which may be a financial concern, and cosmetically results will not be quite so good. Owners may feel confused because at the start of the treatment there’s usually an immediate significant volume reduction due to fluid being removed, and if fibrosis is quite subtle they may feel that in comparison to the way the leg was a couple of days earlier, this is an acceptable result, but if left untreated this fibrosis will continue to develop and cause significant problems. Similarly, when a very ‘big leg’ is reduced this can be quite impressive in comparison to it’s previous state, but it is important even so to try and eliminate fibrosis as far as possible. Because fibrosis will continue to form it’s also important to have regular follow up MLD/CDT treatments to keep this at bay, the support stocking helps maintain fluid reduction but does not treat fibrosis.

Lymphoedema is a permanent condition and currently there is no cure, but if treated quickly enough it can be brought under control and allow the resumption of a productive life.

It’s very helpful to provide the MLD therapist with an accurate history of the horse’s condition, as this can indicate the nature of damage, how long treatment may need to be and how successful the likely outcome. It’s not unusual for changes in the horse to creep up, e.g. holding a joint in a particular way, without the owner attaching significance to them but which may with more information indicate the presence of an infection or abscess. If these surface during combined decongestive therapy it may be advantageous as at least they can be treated, but CDT has to stop until it’s safe to continue, and this obviously slows treatment down, not least because the immune systems of horses with lymphoedema are compromised. So again, early treatment is better.

I’m always happy to answer queries about conditions affecting the horse’s lymphatic system, and there is more information on my website www.equinemld.com or pm me through the forum.
 
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