Help/advice please! long, but am wits end :(

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baby_dudley

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We bought my first horse just over 2 weeks ago. Absolutely fine when i rode her, in school and down a lane. passed vetting, but vet did say horse didnt want to canter, aparently back up slightly. Spoke to a couple of experienced friends, and they said this wouldnt be much of a problem. The horse was advertised as a safe hack.
on the 4th day, as suggested by previous owner, i rode her out for a quick hack, to the end of the road and back - however she had a hissy fit just at walk, started seesawing accross the road threatening to rear. took me easily 5 minutes to get her walking on. This finished me off as I have only been riding a year and made this quite clear to the seller.
On day 6 an experienced rider rode her out in the fields, walk trot fine, canter starts napping and threatening a rear again constantly.
On day 8 anopther experienced rider gets on and we had full on rears at everytime canter is asked for, and generally playing up in general.
I have approached the owner once on the phone and she said she needed more time to settle, which contradicted her first conversation saying ride her day 4 she'll be fine. second conversation with my mum and the seller, mum started with we have a problem with the horse, and she flew off the handle straight away saying we're accusing her of selling a duff horse when we hadnt even said nothing at that point (guilt sprung to my mind), we then sought advice from trading standards who have logged and said we have a case, and advised to write a letter. As she was advertised as safe hack and on all occasions we have this rearing behavior. Today we have a letter back saying she will not take the horse back.
Is this worth taking any further, i am so so upset as this was my first horse i have now lost my loan horse as i had to give notice, now im stuck with a horse i cant ride, plus if i try to sell her on i wont even get half of what i paid for her.

So so so upset, I feel this lady has ruined my chances of ever getting the right horse. Please, please , please any advice you can offer.
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The first two things that strike me are 1) 2 weeks is not always long enough for a new horse to settle properly and 2) she seems to have issue with canter...I would not be taking a new horse out into fields to canter so soon anyway.
I cannot say really whether you should pursue trying to get the women to take the horse back...not sure whether it would work out for you...have you asked for a solicitors advice?
Perhaps in the mean time you could take things right back to basics and try to build trust and a relationship with the horse by doing some in hand work...she may be feeling un-settled and nerved by the move still. It took my horse months to settle and build any sort of relationship with me.
Have you got a school to ride in or somewhere safe where you can do basic walk and trot work...forget canter for now. Have you had her back and saddle checked...perhaps it is hurting her? Also think about her routine and care...have you picked up from where her previous owner left off in terms of turnout and feed?
I would also say that the horse has probably reared before as it seems to be learned behaviour but there are ways to overcome that...it will take time, experience and patience though. I am sorry to hear of your troubles though and hope you come to some sort of solution that works out for all concerned though.
 
Also get the saddle checked. To be honest, no one can say how quickly a horse will settle into a new home, this combined with different riders, could just be unsettling your new horse. I am sorry you are experiencing these problems, but don't rush things.
 
yes i would say back,teeth etc.
i thought by law (dont quote me) but the seller has to take horse back if descibed incorrectly ?
but i would go down the check list first to make absolutly sure horse isnt in pain thus causeing that reaction !!
 
Yeah I agree, have her back and teeth checked and make sure her tack fits. Turn her out for a few days to settle in and get used to her new enviroment,some horses take time to adjust to a new rider so ride her in an enclosed school if poss with an experianced rider to help if there's a problem, give it time,it took my daughter a good year to get to know her pony,and for him to get used to her! good luck with her it will be worth it even if it takes a while
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I have not had her ridden since last week now, as even the 2 experienced riders have said a rearing horse is not safe. even my instructor is not happy to get on her it is that bad. its also the reverse in which she does before going up.
What has upset me the most is that i told the seller exactly what i have done - only been riding a year, and can be nervous still at times, and she has sold this horse to me that in my eyes now, she knew it reared. The horse has got it practsied to a T for it to of only just started.
 
Hiya, know the feeling of getting a horse back home that seems nothing like the one you tried out! Im pretty sure that if you bought the horse from a dealer they have to take it back if it is not as described. However, this does not necessarily apply to private sales as they are not regulated under the same legislation.
 
I think if i was experienced i would try to give her a chance, but with that behavior, she is not suitable a s a first horse, and i made this pretty clear to the seller at the time.
 
The thing I find odd is the vet's comment about the horse not wanting to canter.....very strange! If my vet was doing a vetting ,he would want to see this horse cantering.Was the horse purchased from a dealer and was it sold as a first horse,if so you can feel a little more secure if you go for legal action.I do feel for you,what should be a great experience is turning slowly sour,and is not what you had hoped for! Horse's do take time to settle my cob napped and was good at refusing to go foward,he had his back checked and teeth done,nothing was found to cause problems,it just took time for him to settle.....I do hope this will be sorted as cleanly as it can be and the out come works for every body,but more so for the horse's sake!
 
is there any chance that you are using a different saddle? it might well be that.
the vet should have seen it canter easily and happily, knowing it was for a novice... that part worries me a little.
you have a very good case, i think. tell her, very simply, that she knew you were a novice, that you stated this very clearly, that the horse is not suitable, and is playing up for experienced riders, and that you expect her to take it back immediately for the price you paid, or you will go to court. if it gets to court, as the claimant, you should win (see posting on this subject yesterday!) however, that's a nightmare you don't want to have to go through, i guess.
ask her to come and ride the horse and check that you are telling the truth, if you think it might help.
don't despair, but don't get hurt, if she won't take it back immediately! maybe just hack around at walk with a reliable friend and horse (who won't scoot off for fun or anything!) and build up a bit of a relationship.
in the meantime, make sure that any "experienced rider" you allow on her is not just the 'yard expert' but, ideally, a very secure, patient rider. otherwise they might do more harm than good.
don't despair about finding the right one, either, when this is all sorted out, if she does go back. there are lots of honest people out there, really. i always sell mine with a permanent buy-back guarantee, because i love them and want them to go to someone who will love them as much, and if they don't suit, i want them back!
i wouldn't mention Trading Standards and court until she has said she definitely won't have it back, as it might make her even worse...
good luck! so sorry you've had such a bad first experience.
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I feel really sorry for you as I had the same thing done to me a few weeks ago. I was told that the horse was suitable for a novice but I have since found out that he was sold because he bucked people off as soon as they mounted. I thought I had bought mine from a dealer but when I asked for my money back the dealer (in the West Midlands) told me that she had actually sold the horse on behalf of a client so I had no rights.

Please let me know if you manage to get anywhere with this. It is so depressing to buy a horse which you can't ride and it can destroy your confidence too. PM me if you want a chat. Annie x
 
yes i feel sorry for the horse too as she in practically everyones eyes at my yard have said she is unsafe and cant believe the seller let her go to me knowing of what she can do.
I dont think she is a dealer, but i think her husband has a racehorse business, if the horse is so flawless and safe, why such a big stink of taking the horse back?
Also and i kick myself for taking the horse now, she wouldnt let me have her on trial first. so should of gone with gut instinct
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It doesnt help im an emotional wreck about having to finish with my loan horse
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If it's a private seller I think you'd have to prove fraudulent misrepresentation.

The problem is a horse may change a lot in a different home, it's no-one's fault just a reflection of the fact that horses are living thinking animals. The horse may well have been suitable for a novice when it was in it's previous home & his then owner may have had no reason to think it wouldn't settle in a new home & continue to behave in the same way. That being the case why should she take it back? She may no longer have a place to keep it, she may have been selling because she couldn't afford it's keep there may be a hundred reasons why she can't or won't have it back.

By the way I'm nothing to do with this case but a friend of mine is in a similar situation & I know her horse was as she described it. She really isn't in a position to have him back - that's why she sold him - & none of us who knew him can believe what the new owners are telling us. This horse seems to have had a complete personality change in his new home.
 
If they are a dealer, you have rights under the Sale of Goods Act 1959 where the horse has to be of 'merchantable quality' and fit for the purpose stated.
If the dealer pretends to be a private seller, or working on behalf of a private seller, contact Inland Revenue and give them the details of the person and the money you paid...get them done for Income Tax if nothing else
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And contact your local trading standards for advice sooner rather than later....
Good luck
S
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Can only second teeth, back, saddle - also have you tried taking her out in company, with a nice slow, confident boy horse to show her how it's done?
If you're absolutely terrified, then it's all in, I guess, but tbh, it's not that long of a settling in period. How experienced are your experienced riders? Not happy to get on a horse which just 'threatens' to rear? Maybe she is taking the doo dah out of all of you. Also keep changing riders can't help. Can you afford to pay a calm, very very experienced rider, to come over and ride her daily for a week or two?
It does sound a bit like the lady who sold her to you is a bit uptight. Can you get a middle man to negotiate, as you're all obviously very close to the issue?
My instinct (unlike everyone elses so probably totallywrong!) is that she's having a laugh. How did the vet do her heart rate if she wouldn't canter?
 
yes we were with a 110% bombproof boy when she did it with me the first time. the riders are in my eyes exceptional good riders one being my instructor, who in my opinion and many others is amazing, the other an eventer, whom has been riding since she could walk.
It has got to the point where she is not threatening to rear, she is rearing. both riders have said there is something happening in the head. must admit i cant really comment on that as im not experienced enough.
 
DEFINITELY try and get your money back! She is not suitable as a first horse if she rears.

did you get a sales receipt?

you had her vetted. If she was unwilling to canter the vet should have made an issue of this!

Worst case scenario is you cant get a refund, then I think your options are, have her back, teeth and back checked.


If once everything has been ruled out, it is a schooling issue and not pain, then your options are to either sell her on as is she is, or pay someone to reschool her.
 
Agree with all the comments about saddle etc. I would add that 2 weeks is a very short time for a horse, especially a mare, to accept a new home/owner. She's probably upset and taking it out on whoever she sees as responsible. I would try giving her time, time, time. Work with her on the ground if she's frightening to ride. THere's little point in persisting with something that makes you nervous, because she'll pick it up straight away. However, if you decide on legal action, good luck. Meanwhile, you have got the horse, so why not give her a chance to come round?
(Sorry, sounds as if I'm criticising you, and I'm really not. I happened to be very lucky with my first horse, but I can imagine how off-putting this must be for you.)
 
Further to the comments other people have put on here, I know someone who sold a pony that sounds just like yours. It didn't rear with them, but did with the buyers. This person offered to buy the pony back at the same price but the buyers wanted to 'teach her a lesson' so they sued her through the Small Claims Court and won. The outcome? She had to buy the pony back!

Sound like judges tend to support the buyer in these cases, so...if I were you, I'd ring the seller and say you are giving this horse a further month to settle in. Give it the benefit of doubt and have it checked over. If nothing found wrong, get someone else whose not at all nervous to ride it for you, just plod around. If it doesn't improve, contact the woman and give her an ultimatum. Either buy it back or you'll sue her.

I feel that most horses take a minimum of a month and max of 6 months to really start 'acting' normally, and have been through testing times with most previous horses, though mostly napping and bucking, not rearing.

Horrible though it is, I think they do it partly because they are nervous and partly trying it on. Having said that, I wouldn't want to ride it.

Hope you can get it sorted.
 
QR -

The fact that the horse was reluctant to canter at the vetting is a clear indication that something was amiss - and quite frankly you should probably not have bought it without further investigations being done. Was it a 5 stage vetting or 2??

It could be that the horse has a bad back - which in most cases is totally treatable. Or it could be that the horse is just a through and through napper - which is not so easily sortable, especially for a novice rider.

In your shoes I would have my vet out to give the horse a thorough examination. If it is a bad back - then I would treat it and sell it on.

If it turns out to be (in your vet's opinion) a behavioural problem then I would go back to the seller and tell her that she either takes it back, or you take her to court. (See Patches post from yesterday).
 
you haven't said if the seller is a dealer (in which case sales of goods act means they ahve to take horse back) or 'private' sale - in which case do a goole for every phone number you have for the seller

lots of sellers pretend to be private when they are really dealers - if you find lots of other horses for sale under that phone number then attack on the 'you are really a dealer' front - via a solicitor letter if necessary (costs not that much - and less than livery for a month) - and get her to take the horse back as she is 'dealing'

if really a private sale then what vetting did you have done, because if the vet passed a horse that wouldn't canter there is legal redress against the vet - now whilst you won't want to sue your vet = it might just get the vet to re-examine the horse for a reduced fee - and focus on the canter/back/rearing issue

until you've done those don't waste time on saddle etc - as if your instructors are as expeienced as you say they would recognise a very badly fitting saddle that was bad enough to cause this behaviour.
 
What a shame for you, you poor thing.

I have just recently been in the situation where a horse was sold to me in good faith, on a buy it back deal, and we had a few sticky moments but horse is generally good and as described. They do, indeed take time to settle in and will get frightened.

But this one.... is something else. With an experienced rider on, it should toe the line, especially as its sold to a novice as a novice ride. It should go fine when ridden, at least.

I totally agree and back you up all the way with not getting on it again.

You are of course going to be once bitten, twice shy when you finally get out of this and look for another horse. it is not a pleasant thing to do at the best of times, and you have to decipher so much lying, covering up, etc. As far as a trial period goes, that is not usually possible, unless you are a friend of a friend or something.

Do you think the horse may have been sold as its not pleasant for the owner any more? It may well have a brain tumour, poor horse. It may well have fractured its pelvis, even sadder. But that is not your fault, none of it is.

Be strong, get through this. Seek trading standards advice, get a solicitor to write a letter for you, (not huge money) threatening legal action unless they take this horse back and give you a full refund. It was not as described, and that is a legally binding contract. When I sold, I was very careful not to make a statement that is untrue in the script, as it is, indeed, binding. Will your experienced rider friends back you up as witnesses?

You must do this very quickly, I have a feeling two weeks may just be the cut off for returning goods that were not as described, or cool-off period, whatever your legal clause will be.

I wish you well and wish you strength to fight this out.
 
Surely the instructor would have noticed if the saddle wasnt right before she got on? I mean if it was bad enough for her to rear as I see that as pretty extreme behaviour. Although saying that I used to once ride a horse that if the girth nipped him at all would shoot backwards and then lie down - that freaked me big time.
If the horse was for a novice I would expect it to settle in a matter of weeks as surely it should have a more laid back temperament? My boy can take a few weeks to settle - but he is not a 1st horse. I would say month munimum to see what all her habits are, then if she is like that after that then see about taking action. But get all the checks everyone is mentioning.
Was the Vet your vet or the sellers? I would be going back to them and asking them to take a look at her back.
 
Sorry to hear this has happened. I took 4 years off riding and never thought Id have another horse, due to a nappy naughty horse I had.
Now I have a horse whose brilliant to hack out, even though he's had his moments, now I am more confident and as a result can handle him if he's ever naughty.

I can sympathise totally with you and hope you can get it sorted soon.
 
If the horse rears get rid of it now before anyone has an accident.

Take the seller to the small claims court.

Next time buy a horse locally where people know it's character and history.
 
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