Help, am I in the wrong?

[tristar]

So your YO and thus yourself decided to take an unproven exracer across a grass field and turnback on yourself?

Uh huh ...

Let me guess - your reaction to the horse taking off (I highly doubt it bolted) was to grab hold of your reins and pull? That is what we do when we want our horses to go faster and work harder, especially on turf where 90% of racehorses spend their lives galloping.

If you aren't confident your horse won't be either as it sounds like the type that takes its cues from its Rider.

Don't go hack through the middle of fields. Stick to the edges, school in corners so your nearly always on a turn and for love of god don't panic and rip your horses mouth to shreds if it takes off again.

What you do do when this happens is stand up in your stirrups, don't lean forwards, push down into your heels so you can balance and not lean on the horses mouth, don't lean on your knees as you will just get dragged forwards. Put your hands and reins onto the horses neck without a tight hold and speak gently to it. Woooaaahhh steeeeaaaaddddyyyy. Long, drawn out soothing words will calm you both down. Panicking and shouting will make it far, far worse.

If all else fails then break its jaw. Not literally! We just call this method a jaw breaker. Come up out of your stirrups, plant one fist in the neck with a short rein and haul ass on the other rein straight back and up towards you as hard as you can and don't let go. The horse will 99% time turn its head and slow down because you are essentially taking away its direct field of vision. DO NOT let go until you have returned to a sedate canter or trot. If your arms get sore then swop them over quickly. Don't jab them in the mouth that just pisses them off, solid constant hard pressure.

not dig at you elf, but what thing to have t do to a horse to get it to stop, and yes i do know it is the method

but it must be the very opposite to fair training and decent treatment of the horse

doing that is way too violent

yet another exposure of what is happening out there to horses

and how racing is bringing its own castle falling down

and horses who are mainly young, too young.

 

[J&S]

Your yard owner was in the position of "escort" for you and your horse. It is generally understood that any one escorting a ride (of any amount of riders ) should ride at the pace and level of the least accomplished horse/rider combination. She should have given full attention to where she was taking you and how to make the route safe and confidence giving for you and your horse.
You were not "in the wrong" for doing what you did but you do need to stick to your guns and not allow any one to bulldoze you into situations, which, we all know, can be very hard in certain circumstances. However, if any one was "in the wrong" it was your Yard owner.

 

[tristar]

Your yard owner was totally irresponsible and could have caused a serious accident not only involvig yourselves but also other third parties.
I would also suggets that whoever has rehabilitated your race horse has not done a good job - if they had truly rehabilitated it you should be able to ride it by itself or in company at the pace you want it to go at and it should most certainly not loose it's bottle and zoom off towards home.

do you not think it just a reflection of the methods used in breaking race horses

the ones who take on the ex r horses have to deal with what went before, the habits established when the horse was backed.

some proof that correct early training is worth every moment, and that it is not ALWAYS so easy to re train as it might a first appear

 

[Shilasdair]

do you not think it just a reflection of the methods used in breaking race horses

the ones who take on the ex r horses have to deal with what went before, the habits established when the horse was backed.

some proof that correct early training is worth every moment, and that it is not ALWAYS so easy to re train as it might a first appear

Racehorses are trained differently to eventers. Eventers are trained differently to dressage horses. Dressage horses are trained differently to carriage horses.

Just because it's different, doesn't mean that racehorses are not properly trained - in fact they are usually very safe in traffic, good at hacking in company etc.

You have to understand, Tristar, that Elf was describing 'last resort' methods of stopping a racehorse when it does NOT respond to its initial thorough training.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

not dig at you elf, but what thing to have t do to a horse to get it to stop, and yes i do know it is the method

but it must be the very opposite to fair training and decent treatment of the horse

doing that is way too violent

yet another exposure of what is happening out there to horses

and how racing is bringing its own castle falling down

and horses who are mainly young, too young.

99% of the time the horses know where the end of the gallop is and slow themselves down and pull up with no interference from the rider. Breaking jaw is a complete last resort and it works on all horses. Racehorses are not trained to this method of stopping. As I had previously said - drop paw and speak to the horse first.

It depends what yard and what type of racehorse you have as to how much it already knows. Our horses regularly go walking, trotting, cantering and bombing about fields at the farm as well as stubble fields on the way to the gallops. We trot across to go to the gallop, walk back home. We have some horses that jig jog, some that don't like being left behind and need to be in front but how is that any different to normal horses? It's not really. The only real difference between a racehorse and a normal horse is we teach them to go faster and work harder the more of a hold we take of them and to slow down we relax the reins. Totally backwards compared to what all other horses are taught.

This lad is a good 17hh of solid animal, a light weight hunter in the show ring. And yet he is perfectly well mannered and can go where you want, when you want. He isn't great in front because he is a lazy toad but he will go in front you just need to kick like hell to keep him moving ???

 

[Meadow21]

So your YO and thus yourself decided to take an unproven exracer across a grass field and turnback on yourself?

Uh huh ...

Let me guess - your reaction to the horse taking off (I highly doubt it bolted) was to grab hold of your reins and pull? That is what we do when we want our horses to go faster and work harder, especially on turf where 90% of racehorses spend their lives galloping.

If you aren't confident your horse won't be either as it sounds like the type that takes its cues from its Rider.

Don't go hack through the middle of fields. Stick to the edges, school in corners so your nearly always on a turn and for love of god don't panic and rip your horses mouth to shreds if it takes off again.

What you do do when this happens is stand up in your stirrups, don't lean forwards, push down into your heels so you can balance and not lean on the horses mouth, don't lean on your knees as you will just get dragged forwards. Put your hands and reins onto the horses neck without a tight hold and speak gently to it. Woooaaahhh steeeeaaaaddddyyyy. Long, drawn out soothing words will calm you both down. Panicking and shouting will make it far, far worse.

If all else fails then break its jaw. Not literally! We just call this method a jaw breaker. Come up out of your stirrups, plant one fist in the neck with a short rein and haul ass on the other rein straight back and up towards you as hard as you can and don't let go. The horse will 99% time turn its head and slow down because you are essentially taking away its direct field of vision. DO NOT let go until you have returned to a sedate canter or trot. If your arms get sore then swop them over quickly. Don't jab them in the mouth that just pisses them off, solid constant hard pressure.

Sorry to sound ignorant but i would be unconfident to 'break her jaw', this does seem a severe (potentially cruel) method and I would be concerned the horse would just change direction to escape the pressure or spin sharp and risk falling? Sorry if this sounds stupid but I have never heard of this method of stopping, unless I have misunderstood it.

 

[Shilasdair]

Sorry to sound ignorant but i would be unconfident to 'break her jaw', this does seem a severe (potentially cruel) method and I would be concerned the horse would just change direction to escape the pressure or spin sharp and risk falling? Sorry if this sounds stupid but I have never heard of this method of stopping, unless I have misunderstood it.

It's just a variation on the normal way of stopping a rather keen horse - bridging your reins and pulling on one. You need to pull one, not both, so that the horse can't set its neck against you and keep going.
You can also use a similar method to do ever-decreasing circles, until your horse is slow.
And to prevent rearing in a nappy horse, but that's a whole new discussion.

But for you, Meadow21, if you are not confident in what you are doing with this - don't do it.

 

[Caol Ila]

I call it a 'one rein stop.' It's your emergency brakes. It's probably not very pleasant for them, but if they are tanking off, you do what you gotta do.

 

[stangs]

we teach them to go faster and work harder the more of a hold we take of them and to slow down we relax the reins

Completely off-topic (sorry OP), but with this method of training how does a jockey "hold back" a horse who wants to go faster than it should be going during a particular stretch of the race?

 

[tristar]

Racehorses are trained differently to eventers. Eventers are trained differently to dressage horses. Dressage horses are trained differently to carriage horses.

Just because it's different, doesn't mean that racehorses are not properly trained - in fact they are usually very safe in traffic, good at hacking in company etc.

You have to understand, Tristar, that Elf was describing 'last resort' methods of stopping a racehorse when it does NOT respond to its initial thorough training.

what a load of tosh

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Completely off-topic (sorry OP), but with this method of training how does a jockey "hold back" a horse who wants to go faster than it should be going during a particular stretch of the race?

Most drop the bit and settle into a rhythm others that pull hard the jockeys hold hard with both hands and end up in a battle of wills. These horses will listen and go the pace asked but make it hard for themselves and the Jockey and end up wasting valuable energy doing this. Sometimes they end up swinging the horses head from side to side to try to break the hard hold the horse has, sometimes nothing works and they just get clean tanked off with.

Tristar you seem to have a bit of a beef against racing. Not everyone agrees with everything we do - hell I don't agree with a lot of it! But I know I would far rather be a racehorse than someone's pampered pet at home with a well meaning but fluffy owner.

 

[stangs]

Thank you, Elf, you’re a w-elf of information

 

[Shilasdair]

what a load of tosh

I do love a well-considered and clearly articulated debate.
Sometimes though, I'd just settle for correct use of upper and lower cases.

 

[Gingerwitch]

elf hit the key point for me, contact equals speed its hard to relax and drop the contact to stop when your new to racers, but stop they do.

I second moving yards your yard should be a supportive place not one for games and one upmanship.

 

[tristar]

Most drop the bit and settle into a rhythm others that pull hard the jockeys hold hard with both hands and end up in a battle of wills. These horses will listen and go the pace asked but make it hard for themselves and the Jockey and end up wasting valuable energy doing this. Sometimes they end up swinging the horses head from side to side to try to break the hard hold the horse has, sometimes nothing works and they just get clean tanked off with.

Tristar you seem to have a bit of a beef against racing. Not everyone agrees with everything we do - hell I don't agree with a lot of it! But I know I would far rather be a racehorse than someone's pampered pet at home with a well meaning but fluffy owner.

nowhere has anyone mentioned the obvious things for op to use, standing martingale, lunging before riding, long reining, careful assessment of the horse on the day before deciding how to proceed.

there is a reason for taking hold, or why the racehorse takes hold, the point of balance is so far forwards when galloping flat out the horse leans on the bit for support, the best jockeys know how to settle the rhythm and support the balance of the horse when racing, and not disturb the fluidity of the momentum, which might lose or win a race by a fraction, often have seen a horse stumble or lose balance and not recover during a race

the tb world is like a pyramid, the top 10 percent in palatial luxury, the rest well, they have to take their chance

the basic pre training of all horses requires the same fundamentals to be successful be it racehorse or kids pony, dressage horse.

i`ve seen tb`s backed after 3 days prep, and horses out working who look nothing more than foals

most horses know when you pick up the reins `something` is about to happen, its not specific to racehorses, most horses pull against you when you pull against them

its bizarre how the modern pentathlon rider is slated on this forum, yet breaking jaw, and booting a horse to get it move is not challenged.

none of this is personal, just observation, i worked in dog kennels, when i left school, what i saw still haunts me to this day, perhaps i feel the need to challenge the way animal`s are used in the hope of making their living experience less traumatic, well and in this case the people who take on ex race horses

 

[J&S]

nowhere has anyone mentioned the obvious things for op to use, standing martingale, lunging before riding, long reining, careful assessment of the horse on the day before deciding how to proceed.

I think, judging from the original post, that the poster might need some one with experience (like an instructor/good YO) to help make these decisions and to implement them. She does not seem to be in the right place to get decent guidance.

 

[Shilasdair]

nowhere has anyone mentioned the obvious things for op to use, standing martingale, lunging before riding, long reining, careful assessment of the horse on the day before deciding how to proceed.

OP, don't use a standing martingale on an ex-racehorse, to stop it. They restrict the movement of the neck, so if the horse stumbles when galloping, he won't be able to recover his balance. Very dangerous.

Stick to advice from your instructor (qualified, insured and first aid proficient) rather than randoms on the internet.

 

[tristar]

a correctly fitted standing martingale i use on horses that tend to try to run through the bridle, i have been using them for 50 years, mainly on big green thoroughbred horses

the idea is not to use while galloping, but while hacking to prevent just the sort of situation you found yourself in so you never get into the runaway out of control thing.

the idea is of a preventative measure which is there if and when needed

like a lot of tack it needs to be understood in its application

 

[Shilasdair]

a correctly fitted standing martingale i use on horses that tend to try to run through the bridle, i have been using them for 50 years, mainly on big green thoroughbred horses

the idea is not to use while galloping, but while hacking to prevent just the sort of situation you found yourself in so you never get into the runaway out of control thing.

the idea is of a preventative measure which is there if and when needed

like a lot of tack it needs to be understood in its application

what a load of tosh

(Sorry to be so rude - couldn't resist )

I think the issue might be that YOU intend to use a standing martingale whilst not galloping, but the OP's OTTB may not be on the same page - and it's dangerous.
There is no way to fit a standing martingale that doesn't restrict the movement of the head and neck - or there would be no point to them.

Anyway, I'm going to leave it there. The OP has been thoroughly advised to continue with her instructor - and not to listen to randoms (myself included) from the internet or her crazy YO.

 

[tristar]

the whole idea of the standing mart is so the horse is kept under control and does not get to the galloping off out of control!

the purpose we use them for is when the horse lifts its head the mart comes into play and prevents the horse from getting up speed and completely avoids the awful thing that happened to the op

you might not believe it but i post things on here in the hope of helping someone else

if you learn something, and i think it is something important you can pass it on, why not, op asked for opinions
i`m using a s mart on a hot baby now, i don`t want to pull his mouth and it stopped him running through the bridle, with some horses that tried to go on more than was comfortable the s mart has cured them in one day! so i took it off



what happened to op could have been avoided completely

 

[Pearl7]

Hi thank you for everyone’s advice. I think I would first like to say I bought my mare from a reputable retraining yard after she has had a full years retraining, so I have not just brought a tb strait off the track. I guess I should have been more prepared/learnt how to stop an ex racehorse, but I didn’t realise we were going to a open space or she would take off. At least I know how to now too! I have contacted my instructor about everything going on and luckily she is going to make room on her private yard for me to go there, so hopefully this incident will never happen again. YO has since apologised for her reckless behaviour however I am still leaving the yard. Thank you for all the support and kind messages!

 

[Gloi]

Th

Hi thank you for everyone’s advice. I think I would first like to say I bought my mare from a reputable retraining yard after she has had a full years retraining, so I have not just brought a tb strait off the track. I guess I should have been more prepared/learnt how to stop an ex racehorse, but I didn’t realise we were going to a open space or she would take off. At least I know how to now too! I have contacted my instructor about everything going on and luckily she is going to make room on her private yard for me to go there, so hopefully this incident will never happen again. YO has since apologised for her reckless behaviour however I am still leaving the yard. Thank you for all the support and kind messages!

That sounds a good outcome.

 

[Caol Ila]

Hi thank you for everyone’s advice. I think I would first like to say I bought my mare from a reputable retraining yard after she has had a full years retraining, so I have not just brought a tb strait off the track. I guess I should have been more prepared/learnt how to stop an ex racehorse, but I didn’t realise we were going to a open space or she would take off. At least I know how to now too! I have contacted my instructor about everything going on and luckily she is going to make room on her private yard for me to go there, so hopefully this incident will never happen again. YO has since apologised for her reckless behaviour however I am still leaving the yard. Thank you for all the support and kind messages!

Perfect outcome.

 

[MagicMelon]

Why would you listen to your YO? Ultimately its your horse and your choice what you do. I would be the same as you, I would go back to basics especially if you're now (understandably!) very nervous of hacking. Why on earth would you take her opinion into account? Its none of her business!

 

[Hanno Verian]

Th
That sounds a good outcome.

Hi thank you for everyone’s advice. I think I would first like to say I bought my mare from a reputable retraining yard after she has had a full years retraining, so I have not just brought a tb strait off the track. I guess I should have been more prepared/learnt how to stop an ex racehorse, but I didn’t realise we were going to a open space or she would take off. At least I know how to now too! I have contacted my instructor about everything going on and luckily she is going to make room on her private yard for me to go there, so hopefully this incident will never happen again. YO has since apologised for her reckless behaviour however I am still leaving the yard. Thank you for all the support and kind messages!

I'm really glad for you! You obviously care deeply for the welfare of your horse and are doing everything you can to give him/her a second career. You have done so with your eyes open, you have sought advice and assistance and listened carefully and implemented it. I wish there were more owners like you!

Good luck and keep us posted with how you get on