Help backing/breaking a 'tricky' 4 year old warmblood - South of Bristol

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Hello

We're looking for help backing our 4 year old chestnut gelding (warmblood).

He's currently on breaking livery at a lovely eventing yard (often recommended on this forum :D) south of Bristol and the yard owner and I have agreed to look for extra help.

We're looking for someone experienced in backing 'tricky' horses as he has a large panic button (even though he's been brought on very slowly) and he is VERY athletic ... so his bucks are rodeo-quality :eek:. I fell of twice last weekend (and I'm quite sticky) when he panicked on the lunge, and we don't want it to become a habit (and my back can't take any more!). On the positive side he should be able to jump well once we get him sorted :).

We're looking for someone experienced (preferably not hundreds of miles away) and we're happy to consider someone coming to the yard, or sending him away for a while.

Thanks!
 
go back to basics, lunging and long reining until he/she is ready to be backed, in other words horse is listening to the person on the ground and moving with the long reins and not against them, and lunging on both sides in 3 paces and going forward through gates, out the yard and back again, then put a saddle on and long rein some more then lean on its back, then get on its back but lead it around even in a small circle a few times to start with, then let it walk next to a person with someone on its back, then let it go alone with a rider on its back and be patient. This should take 3 weeks anything less will be a rushed horse that could show problems later on, i.e. bolting (not saying this will always be the case but it is a ruler to go by).
 
Hello

We've done all the above exactly as you said ... and actually taken 7/8 weeks over it not 3. We've taken it really slowly ... we need someone who's used to tricky horses and has a sticky bottom ...

He's fine with me sitting on him as well (actually quite relaxed) but if he panics at anything (plastic bags being shaken etc) he's got quite a buck.

Thanks
 
She is very far from you but absolutely perfect for your boy I think. She's called Emma Massingale and lives on the Devon/Cornwall border. PM for more details if you're interested.
 
Sorry to jump in - please could I ask where the yard is? (Please feel free to send a message? I am fairly new to the area and looking for somewhere to move my horse too) Thanks!
 
He sounds like my old boy, though his was not fright. It took 3 years to settle my boy up with an amazing instructor who was firm never once hit him but very patient. It's not easy when you keep getting ditched but we looked at it always finish on a good note and even if we only got 2 minutes extra good work it was two mins more than the previous day.
Hard work and patience was the key.
Am now in bristol and had the boy I now have well on loan on Hinton he done a lot with my current boy but he was no were near as bad as my old one was. It might be worth enquiring to see if they could help they did do schooling livery
 
Also to add I can not edit on the mobile my instructor rode my boy once a week and give me a lesson once a week so we were both asking for the same things and using the same riding style and methods
 
What you're doing is not working - so you need to look at different ways! At what point does he buck? Does he tense up BEFORE he bucks or is it purely as a result of something spooking him?

Warmbloods CAN be dippy - we've got 7 breakers on the go at present and the only one giving REAL trouble is 1/4 Warmblood (1/4 traditional cob and 1/2 Welsh Section D!!) She's fine some days and others - for no apparent reason - pi**es off bronking for Wales!

To find the answer - and the right approach - means analysing every step - what happens before - what happens after! Only then can you hope to come up with an alternative approach that will work.
 
Hello
Thanks for your replies.

He only bucks/goes mental if he's spooked. He can trot around quite happily and then something (like a plastic bag) sets him off. I think when he's spooked his 1st reaction is always to bolt, so my weight naturally moves backwards and then he's spooked by me on top.

He's a bit of a panicker at other times as well - that's why we're looking for someone to come and help us ...

Thanks ...
 
Tooster said:
He only bucks/goes mental if he's spooked. He can trot around quite happily and then something (like a plastic bag) sets him off. I think when he's spooked his 1st reaction is always to bolt, so my weight naturally moves backwards and then he's spooked by me on top.
Click to expand...

Right - so he's a 'runner' rather than a bucker - the bucks are in response to you dropping back a bit in the saddle (have you had back and saddle fit checked??).

This is relatively easy to tackle although if you haven't started 'right' you might have to go back a few weeks. It is ESSENTIAL with this sort of horse that he is taught voice aids to A Level standard! (Personally, I won't get on a breaker until it will walk, trot, canter and WHOA faultlessly to voice command! I like living!) When a client comes to try out a horse we have backed, we demonstrate its effectiveness by waiting until they are trotting happily - and then we say 'WHOA' from the other end of the arena. Horse inevitably stops so fast the owner nearly falls off. (But at least they know they CAN stop without pulling on the reins! :D)

He may already be voice perfect - but I suspect not. When he IS, then go back to riding him on the lunge using a slightly forward seat and hanging firmly onto your neck strap (and I HOPE you use one!) Practice those 'WHOA's' - using the voice AND a firm pull on the neckstrap (NOT on the reins!) If he takes off, the forward seat and the firm hold on the neck strap should ensure a buck doesn't follow. Pull on the neck strap and say 'WHOA' and as SOON as he stops, send him forward again.

I would keep him on the lunge practising 'WHOA' (and of course the upward transitions too) for at LEAST two weeks. And once you and he are confident in this method of stopping, start introducing some 'spooky' things around the place. NOTHING extreme. Small challenges first!

This works! To prove it, have a look at this video, taken today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSGOAF2cRMc

The mare is a sharp little TBxWelsh Cob. We've had her just under 3 weeks and the first two weeks were spent getting her voice perfect. She was ridden on the lunge for the first time last Thursday - and today was her first time off the lunge. She may well be 'easier' than your chap - but the 'method' works with all. The key is the voice commands - the horse doesn't have to be kicked into action - or pulled to stop - because almost everything is done on the voice. And because the rider is constantly talking - the horse keeps listening - and is therefore far less likely to spook!

I don't know anyone down your way (and judging by the number of horses we get from South of Bristol I'd say there is a shortage :rolleyes:) You're a bit far for me to pop over - especially as we're full house at present - but I would suggest you try the above and see how it goes! If you're still having trouble in a couple of weeks we could probably fit him in then - once the current batch have gone home.
 
Hello there
Thanks for your help, in response to your queries ...

He is very responsive to voice commands ... 'whoa' on the lunge works every time, and trot/canter is spot on. We'd been practising that for 6 weeks (7 days a week) before we even started leaning on him :-).

We did loads of leaning across (from both sides) until he was very relaxed. And we did lots of being led around in small circles and then get off/get back on. We carried on until he was very relaxed - we know he's nervous so we've been giving him loads of time.

I was still only on the lunge (and only trotting, no cantering) in the roundpen - I was talking to him all the time (I'm a chatty Welsh bird!). I had a neck strap on and I was hanging on as much as I could when he bolted and then started bucking. When he started bucking yard owner and I were both 'whoa-ing' to no avail. It's like he goes blind in panic. I don't want to get on and get bucked off again as then he may start learning that bucking works.

I will talk to yard owner tomorrow and we'll try to think of a plan ...

Thanks again ...
 
Mmm - just a thought.

I HATE round pens for backing. They are too small and make the horse feel 'confined'. Some horses - and I have had two Warmbloods and a couple of TBxID's who fell into this category - WILL buck if they feel 'confined' - whether by being led (when the rider is up) or by fences that are too close. Perhaps he's panicked, started to run - then felt 'trapped' by the round pen so bucked!

And perhaps he hasn't TRULY accepted the rider - because the round pen inhibited him from feeling 'free' to do something about it. So the tension mounts - until he can't stand it any longer. So what you have is severe 'predator on back' syndrome that has been inhibited by the confines of the round pen.

There is a point - when you're working with a backer - when they TRULY relax and 'submit'. Sometimes it's very early on in the process (particularly if the horse has been VERY well handled as a youngster.) With others - particularly those who haven't had a lot of handling as a baby - it can take much longer. This chap clearly hasn't reached it - and I would hazard a guess that it's the round pen at least partly to blame. Round pens are fine with 'easy' horses - you can make progress that bit quicker, but - and it's a BIG but - if the size of the round pen inhibits them from 'fighting' at the point you'd prefer them to fight at (like when the saddle first goes on) then you're storing up problems!

Of course, without seeing your chap and exactly how/when he reacts, I am only theorising! We like a challenge - so if you DO decide to send him somewhere, give me a call.
 
Tooster said:
Hello

We're looking for help backing our 4 year old chestnut gelding (warmblood).

He's currently on breaking livery at a lovely eventing yard (often recommended on this forum :D) south of Bristol and the yard owner and I have agreed to look for extra help.

We're looking for someone experienced in backing 'tricky' horses as he has a large panic button (even though he's been brought on very slowly) and he is VERY athletic ... so his bucks are rodeo-quality :eek:. I fell of twice last weekend (and I'm quite sticky) when he panicked on the lunge, and we don't want it to become a habit (and my back can't take any more!). On the positive side he should be able to jump well once we get him sorted :).

We're looking for someone experienced (preferably not hundreds of miles away) and we're happy to consider someone coming to the yard, or sending him away for a while.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Trying to find the PM button on this forum, but can't! The lady who's yard I'm at may be able to help you. She's super experienced and extremely calm and patient. PM me if you want her number.
 
Alex Peternell (eventer) is good with quirky horses, he's based Ford Farm (Hinton) near Bath...I've never known anyone with so much super glue on his rear end!
 
sounds silly and i know hes yound but if he is good on lunge i would maybe try luging in a pessoa on the easy settings but what i found with my spooky tb (foud out completely by accident as was only using it for his back) was that when he spooked of bucked he found it very difficult because of the rope by his hocks and after a few failed attempts at hi favorite: spooking, little buck and run he didnt try it nd now hes just stopped alltogether really... funny one but actually works wonders : )
 
The one trendybraincell is the same one I mentioned on my post above in Hinton its between Bristol and bath so not to far from south Bristol
 
Send him to Janet George. She's close to you and by all accounts does a fantastic job - as several forum users on here can attest to.
 
Some horses can be tricky!

Google James Roberts (James Roberts Foundation Station) He is down in Wiltshire and having seen many 'problem horses/breakers' go to him and come back brilliant! He is on Facebook as well!

Do not be put off by the NH part especially as its the 'P' word! I HATE the P word!!!!

However, James is fabulous and has a brilliance with young horses! Need to point out that James is a qualified Farrier! He started down the 'alternative' route as wanted to help 'difficult horses' get shod/trimmed without having a meltdown! And years later he has got his own place down in Wiltshire-hacking to die for and you can also stay in the cottage as well!

One drawback! He is usually BOOKED up!
 
Hello

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who helped on this thread a while ago :) ... we sent him to very experienced person and he's doing really well :-). I saw him yesterday and he's popping small fences while backed and I'm having a ride next weekend (I'm very excited!).

Apparently he'll probably always be a bit of a 'worrier', but at least now when he worries he trusts the person on his back and doesn't go mental :-).

Thanks again ...
 
trendybraincell said:
Alex Peternell (eventer) is good with quirky horses, he's based Ford Farm (Hinton) near Bath...I've never known anyone with so much super glue on his rear end!
Click to expand...

I second that from what I have been told. He is doing my friends horse because I refused to try.....it's 17.2 and way too big and strong for me. I did some ground work with it when it was a foal and a yearling and I was not really strong enough by the time it had reached two.

I have never heared a bad word about him and his sticking power is verging on legendary. Ask Alex.

Opps ...should have read entire thread befor posting....glad he is sorted...best of luck.
 
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if you get problems try lake view stud sent mine there and after three weeks he came back a saint and looked superb they are near bristol airport
 
Something has gone wrong somewhere! By the time a horse is ready for backing he should be shock proof. If of a nervous disposition then I will spend as much time 'sacking out' as I do with actual working them.

I will never back a horse in the arena or certainly never a round pen as they have nothing to think about but a rider on top.I will back them in the yard and ride them straight out on the roads and tracks (where they have been driven or led from another horse) They have a lot to look at and don't think about the rider.
I am lucky in that from the mounting block it is all steep uphill for about a mile so, by the time they have trotted to the top they are to puffed to be thinking about much else.
 
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