HELP!! Buyer in a mess

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lapetitebruyere

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Please help me. I entered a payment plan for a horse with a reputable dealer. We have almost paid half the horse off and he was supposed to be delivered to me more than a month ago - the seller keeps promising to deliver only to find a reason not to. We have never ever missed a payment and we have been professional about the whole situation. The problem is that the owner is only putting a contract into writing now and is now including things that were never agreed to - like keeping the horse for 8 months and charging us livery for his stay, all whilst saying we must pay insurance and are liable for vet bills - all while someone else is riding him "to keep him ticking over". I was stupid to pay the deposit before seeing the contract, but I assumed that everything we had discussed would be reflected in it.

It seems that the only thing I can do is take her to court, but that seems such a scary thing to do. :(

Right up until night before last, I believed I was going to finally see my boy this weekend. Heartbreaking. And we are talking a lot of money - she has had thousands from me, not hundreds. :(
 
I am not much help, but you should of got a signed contract sorted before handing over any money. What a horrible situation for you & I do hope you get is sorted asap.
 
Yep. Trading standards and CAB say court is the only option.... I guess if everyone is telling me that, then it has to be. :(

Going to be messy and unpleasant... and the worst thing, it didn't have to come to this, never mind the heartbreak of losing the horse too.
 
Are you a member of the BHS? They are really helpful with legal issues. But as I said on the other post, my husband has promised me 5 mins this evening to look at this and offer some generic advice. He cannot be specific - no lawyer can - without a formal engagement but hopefully he'll be able to help you.
 
amymay said:
Just pay what you owe for the horse, and sit down with the seller to agree the additional monies being asked for.
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I would think that this needs to be tackled the other way around! Sit down and discuss, THEN pay the money!

You can explain that you have been advised to take the dealer to court ( small claims court? shouldn't cost you but you can't be sure you'll get your money even if you win) which you would rather not have to do. You can say you have also been advised to go to TS ( which you should do anyway, since others might get caught in the future as you have been).
Maybe, if you try the calm and negociating approach you can work out a deal. I am sure you will pay over the odds as it seems that you have fallen foul of an unscrupulous dealer (please pm me the county and name if you feel you can).
Good luck.
 
Get a loan from a bank, pay for horse in full & take home. The bank may well charge interest, but that's cheaper than livery fees & possible legal fees.
 
Ha, I've just read the replies to this issue on my friend's post...

I appreciate all your "just pay for the horse" comments, but this person contacted ME after she found out I was looking for a horse and said that she had done payment plans before and could offer me that. I don't see what is wrong with two adults mutually agreeing on that - doesn't mean I can't afford to keep horse etc, but I am not going to get into that debate.

Neither am I expecting the horse to be kept for "free", BUT the original deal was deposit secures him and he moves to me. I took this seriously, found out costs of livery at yards suitable for me and the horse and then agreed to the repayment rate - which is a significant rate by the way - this horse has cost more than several thousand pounds and he is already half paid off after three months - I am not looking for an easy deal or anything. BUT - him staying with her and me being charged livery for a horse that I cannot visit or ride realistically due to distance and work was NEVER part of the deal or I would not have signed up for it.

I am trying to get the hold of the remaining amount, but life is not as simple as that - I have just moved countries for my job and sorting out mortgage etc - which is why I thought, yeah, we can pay this horse off, that works fine for us.

I have kept to the agreement, she has every penny she ever asked for - but the goal posts are constantly changing and it looks like unless I bow down and pay another £2 k or so, I either lose money already paid or have to take her to court.

I know it was a stupid mistake to make, but when you pay a deposit and expect the horse 2 weeks later and have texts etc to confirm this, I assume the contract will be put in place as two adults agreed.

If anyone has any constructive advice, I welcome it with open arms. If you just want to tell me how stupid I have been or not to expect something for nothing, I will happily fill you in with everything this person has said and done and perhaps you will give me a fairer hearing.

Thanks.
 
I have to say that I would expect to pay livery until the bill was paid. There are loads of credit cards that have 0% interest and will for a charge pay the cash direct into your bank account. perhaps this is an option?

Best of luck.
 
That is a fair enough point about expecting to pay livery - but she is charging a silly rate and if I had known this was going to be part of the "deal", then my monthly repayments would not have been as high as they are.
 
There was supposed to be no livery to her as he was supposed to come through to me as soon as deposit was paid. It is only now that she is charging livery as she has decided to keep him and basically she can ask for whatever amount she wants as the horse is a 5 hour round trip away, so I can't exactly manage DIY! ha. And what she is charging me is double the amount I had factored in for livery charges where I am - like I said in an earlier reply - the monthly repayments are quite big - I went for the most I could afford after budgeting for livery, insurance etc, so that the horse was paid off as soon as possible.
 
Until the horse is paid off and back with you then the horse is still her responsibility.

Either

1. She lets you move the horse home and continue payment (with contract) and all costs incurred (and any future ones) are yours.

2. She retains ownership and deals with all costs of the horse until the full amount has been paid, at which point ownership changes.

You wouldn't put a deposit on a horse and expect to pay livery while trialing/vetting.

If either of these don't suit her then full refund and walk away.
 
Sounds like a complete and utter mess and that you have acted pretty naively :(

I think the ONLY course of action for you is to take legal advise and then play hard ball with the 'reputable' dealer.

Good luck, I hope it works out for you
 
Thank you for a positive reply!! :) Means a lot.

We have asked for a full refund - I've even been too nice and said look, let's walk away from this before it gets nasty and I'll even cover cost of livery from August until now so you're not out any money and she laughed and said no way.

Even this morning, her latest tactic is that I can have him, but her choice of yard in my city - the 2 she has picked are a good 90 minutes away with full livery as their only options! It's just mental! Yesterday's excuse for me not having him was that Trading standards advised her against it!

Tomorrow's excuse will be.....???
 
Thinking about it a bit more, it just screams more than dodgy to me.
Would be interesting to explore criminal implications? Fraud / obtaining money by deception kind of angle.

Is the horse even still at the dealers ..........
 
I have never before heard of a dealer letting a horse go after a deposit was paid. I have heard of dealers offering to take credit card payments, but that is all.
To say it is an unfortunate situation is an understatement. Join the BHS Gold membership today and get proper legal advice. Don't rely on a forum.
 
I think it was unrealistic of you to think they would let you move the horse once you have paid a deposit especially with you being new to the area however do understand that its what they said they would let you do

I honestly think the best way forward is to pay the rest of the money, if you are credit worthy then its easy to get credit much as I realise thats not an ideal thing to take on

The next best thing I guess is to get some livery quotes and find the average of those and offer the lady that as livery with your quotes as back up, she has you over a barrel and she knows it unfortunately

I think you both need to decide what the situation is here, its either your horse making you liable for livery but with a discussion on this and possible moving yards or its her horse and her responsibility. If you cant sit down and sort this out properly then it doesnt bode too well for what will happen when she has ALL of your money. I wouldnt go down the legal route until you have sat down face to face as it will just make her dig her heels in more (take a friend as a witness)

Either way do make sure you agree that contract and get receipts for money already paid or ask for a refund and walk away

What a mess and I know you dont want to hear blame so I wont waste my breath but what a thing to take on when you have so much going on in your life already
 
I am more than willing to hand this over to a solicitor, but went to one today and they sent me to CAB which was a complete waste of time.

Need to find a solicitor willing to take the case on and take it from here.
 
lapetitebruyere said:
I am more than willing to hand this over to a solicitor, but went to one today and they sent me to CAB which was a complete waste of time.

Need to find a solicitor willing to take the case on and take it from here.
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You need an equine solicitor, one who understands the complexities involved.
Look in the H&H adverts there are usually a couple of adverts there.
 
lapetitebruyere said:
Thank you for a positive reply!! :) Means a lot.

We have asked for a full refund - I've even been too nice and said look, let's walk away from this before it gets nasty and I'll even cover cost of livery from August until now so you're not out any money and she laughed and said no way.

Even this morning, her latest tactic is that I can have him, but her choice of yard in my city - the 2 she has picked are a good 90 minutes away with full livery as their only options! It's just mental! Yesterday's excuse for me not having him was that Trading standards advised her against it!

Tomorrow's excuse will be.....???
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GO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE,Shes obviously trying it on.Go to Trading standards and tell them watch shes doing and what she told you.Also tell her you are going to seek legal action if she doesnt oblidge.
 
Hi,
Is he the horse of your dreams? Could u find something roughly just as nice with the money u get back off her ? If the answer is yes to horse of your dreams see a solicitor regarding a breach etc showing texts and that u had offered other alternative but she is being up reasonable and being as difficult as possible etc etc. if you just want your money back ( my personal opinion is to go this way) state
 
I would contact a specialist equine solicitor: I know Darby's have an equine division, but google it, there are probably loads more!

I would also google the person's name and trading name and see what gems that throws up (if you haven't already) - it may be that the person is already known to trading standards etc, or that there are other people in the same boat.
 
I'm going to be really blunt here because you're in a bit of a mess... You want her to stick to the original agreement, she isn't going to, so get over it. What it will cost in legal fees and livery until its sorted, not to mention the stress, is likely to be more hassle IMO than buying the horse outright.

You're currently in a weak position: you haven't got the money, you haven't got the horse and you haven't got a contract. You also have someone else riding the horse whilst you are liable for vet fees etc. Not a good combination IMO as there's no incentive to keep the horse sound. I would come to an agreement with seller about payment, that enables you to go and collect the horse this weekend, find the money and do it. It may be more than you was hoping to pay but if you come out of it with the horse you wanted, for minimum hassle, isn't that better than potentially losing what you've already paid and more (in legal fees etc)?

You can still report her to whoever or maybe even take her to court, afterwards, if you believe she's charged you wrongly for livery or gone back on the contract therefore costing you interest fees on a bank loan etc.
 
lapetitebruyere said:
Well, being a law abiding citizen who wouldn't dream of breaching a contract, it should not have been too much to take on.
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But the point is you didnt have a proper contract

You could argue that the original discussions formed a verbal contract but then if that was watertight you wouldnt be asking a forum for advice would you?
 
He's a great horse which is why I was willing to pay a significant amount of money even in today's crappy market, but NO horse is worth the hassle she is putting me through, so yeah, what I want is money back.

I am trying to source the rest of the money to pay her and be rid, but a personal matter stands in the way - and no, it's not credit rating or owt - it is paying a contribution towards a family member's hospital treatment.

Like I said earlier, if the original deal had been upheld, financially everything would be fine and I am sure both parties would be happy. I can't continue to pay for blood tests etc every time she decides he is coming my way only for her to go back on her word each time.
 
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