Help - Deep school, how can I fix it???

[Henbug]

Background - school and surface was put in 6 years ago but was hardly used (probably no more than a handful of times in total). I believe it was put in properly using experienced people, the surface is sand and rubber (probably more sand than rubber) and it drains very well into a ditch running along the side.

So, the problem - It rides very very deep, its now been in full use for about two months (full use being about 4 hours a day about five times a week) it is harrowed weekly and the corners pulled in. I had hoped to see some impovement with use but so far have seen very little.

At this stage I'm wondering if harrowing it is actully making it worse not better because its churning it up, but somehow I have to harrow the track in. I don't have use of a roller for it, is this what it needs? Would more rubber in it help, even though the sand is deep? Would a different surface on top help? Or do I need to be patient, keep riding in it and it should get better? Problem with that is I'm worried about my horses legs being ridden in deep sand and I feel its detrimental to their schooling slogging through it.

I know its probably not a staight forward fix but anybodys experiences of a similar thing would be helpful. Thanks

 

[immoralorchid]

Bump i have the same prob so would appreciate some advice

 

[WelshTilly]

Bump i have the same prob so would appreciate some advice

Ditto i have the same problem with the school ive inherrited altho mines just sand!! Anyone who can offer any practical solutions out there???

 

[Flight]

Hi, I recently had an arena built and had the same problem, it was really deep. Felt like riding in a sand pit! After much back and forth with the company who did it eventually they got the company out who had delivered the sand and it turned out there had been a mix up and the wrong sand had been used. They have now dug it up, re done with the right sand and now it is great! Could it be a similar problem that the wrong kind of sand has been used?
Can't help with any other solutions I am afraid.

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

sounds like you have the wrong sand. harrowing will tend to make the surace loose, you need to level it (not stir it!!) it will ride deeper if dry. i would suggest watering it for a few days with a sprinkler, level it (an old gate with a sleeper on top does an ok job) then roll it and see if that helps. try to vary your work so that you dont track it round the edge.

 

[VLHIEASTON]

Well, I'm afraid I think it's just the way sand is. I am on my 2nd sand surface, the best sand you can buy, Redhill sand, and that's even worse than the sand I had before.

We've tried everything, harrowing made it much worse, so we then just levelled it with a proper leveller specially bought,watered it, made no difference to how it rode so then we hired a roller after lots of rain fall, even that didn't help, it's such fine sand that it's like flour... You can't drive anything on it as the wheels just spin, even when it's wet or dry or damp ....When it's dry, watching it blow away into the air and it drifting across to one side is just heart breaking.

So far, the 2 different sand surfaces I have had have cost me more than 10k, just the 2 surfaces alone.

I am ebating whether to just give up on it or spend the 20 k on a waxed surface.

I won't be spending any money on trying to sort out the sand with felt or carpet or rubber slices, as if that still doesn't 'cure' the problem I will still be back to square one again, for the 3rd time.

 

[Henbug]

Hi, I recently had an arena built and had the same problem, it was really deep. Felt like riding in a sand pit! After much back and forth with the company who did it eventually they got the company out who had delivered the sand and it turned out there had been a mix up and the wrong sand had been used. They have now dug it up, re done with the right sand and now it is great! Could it be a similar problem that the wrong kind of sand has been used?
Can't help with any other solutions I am afraid.

This could be the problem but sadly because I didn't put it in I've got no idea. Sand does seem quite fine though. Hopefully its not whats wrong, think it could be a very expensive problem to solve!

 

[Henbug]

sounds like you have the wrong sand. harrowing will tend to make the surace loose, you need to level it (not stir it!!) it will ride deeper if dry. i would suggest watering it for a few days with a sprinkler, level it (an old gate with a sleeper on top does an ok job) then roll it and see if that helps. try to vary your work so that you dont track it round the edge.

This sounds like a good plan. I've already been watering it to try and help which did seem to make a small difference. Will see where I can find an old gate and give that a try. Roller might be harder (and more expensive!) to get hold of but if the gate alone doesn't help enough I'll see if I can get someone around with one. Thank you!

 

[Lucinda_x]

Our surface at the yard was riding very deep but after some watering and leveling it now rides very well apart from when a certain livery lets her horse gallop in circles on the lunge and digs a very deep circle! Our school gets leveled most days

 

[Henbug]

Well, I'm afraid I think it's just the way sand is. I am on my 2nd sand surface, the best sand you can buy, Redhill sand, and that's even worse than the sand I had before.

We've tried everything, harrowing made it much worse, so we then just levelled it with a proper leveller specially bought,watered it, made no difference to how it rode so then we hired a roller after lots of rain fall, even that didn't help, it's such fine sand that it's like flour... You can't drive anything on it as the wheels just spin, even when it's wet or dry or damp ....When it's dry, watching it blow away into the air and it drifting across to one side is just heart breaking.

So far, the 2 different sand surfaces I have had have cost me more than 10k, just the 2 surfaces alone.

I am ebating whether to just give up on it or spend the 20 k on a waxed surface.

I won't be spending any money on trying to sort out the sand with felt or carpet or rubber slices, as if that still doesn't 'cure' the problem I will still be back to square one again, for the 3rd time.

This sand might be slightly better than that, it doesn't seem to blow away when dry but then it is mixed with rubber which probably makes a difference. Do you think a higher percentage of rubber would help or would it be "pouring good money after bad", so to speak? Will give levelling with a gate a try and if it doesn't get somebody in to have a look at but really don't want to be spending that kind of money on it (who does though!)

 

[Henbug]

Our surface at the yard was riding very deep but after some watering and leveling it now rides very well apart from when a certain livery lets her horse gallop in circles on the lunge and digs a very deep circle! Our school gets leveled most days

So there is hope then! Thank goodness Hopefully watering and leveling will work.

 

[VLHIEASTON]

I really don't know the answer, my Redhill Surrey sand is the best equestrian silica sand you can buy and everyone here will tell you that too.

So, if I've got problems then I'd be very interested to hear if you manage to sort out yours.

Maybe mine's just too fine?

 

[Clippy]

Add some kind of fibre. You can get what is essentially carpet waste so it's pretty affordable and this should be harrowed in to the top. It tends to bind with the sand and stop it from moving about as much. It also retains moisture which again, stabalises the surface.

My friend has a fantastic surface which is fibre and sand, though not the carpet fibre as it's a lot finer (it reminds me of cocunut matting hairs) and that never moves.

I would also try levelling with something simple like a pallet or small metal gate, just to skim the top and not keep getting into the depths. Hopefully, the wet weather will help the surface as dry, hot spells play havoc with mine!

 

[Booboos]

First thing you should do is analyse your sand to see what you have. Sand suitable for equestrian use should be small particles, e.g. 0.25, and square. If your sand is round and/or large particles it will be tough to sort out.

Ideally the sand should have been allowed to compact before the rubber was added as the rubber should sit on the top layers and not get lost in the bottom of the sand. Stop harrowing it as that merely disturbs it and pushed the rubber into the sand. Try something like the Arena Mate (sensibly priced leveler with an adjustable height) which should help a lot to compact and will pull the sides in. As for watering you need to water it frequently depending on the weather. Loads of watering and levelling should help provided you have vaguely the right type of sand.

For sand arenas that are still too deep a fibre additive is a really good idea. We recently added Clopf to a large particle sand arena and it has made a huge difference. However I am not sure how fibre works in addition to rubber because the fibre has to be rotivated into the top 5-7cms while the rubber has to stay on top. I would talk to a manufacturer of fibre additives before going down this route.

 

[VLHIEASTON]

Hi, I've just had a very long chat with Martin Collins re this..

Basically...we can try adding the Clopf of similar with the chance of throwing good after bad and being the last go at it, or, go for the big spend and have one of the cheapest waxed surfaces.

Even with just adding the Clopf, you would still need to water it in dryer times as it must be kept moist or it won't work....now, if you fancy doing that then fine, but personally I don't neither have the time to be doing that or the inclination whatsoever.
This what they have just told me.

 

[showjumpingfilly]

I used to work for a building company that did build a few arenas for people.

You need to water it - a lot.

Ideally use your metal gate (companies like chapelstone have their own equipment designed for going over the surface to level with so may be worth investing in one)
Then water.

It would be better if you could roller it to pack it down a bit and then keep watering it. If u can avoid using it for a few days whilst u water it then all the better.

Then for a while i'd level it and water it everyday until the sand has settled.

It sounds like you could do with some more rubber - current yard is the same, but for now i'd get the sand sorted.

You could try turffloat fibre but not sure how that mixes with rubber best to ring a few companies and ask!

 

[Goldenstar]

You must level everyday and I would invest in a leveller that's the best thing I did for mine .
Are you using a chain harrow if so try it up side down.
My leveller for not a top of the range expensive the company often has adds in H and H
I did roll mine using a light lawn roller when I got one but the leveller did the trick .
And you will have to water when no rain
I did add more rubber to mine and fibre after ten years and it did improve the firmness.

 

[Cedars]

Why don't you stop guessing, and ring an arena company? We used Maple Arenas and they were fantastic. Explain the problem as ask for their solution! Then you get a guide on price etc.

Our school is red hill sand base, then red hill sand mixed with combi-ride, then a rubber crumb top, put in by Maple and it's fantastic. We never ever water it, not once and it's had 5 days off work this winter as it was frozen.

Ring them and see what they say. You will throw away money if you guess without really understanding what's going on x

 

[VLHIEASTON]

That sounds great Cedars, both Maple Arenas and Combi-ride have just been this morning.
Think I'm just down hearted understably.

 

[Little Squirrel]

Have you used a chain harrow on it? The gallop at work used to be very deep when it was harrowed but rides much better with just the chain harrow used on it. Also once a year it has a few tonnes of shredded tampons (I'm not dure of the fancy name but this is what they are) Clean I might add! They hold the moisture in and the going is almost always perfect now.

 

[SonnysHumanSlave]

Ditto i have the same problem with the school ive inherrited altho mines just sand!! Anyone who can offer any practical solutions out there???

We have a very similar problem. Athough we end up with deep holes also.

 

[scarymare]

Its nothing to do with the type of sand. Most (unless woodfibre) surfaces are laid far too deep with too much on. Get a digger to scrape off sand to a depth on about 3 or 4 inches (trust me on this). Store it somewhere if you can and then ride in it and see how you get on. If you need to top up then do so. My neighbour and I have schools and she went for 4 inches of just sharp sand and is delighted. I used 3 but mine is mixed with 'fines'. Both are super, mine is now 7 years old!

 

[VLHIEASTON]

I've just had Combi-ride mixed in, yes it's much better, but it's still a little deep.